Db Br 147 Discussion Thread

So here's some screenshots of dtg's next loco dlc

 

What is a "DB BR Class 147"? Either Class, or BR, they effectively mean the same thing.

 

Weird habit of mine just changed the title now.

 

Hopefully this comes with new Dostos, would seem crazy to use the same old lifeless ones with a brand new loco.

 

If the interior of the 147 and 187 are similar in real life I hope they include the machine room too like the 187 (assuming Skyhook are okay with sharing it)

 

What other Doubledeck coaches do you expect? It runs with the same ones that we have in-game in reality. And for the Intercity 2 Twindexx sets you'd need the appropriate 147.5 in Intercity livery to match.

 

It’s the quality of the current Dostos I have an issue with, new ones built to TSW6 standards would be nice.

 

So this is basically another Class 146/185? (Traxx series)
I can see why the guy was complaining in the other thread that the German routes are the same thing over and over again.
Not arguing that is "wrong."
Modern German railways may in fact be this lacking in variety.
I'm just saying it's understandable if this looks just like 6 other locos already in game.

 

So whats the difference between this one and the other dozen we all ready have. Is an expert loco.

 

Yes it is. Recycling locos and sell them as a seperate loco like the Br 147 looking exactly the same like the 146 and 185 is just a shame.
Especially if this loco looks and functions the exact same as the TRAXX 2 generation. Bombardier making that a whole new TRAXX 3 generation while they are 100% the same to the TRAXX 2 is also weird.


Jokes aside.
How can you look at the 147 and at a 146 and say "yeah, they are the same thing because both are TRAXX locos".
We finally get a somewhat promising TRAXX 3 after years of having the 187 as an "AI only" quality loco and then i still look at posts like this.
Continuing with saying that "modern german railway may in fact be this lacking in variety" based on what you said before is just the cherry on the top.
Please tell me your post was only meant sarcastically.

 

You said you made a joke, but what was the joke?
Yes it looks near identical to 6 other locos of virtually the same model in game.
It's the "Class 66" meme of Germany apparently.

You're well within your rights to want every single subvariant of the Traxx series, but it doesn't magically make them much different or interesting to others.

This isn't being marketed as some sort of expert level quality loco.
Just a slight reskin.

It's arguably LESS of a difference than the Santa Fe C40, the SD-40-2 or the Class 20s that were just released and people complained they were "just reskins of stuff we already have in game." I get it. You like the Traxx. That's fine.
I like the SD-40. But I won't bend over backwards trying to justify yet another SD-40 as something totally new and necessary.

You can't even sell this as a new livery because it's the same BR red as everything else.

 

You did not get the point.
The 147 is a whole different TRAXX generation than the loco you say we have 6 variants of.
It is in no way similar to the TRAXX 2 generation. The only other loco thats a TRAXX 3 is the 187 from Skyhook Games and that ones quality is at a state where it not existing at all would be better.

Following your logic, the 193 Vectron is a reskin of the 1116 Taurus.
My joke was me saying they are similar while they are clearly not.
The 147 is a complete new loco and its just very frustrating to see that people just make things up to make it look bad.

 

You're kind of proving my point, Vinn.
Let's just agree to disagree on this one.
Your definition of "very different" and mine are very far apart.
It's not a "completely new loco" by any means. It's a slight variation on a previous model.
As I said, like MANY other locomotives.
I'm not sure why you're so personally invested in this being some sort of groundbreaking new revolutionary new thing.
There are (according to even railfan pages) no difference in performance and "slight differences in external body panels and software."
It's a slight evolution.
That's fine.
People can want a Class 47/1 and a Class 47/4. They are "different" too in details, but we're not pretending they're a "totally new design."

My criticism stands. It's just small tweaks on the same basic design over and over, just like you see in the UK or the US.
That's just modern railroading.
The rolling stock IS very homogenized compared to 30 or 50 years ago.
When I said that people are tired of seeing the Class 66 but it's realistic because that IS the majority of UK freight locos... that's true.
Just as it's true that a HUGE number of German trains are of the Traxx family... and all very similar to one another.
That's ACCURATE.
It is a very standardized industry now.
No reason to get upset or frustrated.
It's just how it is today.
Even the liveries are boring as it's all the same red one over and over.
If you like that, then more power to ya.
Just saying you won't make a lot of sales on this as a "revolutionary new loco" because it's not.
It's more of a gimmick loco that's a reskin of others, much like the Class 20 with a new radio and paintjob for the Nuclear Cargo Pack is considered a "new loco" just to sell copies. It's NOT significantly different than the other Class 20s we have in game, but they are selling it like it is, even though it has just a paintjob, new headlight, and a non-working radio on the dash.
Kinda like how the 147 is pretty much another Traxx with a few tweaks as a gimmick.

 

What did i expect? That facts are useful in a discussion with someone saying the numbers 1,2 and 3 are the same? Silly me.

 

You're moving the goalposts.
I admitted they are "different."
Just not VERY different.
You refuse to admit the Traxx 3 is an evolution of the Traxx 2.
Which is silly because even their own materials say that.
Be upset if you want.
It's just weird you'd be upset to the point of lying and insulting others over minor tweaks in a video game.

How about you list every difference between the two and let people decide if it's "significant?"
So far you have given no evidence this is any more substantial than the Class 20 or Santa Fe "new loco" reskins.

Lying and insulting is not changing the fact you haven't given any evidence to support your case.
It just makes it look weaker.

Try adding facts and making your actual case for a change.

Since you insist there's a ton of details we're missing, then please list them all in full detail so we can see that for ourselves.

 

This is not modern German railways, this is 2010 German Railways. Modern German Railways has loads of different EMU and DMU, that they don´t want to build....and old German railways has loads of amazing stuff anyway. They have been sticking with the 2010 theme ever since TSW started. This is the real problem!

 

i will take it.
put a white livery
with white dostos
and i will be happy

 

Lol, "it has the same color, so it must be the same". It's different from almost every part of exterior to the way how control levers work.

I'm just chiming in to quote Lukas from yesterday's stream, confirming that the model is made completely from scratch, nothing was reused from the infamous skyhook dlc.

 

The Sound Recording from the DB 147.5 from the IC2 in Dortmund

 

?

 

It was confirmed by Lukas

 

Crazy thing to say as we just got a 140 today in a 2000's era route

 

You got a 140 in a mid 2000’s route. Very little about the route (other than DTG saying so) reflects it in that era.

Toms point is especially proven with this route.

 

The 140 is actually a different design not a slight evolution of an existing model we have in game 6 times already.
Remains to be seen whether it will be available in a large number of layers on other routes.
If it were so you can replace the more common overused stock, that would be great.
If not.... yet another wasted opportunity for variety.

 

I'm actually curious in what state of quality it will be released.
But still a great edition!

 

The 140 is very similar to the 110 which we already have 2 variants of. Only things slight different are Transmission, brake system and cab.
Following your explaination on why the 147 is just a slightly altered copy of the 146, the 140 is also just a slightly altered copy of the 110.
Now you say the 140 is a completely new loco and not a slight evolution, which makes no sense and shows that you dont have any clue about what you're talking about.
You calling me a liar and saying i need to add facts to my arguments (which i did) is just hilarious.
I didnt notice you using any facts, so why dont you start by naming some of the huge similaritys you talked about? Should be easy if you already have documents from Alstom to prove it.

 

Isn't the cab of a 147 more similar to 193, rather than 185?

 

I literally asked you to provide details for what was different, you couldn't give any and replied that I need to "prove" what is the same?
That's the reverse of how debate works.
Now go back and list what is new and unique about the 147...since you are the one that insists it's necessary because it's different from what came before.
Stop deflecting and just provide those details you think are new and unique.
Make your case already.

 

I am truly sorry for not speaking english perfectly, but its fine for me if you feel better making fun of it. Same goes for calling me "Vinn" .....for some reason. (the second n was magically summoned ig).

I dont think you understand the situation.
You went on here and said its just another version of the 146/185 Traxx 2.
Then I tried to explain to you that what you are saying can be set equal to someone saying blue and red are the same color.
I also said that Alstom/Bombardier was not just feeling funny the day they introduced the Traxx 3 generation as a completely new loco series.
My first "detail" you are asking for is the difference between the number 2 and 3, which i should not need to explain to you.
I assume you think your examples of comparing the class 20 versions, or whatever other class, are valid arguments.
Again, 147 and 146 are not the same loco class, making your examples completely irrelevant for this debate.
If i would name everything thats different between them I could simply just post the handbook of the 147 in here.

As long as you dont say that the ICE 4 is a variant of the ICE 1 because both are ICE im fine with accepting your opinion.
Still want to hear your facts and details now that you were so desperate for me repeating mine.

 

Yes. Identical...

 

Blah blah blah.
Didn't answer the question at all.
Failed to support your position.

Ya know if you had used all the words you have posted thus far trying to avoid the original point, you'd already be done by now.
Just list what's new and unique about the 147 that sets it apart.
It's not difficult if it's so easy to see.

 

For history and development of modern electric locos from the major European manufacturers have a look at - https://www.elektrolokarchiv.de/

 

All here...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alstom_Traxx

 

For the British people here, this is like arguing the Class 87 and Class 90 are the same loco, the differences are in fact quite a bit more pronounced than between the 86 and 87.
You have a completely redesigned can, new side walls that are supposed to mount printed tarpaulins with ads similar to truck trailers (which never really happened, so you just have the weird corrugated looking wall).
They also have new electrical equipment, which you can hear from the very different acceleration sounds.
In terms of the cab, it has a completely new desk with controls that are much more similar to the Vectron than the 146. The electric brake is integrated into the throttle, and you have a single train brake lever, as well as a reverser based on three buttons, etc.
I'm not going to lie, I'm kind of surprised at this DLC, the 147 isn't exactly common with DB Regio, wouldn't make much sense to go to the effort of creating it unless there maybe are plans for an IC2 or a Berlin based route.

 

Pretty sure it’s in prep for an IC2 at some point. It makes perfect sense to utilise this variant first, and then develop the rest of the IC2 later. From a business perspective it makes more sense this way around then the other way around…

 

How similar is this to the 187 aside from the body? Could a modder use this as a base to, if not fix, at least improve on the 187's shortcomings, as it were?

 

The high entry ones. And tbh, I don't think it's a lot to ask for. It's not like it's an entirely different loco, it's just a modified 3D model. Nothing about how the train operates changes. If they want to do the IC2 at some point (which I assume they will, it's a very low-hanging fruit at this point), they will have to get around to doing them anyway.

 

probably. I hope itd be possible to mod the (hopefully good) sounds of the 147 to the 187. for the other issues of th 187 like lights and safety systems i dont know, there was a big enhancement mod in the works that skyhook supposedly wanted to work with, but as of now nothing much came of it.

And compared to the 187 the 147 is pretty similar except for passenger stuff and some technicalities.

 

it does fit on Stuttgart Heilbronn very well (apart from the era) as it was used there with Dostos and n wagen before it came to Berlin.

And yes opening the can of " they all look the same " may not be the best for a uk forum with class 40,45,37 , 86/something, 87 all the same boxes

 

The 147 and 187 are almost identical, just different variations of the same loco, so I just don't see how this justifies its own release. It would make sense for it to be with a route DLC, or in a different livery with IC2 coaches, but just as locos, they should be - or have been - a joint pack.

 

The traxx AC3 F140 & P160 has many difference it's not only a "remake or upgrade " i hope that's this will be something included

 

I think I speak for many who are interested in the 147, when I say thank god this had nothing to do with the 187 development.

 

Agreed. The 147 looks too much like the 187 I already own. Can't see myself seeing making a purchase of the 147 unless it's like 90% discount or so. I mean, it's just the loco, right? No new rolling stock or anything, right?

 

I've seen a few people mention the poor class 187, but surely the 187 being substandard makes it less justifiable to charge for the 147 separately, not more?

 

I dont know why people complain about it being similar to other locos. Of course its going to be similar, all trains are similar to each other. No loco is vastly different from another. Its all the same premise. One might be older but that's really it. That goes for every train ever really.

 

Yes, but that would apply if skyhook would be doing the 147 too.

 

Didn't the 187 get pretty bad reviews when first released? I don't know if all bugs and annoyances were ever fixed.

 

The 187 was and is pretty terrible, the worst loco in TSW by far. Thats why the hope is that we finally get a useable traxx3 with the 147, which will be miles better than the 187 even if its a Standard DTG loco. (Maybe DTG chose to to a 147 because the bar is in the basement

 

You want realism? Then this is the reality of DB. The overwhelming majority of its electric locos come from the TRAXX family- in fact almost all of them except the 143 group (being retired), the 101 (not going to be around much longer), and the 182 Eurosprinter (of which DB never bought many). Trying to say you want a contemporary German route without TRAXX is like saying you want a contemporary US route without GE locomotives.

 

The BR 147 is not being built by Skyhook, but is a newly built locomotive.

The BR 147 has nothing to do with Skyhook or their BR 187.
So just wait and see what the BR 147 is like when it comes out!