Fatal Blowback

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by sami, Nov 18, 2019.

  1. sami

    sami New Member

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    Hi. What causes fatal blowback on steam engines in this game and how to avoid it? I tend to get that when adding coal and the amount of coal is 44% or more.
     
  2. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I believe it's keeping the firebox door open when in tunnels
     
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  3. sami

    sami New Member

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    I'll check that but I think it happens anywhere.
     
  4. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    I've only had it when I've entered a tunnel and not had the blower on. I can't remember if the firebox door was open.

    In real life the closeness of the tunnel roof to the loco's chimney could cause the exhaust steam (if working hard) to create a massive backflow through the firetubes so that the flames and burning coal in the firebox got blown back into the cab, with sometimes appalling results. There was a incident in the 1960s in the UK where a driver chose to suffer terrible (and later fatal) burns, rather than escape the cab, so that he could keep control of his passenger train and bring it to a safe stop. I can't remember whether that was in or out of a tunnel, but it was certainly a blowback.

    They still happen, though this one was due to mechanical failure. https://www.gov.uk/raib-reports/the...grosmont-on-the-north-yorkshire-moors-railway
    The report linked to above lists the following as possible causes of blowback.
    1. Ruptured superheater tube
    2. Significant smokebox leaks
    3. Effects of tunnels and cuttings
    4. Inappropriate control of regulator and blower
    5. Fractured blower pipe
    6. Movement of blastpipe leading to loss of smokebox vacuum (The cause of the NYMR blowback).
    I think only #3 is modelled in the sim.
     
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2019
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  5. sami

    sami New Member

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    Took short quick drive without tunnels and no blowback. So to be safe: no adding coal when in tunnel and blower on, right? Should I also watch out bridges or are they small enough not to cause blowback?
     
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  6. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    Yes, that will keep you safe. I don't think bridges produce blowbacks in the game.
     
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  7. sami

    sami New Member

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    Thank you.:)
     
  8. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon Member

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    To avoid blowback you must when entering tunnels 1) have the fire box doors closed, 2) the blower on - Key n.

    I understand from a real steam engine driver the blower was kept on at all times - though in TS that isn't simulated very well with some locos - you end up with the safety valves blowing off all the time.
     
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  9. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    I don't think that's correct. The main purpose of the blower is to create a vacuum in the smoke box when there's no exhaust to do it. Putting the blower on when there's an exhaust blast is a waste of steam. Putting the blower on when you don't need steam is a waste of coal as you make the fire burn hotter and produce excess steam. Typically you turn the blower on when you're stationary to raise steam, and put it on to prevent blowbacks. You wouldn't use it while coasting down a slope as you don't need steam.

    The steam engines I've seen on UK heritage railways always turn off the blower just before moving off.

    I think TS simulates the blower quite well.
     
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  10. trev123

    trev123 Active Member

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    Blowback as already mentioned is caused by having the firebox open when entering tunnels. Very few TS steam locos model this. The only ones that I have come across are some from JTs. As for the blower some locos model, this very will with extra smoke coming out of the smokestack when it is on but there are some that don't. I have found that some locos do benefit from having the blower on at speed and also when filling the boiler. Whether that is true to life I don't know.
     
  11. Hugh Janus

    Hugh Janus Member

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    I think more locos do this than you realise. Even the long-in-the-tooth Kuju Black 5 does. More depends on whether the route designers have configured tunnels properly. Most don't use "tunnel track" which I think is the deciding factor. I guess they see it as unnecessary on modern-era routes.

    Of course, if you use auto-fireman, the firebox doors are closed and the blower is turned on automatically when you enter a proper tunnel. That's a good way to see if a loco/route are configured properly.
     
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  12. jetgriff

    jetgriff Well-Known Member

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    I was a fireman at Saltley 21A. The blower was kept on all times otherwise the unburnt gasses could not get took out through chimney.
    Some drivers turned off the blower once the regulator was opened but always turned it back on before closing it.
    As the game suggests blow backs would occur if the blower was off particularly when entering a tunnel and unburnt gasses could not get out of the firebox through chimney and would ignite and the only way out was through the firebox door if it were open, sometimes even if it was closed the resulting 'explosion" could almost blow the firebox doors off...
     
  13. Broomwagon

    Broomwagon Member

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    Just have a pop over to the trainsim forum on Steam - you can't even so much as mention not having the blower on at all times before 'ChickenBalti' who trains people to drive steam engines comes on and tells you the blower 'must' be on at all times and tells numerous stories of loco crew being badly burnt through not having the blower on. His view is the blower is the only thing which keeps the fire in the firebox and not in the cab.
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2019
  14. Hugh Janus

    Hugh Janus Member

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    There are a lot of people involved with Train Simulator with opinions. Strong opinions. They can't all be right . . .
     
  15. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

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    I don't know about Chicken Balti, but the accident investigation report I linked to above notes that the blower was only slightly open when the blowback occurred and does not consider that this contributed to the incident.

    I may be wrong about not using it when coasting.
     
  16. patrick.wadsworth

    patrick.wadsworth New Member

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    Thanks for the advice. Had a blowback on Challenging Cheyenne to Laramie which came as a disappointment as a) its happened a long way into the scenario and I had not saved it :( and b) it was my first go at manual firing and I was doing so well. Not having the blower on seems to be what caused it.
     
  17. UP13

    UP13 Well-Known Member

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    From my extensive experience driving steam engines on TS, the blower seems to make no difference to blowbacks. A fatal blowback will only occur if the firedoors (blowers on or not) are open inside a tunnel. Now to clarify it is only tunnels that appear on the what's ahead you map bar thing at the bottom when you are on F3 or F4 (can't remember which one it is) on the HUD.

    If there is tunnel scenery but no tunnel on the HUD then blowbacks do not occur.
     
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