recently I had watched one of Train Sim Society's video in a part where they say there are people who would just ignore issues or valid criticisms. Which I have personally experience too many times to count on this fourm, or at least during early times when I first started this fourm. After watching their video it really reminded me back when TSW4 was still new. One of the many issues that I have tried bringing up was the 5 car Class 801/1s. The 8221XX (or MS) carriage should've been a buffet (the one with the buffet counter) car. And that should be reflect by, at least from the image shown below here, have 2 windows blanked from the far left of the carriage. And the second to right on the other side and obviously there should be a buffet represented inside the coach. the 9 car class 801/2 did. in the carriage that has the buffet. at least according to LNER's seating plan on 5 car and 9 car, there are seating config differences in the coach with the buffet. Along with some roof differences. Yet none of that are reflected on the 801/1 in the game. I have tried mentioned this issue before on the fourm yet all i got in reponses from people were "be grateful that the 5 car version is even in the game", "it doesnt matter, you're driving and you can't see it anyway". Everyone was so dismissive to the lack of accuracy on the model and hold DTG accountable. I can't remember was this true or not because there were lines of "LNER didn't let DTG look at the 801/1, only the 801/2". But even then is it not impossible to model the 801/1 base on images or any of the sort? The fact that this was never fixed nor improvement upon years later is insanity and I doubt it will ever be updated with the accurate coach... and no one has ever mention this issue with the 801 when it was first launched too. How can people just be so dismissive to criticism that are actually valid. If you think what I said isn't valid. Look at a 5 car 801 yourself on video or real thing, you can clearly see that the 8221XX carriages have a buffet counter in it. And I dont need to be a developer to understand how things goes in the background (and this is a really common excuse people use to dismiss one criticism) to allow and it doesn't excuse the fact there are inaccuracy that needed to be held accountable. I as a customer should have the right to be frustrated with problems that are found in the product that I pay at a premium.
The reason DTG gave for not including the buffet in the 5 car was it required a lot of changes, rather than just reusing a coach. Apparently the main DLC was the 9 car and then they wanted to include the 5 car to give variety. While I agree that it is a shame it isn't included, unfortunately it seems that DTG were only willing to supply the train without the buffet, or not supply the train. Another underlying inaccuracy with the 801s in some configs is coach lettering - I've reported this before, but never been fixed. For example, on the 9 car Coach M IRL is lettered Coach A in game.
i never knew this issue until recently as well, and only now i check the model myself according to LNER's seat map. In game is A-B-C-D-E-F-G-H-I. When in reality it should've been A-B-C-G-H-J-K-L-M... How did they even get this wrong?? Its honestly appalling looking back at the ECML add on... not only did they exclude any and all of the Class 800. The fact that even the main traction, which only has 2 variants bare in mind and they plan to just have 1 as the main traction while literally excluding the variant that is in the same class. They had really not think through that, when driving, players would see the incoming train which means they can still see the exterior of the train... and that being in accurate is already a crime. If the model require a lot of changes then do it, they literally have no reason to and sounds like they want to cheap out on the modeling... not to mention not fixing the god damn TOPS number bug until after release.
Tbh at this point I would take literally an 801 with the diesel physics of the 802 applied happily as a stop gap for the 800 and for layering potential. Not as a paid loco add on of course, for that it'd need to be the 800. I do hope they revisit the ECML with another section, and then potentially the 800 as a slightly adapted and layered unit and the 91 as a new loco. Would hopefully mean they could also take the opportunity to fix the coach lettering, if not also the buffet car
but then this just results in a paid update... that is if they include a improved class 801... otherwise we will have to wait for god knows how long for a remaster for the ECML... which shouldn't even happen in the first place... its too new to be remastered...
I'm not sure what you are demanding here. It's quite one thing to expect DTG to fix a bug, and quite another to demand they include additional content which would have exceeded the available project resources. Building a buffet car would have busted the ceiling: this is not a "mistake," it's a conscious decision to keep a project on time and on budget. The issue with the 800 is very simple: LNER provided them with an 801 for their survey. You can't very well model a train you haven't examined. Now, I have criticized DTG for what I deem to be excessive conscious corner-cutting; I am really disappointed with Stuttgart-Heilbronn, and have not bought it despite my initial enthusiasm for the 140, because DTG elected to save a few pence and not give us period appropriate liveries. Liveries are not that time-consuming to do (I know this personally), and JT and TSG are happy to provide the required skins, so in this case, yes, the cheeseparing was excessive and creates a route that looks nothing like DB ca. 2000. But a livery is one thing, building a buffet car from scratch, or a whole train from internet research, is quite another.;
its one coach. Exterior details on roof and undercarriage (if there are any difference), most of the body doesnt even need changing, reuse the buffet model from the 801/2 and change a bit of the seats and there. There, a correct 801/1 buffet coach. Is not much to ask and i am still demanding one due to this inaccuracy and it shouldn't be excused now.
But it's an entirely new coach to model. Its easy for you to say its just one thing, but in development terms that one thing isn't as simple to make as you seem to think.
and there it is. this is what i am talking about people being so dismissive about the problem that is yet and should've been corrected...
Being dismissive how? By stating the obvious: demands don't work. The more you demand someone does something, the less likely they'll do it. Would you do something if someone demanded it? Doubt it.
Let’s be realistic here, yes it’s not a massive job but it is still work needed, then QA time to test it and make sure nothings broken. All this comes at a cost with no revenue at the end of it, and it’s not gaming breaking and to most players not even noticeable. If you was a business with the aim of making profit would you spend time which would benefit few people with little additional revenue, spend time either fixing bugs which irritate a good proportion of your player base or produce something that will generate lots of mullah for your shareholders? keep 2 and cut 1, what’s ended up in the bin?
Truth. Everyone's least favorite part of succeeding as a business is needing the discipline to draw a line and stick to it. You have a wheelbarrow made of time and budget and a pile of firewood made of issues; do your best.
If it's true-to-life realism and honest attention to detail that you want, you've come to the wrong game. DTG (edit: I mostly mean the 1st-party products) haven't been offering that for years. It's all "business decision" this and "LAMPOIL" that. Every time they need to fix an issue or maintain a feature, they ask "but will it make enough money," instead of fixing the issue or maintaining the feature. That's why, among a myriad of other things, steam was dropped (until a 3rd party picked it back up), that's why they stopped making achievements/trophies for new routes, and that's why the 801/1 has no buffet car. It was deemed not worth the effort, so no effort was expended. It's pretty clear that DTG just want money now, and that they don't really care about the importance of investing in things which don't have an immediate payoff, such as goodwill or reputation. So, while your issue might be just a tad on the side of "<10 people will notice it ever," you shouldn't be surprised that you've been ignored or told the things that you were told. Then stop paying. Personally, that's what I've done. If they're so money-focused, deprive them of it. I feel it's the only way they will ever clean up their act.
