I used to use this route many years ago to go fishing on the Medway at East Farleigh. I'm pretty sure it was EPB stock on the line at the time. I've stepped away from buying DLC recently but will have to make an exception for this.
Says a lot that when people were expressing concern about performance the devs attempted to dismiss the topic, saying it was off topic (which is an insane claim) and nothing to do with them and effectively told people to shut up, albeit less directly and a bit more politely. But then when people had a massive discussion about the positives and negatives of gangwayed units, which is way more off topic than performance, they don't say anything...
The problem is, what more do you want them to explain? They did reply about the subject, but there is only so many responses someone can give about the same topic before they are repeating themselves again and again and it gets unnecessarily repetitive. Further more every thread about new DLC has the same topic about performance coming up (which is most definitely important), but there are only so many answers a dev can give before they repeat themselves. The larger picture is performance seem to be a core issue that is the main responsibility of DTG. The developers can only respond about their own product. And in this thread they have made the effort to reply to the performance questions and haven't avoided them. It turns from asking questions about performance, to completely hijacking the thread and offering nothing more then unnecessary back and forth negativity. The discussion about gangway doors was going back and forth because it offered a array of opinions from forum members. The subject of performance hit a brick wall because there is nothing more that can be added about it. Anyway, that is just my opinion on the subject. I'm not saying I am right, or wrong for that matter, but you've got to recognise when a subject needs to move on when there is nothing more that can be said on it. I care about performance very much, but I know at heart it's a core issue at fault and that frustration needs to be aimed firmly at DTG.
The Devs are also prominent forum members and were a well respected part of the modding community before becoming devs. They're aware of the issues having also been part of the people raising them previously. If they can't understand the worries we have, no one can.
Yeah, I do side with them. Because they've explained themselves and there is no more to it than that. All you're doing with these type of replies is trying to antagonise a reaction which is a bit childish. People can make there own minds up on that one, I respect most people's opinions when they offer something constructive. But anyway, I don't want this thread to become hijacked with non constructive nonsense and for it to get closed.
how quickly players forget all the free mods the devs have done for the community. You have to shake your head sometimes. I think they have given us enough explanation and just have to hope DTG can fix the issue
I’m not going to get into the topic of what modders & devs do etc any deeper than this comment, because frankly it’s a topic that won’t lead anywhere productive There’s very little bearing on free mods etc to TSW in relation to the issue at hand, since console has reaped only a couple of benefits from those mods out of the dozens over the years. Unfortunately there seems to be a recurring pattern of PC users telling console users when & where to discuss this console specific issue. I suspect the day PC gets their own issue of this scale, that won’t be the case (and it certainly wasn’t when the EGS issue came about).
fair enough. I do have a Xbox X so I know the frustration. But I also know the 3pp really can only do so much. I'm sure they're doing everything they can to avoid this issue
My problem? I very much explained my problem. Don't respond then because by doing so you're just continuing the non constructive nonsense And that doesn't exempt them from criticism
What more was there to be said regarding the topic of poor performance? That conversation went on multiple days, it's also played out across the forums constantly. People asked what had been done regarding performance for this route and the devs stated that they had tried to optimise their assets as best as possible and that they are working within the technical specs of the Gen 9 consoles. They then went onto say that this would hopefully mean that it runs well, but caveated that no testing had yet been done on consoles and that they personally can only do so much to improve performance of the game itself. That was the answer to the question about potential performance issues, nothing else could be added to that. The responses given by Fawx and Jetwash were incredibly transparent and even went into some technical detail that helped give additional context. For some reason, instead of taking these points as the were given, some people went on to interpret this as saying "We don't care, we can't fix anything". From there the whole thing just became moronic. Even though it had been explicitly stated multiple times that no console testing had occurred, people started saying that the devs had claimed it had and they should retract statements that were never made. We then had people saying that they shouldn't have talked about performance in the first place if they don't know because it's misleading (even though it was a question that was asked???). It was at this point after continuous back and forth that Jetwash, reasonably, asked people to stop talking about the topic because all that was happening was complete misrepresentation of facts and people basing their opinions on hearsay rather than just reading back through the forums themselves. I don't mean to throw out insults, but reading comprehension on these forums is incredibly poor. The fact that people are unable to accept answers they dislike or just cannot understand a very clear sentences should not be everyone else's issue. And although I am replying to you, this isn't solely directed at you. There seem to be an array of users on this forum that bring up the same things ad nauseum and it's incredibly tiresome to drudge through in every single topic. I completely understand that console performance has been dreadful for many and it is reasonable to be frustrated and sceptical. I cannot overstate that it is indeed important to have critical discussion, provide constructive criticism and make suggestions. Topics of conversation like performance should absolutely be brought up, especially considering how poorly the game is running for some people. However, people then need to accept the answers given to them, realise the limitations that 3Ps have when it comes to both testing and optimising of their addons, stop repeating themselves and stop looking for arguments. If the product releases in a terrible state, don't buy it/refund it and make your problems known. Do not pre-emptively complain about things that haven't yet happened and misrepresent what people have said. For as questionable as some of DTG's behaviour has been, they have said many times now that texture blurring and console performance is their number one priority. Whether this yields results is yet to be seen, but continuing to accost anyone remotely involved in TSW will not make the process any quicker or more effective.
No. What I was originally doing was politely replying to you, and giving you the reasons I feel that the developers have responded adequately to performance issues and that they have nothing more to answer for on the subject. I done that in a polite manner. Your response to that was non constructive, childish and trying to incite an equally childish response. So please do not attempt to deflect away from your response that was silly and not contributing anything valuable, on others. I'll happily have a debate with you, or others if they are constructive. I just feel that response of "don't respond then" is silly too. No, I will respond as you need to be told of the above, but hypothetically I would not need to resort to silliness if I had lacked a constructive response. Back on the topic of this, I hope with the success of Medway Valley that we a see a return to some third rail routes as it has been a while, so it would be nice to see more Southern Region content with modern TSW standards.
I agree with everything you've said there and i'm glad somebody has actually said it too. Sometimes i think to myself 'i'd love to learn how to build routes and become a third party developer' Now the first (and main) reason i don't, is because i simply don't have that skill set like yourself and those part of the new Firefly studio clearly possess, and you have honed those skills as part of the modding community and i myself as a PS5 player really look forward to finally being able to experience these enhancements first-hand when this new Medway Valley Line releases. The second reason i won't become a third party developer, is exactly because of the responses and reactions of certain people on these forums, and across the social media footprint of DTG. Yourselves as new 3P developers have just announced a really interesting route, and i say that as somebody who has no connection to anyone creating this route, nor any connection to the real life Medway Valley Line. I'm frankly sick of a growing and vocal group of people who will drag any new annoucement down with frankly irrelevant points, and if i was in your shoes i would have stoppee communicating on this forum a very long time ago, as it cannot be worth the hassle after a while. I for one am looking forward to this route, knowing that any 3P developer has zero influence on the state of the TSW core and should not be expected to justify themselves in that regard. So huge respect to the whole team behind Medway Valley Line for preparing to offer us something different, quirky and interesting, and even bigger respect for having to navigate and interact with the ever decreasing standards of behaviour on these forums
The only person being disrespectful to others opinions on this thread is you, and the only person not taking accountability for their antagonising tone is you... Not once has anyone said "you can't have an opinion". You were politely quoted with a post that disagreed with your stance in a polite debate. Since then you have been the only one showing signs of intolerance to others views which is now borderline abusive. Take some time to reflect on your input and I hope you can see you're the only one at fault here. People are most welcome to vent their alternative opinions. That is what makes the forum interesting. But what isn't welcome is abuse like the post of yours above.
I am Still holding out for the PDL now that SWR is under DfT ownership! I'm biased, but I am also hoping for a Charing Cross to Hastings route with both variety of Electrostars that will be in the game.
Getting back on topic, I've just had a lovely drive from Strood to Tonbridge on the 375. It's by far the best Electrostar in terms of visuals, sounds and physics. With the route itself, it is incredibly detailed, with there being lots to see and many places to explore. I'm finding performance is also extremely good, despite the high fidelity of detailed foliage used. Certainly a lot smoother than some other, less good looking and detailed TSW routes. The route building feels very efficient, without sacrificing any visual quality or detail. The team have really smashed it with this one!
Oh my. I just can’t wait, I have never done this before, but for this route I am definitely going to make up an excuse to ‘work’ from home the day it is released
Sounding very tasty indeed! I've got to admit out of all the announcements I am most excited for the Medway Valley Line and Milton Keynes to Crewe. If you can't answer, I totally understand, but is there a noticeable difference with the improvement in the 375/3 & 375/6 physics? I get the impression this will be a borderline 'Expert 375'.
I was almost on the verge of giving up on these forums, but the last page of responses has restored my faith. Some of the best put together and erudite posts I’ve read in a long time, not because they were defending what I had written, but because they actually understood the message and could comprehend it. re Gangways? I had nothing to contribute, so didn’t. Hope you all saw some of the extra screenshots in the roadmap, although I’m pretty sure those are actually quite old now
I did think in the roadmap "I'm sure I haven't seen them?!'. It was a very nice touch and much appreciated. A very small and random detail that I noticed, that did catch my eye and shows the level of even small detail, was some abandoned traffic cones that were trackside amongst the grass and the weeds. One was stood upright and the other tipped on its side... I thought, even such small details as that really brings a route to life and give it some personality. The trackside clutter in general looked phenomenal!
I'll second this, I'm pretty much over the forums now as I've been quite frankly shocked by some of the responses here and I don't intend on making regular appearances anymore. It's quite disheartening at times. But what I will say is that it's nice to know that some people actually understand that we're not trying to hide in vain here. We're just as concerned about optimisation here as everyone else is, but there's only so much we can do when it comes to the dreaded blurring texture problem, It's a much more fundamental core issue that needs resolving properly.
i know that i personally am contributing to these forums less and less in recent months for similar reasons, so i know that you as a 3P developer will have felt it significantly more. i definitely know that if i poured my heart and effort into my first ever route development, i'd be incredibly frustrated to say the least when those genuine efforts are twisted and taken in a wildly off-topic direction. but anyway to end on a positive note, it's clear to see the shear quality that is going into this route. I'm really craving an immersive, slower paced route that is not an obvious choice, not a mainline route, and this choice of your first route is exactly the kind of thing i would want to be created for TSW right now. i will be taking a step back from these forums for the foreseeable future now, but i genuinely look forward to seeing your Medway Valley Line develop and look forward even more to getting my hands on it down the line.
Using the 'just side with the Devs blindly' card is effective, but only if you aren't actively playing the 'blindly side against the devs' move.
Excellent stuff. Highly anticipated and I have a feeling 2026 generally is going to be a good year for TSW content, UK at least. And thanks also to the Firefly team for not deserting the majority of forum users who appreciate direct contact with those developing the project, over a few malcontents who don’t know when to keep quiet.
Unfortunately some like to be confrontational and arrogant. These forums get less and less pleasant. A lot of people have deserted them. I wouldn't gauge opinion from this forum alone, the minority usually have the loudest voices. I have little doubt that this route will be well made and will be an excellent addition to the collection.
Have faith that there are a lot of us who do understand and comprehend, who shake our heads in despair when they see people misconstruing a factual statement into an opinion they want to oppose. Keep doing what you're doing, and thanks for the updates.
It was a sad day when you guys announced no more mods for tsw. That was the end of tsw for me. But here we are heading into 26 with one of the best routes to come to tsw just around the corner. I watched the live stream for the first time in a long time last night to get a peak at Medway valley and also had a play on tsw for the first time in a while. I can't thank the team enough for the enhancements you have bought to tsw over the years making it a great experience. I can't wait to see what comes from the team in the future, I know I won't be disappointed.
That's because Rivet's earlier content was awful. The 204 [?] was a mediocre DLC at best, Isle of Wight, Arosa Linie, the 1938 TS, West Cornwall and to a lesser extent Luzern - Sursee and Edinburgh - Glasgow were desperately let down by their rolling stock or scenery. Island Line 2022, Bernina Line, Fife Circle (eventually) have shown a marked improvement but they still aren't reaching the heights they really should be, having been in the fold for so long. Like any other 3rd Party, Rivet were given plenty of time and patience from the community, especially as they were, effectively, the only 3rd Party for a while at the beginning, and wasted it by not improving. They have eventually and they've won back a bit of good-will. Likewise, these guys (who have a lot of positive favour due to their modding and community presence) will be given a chance. Instantly attempting to criticise them before we've even seen their work (it's still early days, none of the issues spoken about are done deals) is just not helping anyone and it's certainly not helping you in this thread.
The choice of traction for this is great! I personally think the importance of having multiple subclasses can't be overstated, and it adds so much realism to the view out of the cab, especially at hub stations. Just because a route only has one or two loco classes diagrammed on it IRL, doesn't mean there can't be a wide variety of consist lengths and compositions, and this route will be proof of that, I'm sure. Between this and the upcoming Southern pack from Rivet, I feel very optimistic about the future for this part of TSW!
I hope Rivet will reach out to Firefly and come to an agreement to implement FF's unique features and sounds to their 377s and the others that will come with the base route.
