Gen8 Support Is Not Fair

I’m going to bring up the discussion of Gen8 consoles again! And not for the reason often mentioned by forum users that Gen8 would limit the production of addons, because that’s simply not true.

I want to look at it from a different angle… I think what DTG is doing isn’t smart at all, because DTG is actively contributing to people never making the switch.
DTG claims that too many users are still actively using Gen8. And yes, I believe that but I don’t think the customer decides when they move to Gen9; the market does. So in reality, DTG is keeping an outdated platform alive and is actually disadvantaging users by not making it clear that a newer platform offers far more benefits. DTG makes it look like a generous gesture, but it’s really not in fact, the customer ends up worse off.

So I’m calling on DTG to reconsider this and stop using the argument that too many users are still stuck on old hardware. By continuing support, they are actively contributing to the problem instead of acknowledging that people won’t just upgrade on their own.

Sony is ending Gen8 support this spring (2026) as well, so once again: please, DTG, stop supporting it!

I’ve added a poll make your voice heard, because many users have already said it: stop supporting a 16‑year‑old console!

 

Yes I’ve seen Sony are ending support for PS4 later this year. However even when DTG does pull the plug on last gen do people really think TSW is going to be a lot better than it is now ???. It will just be the same I bet.

 

They're dependent on their console base since it represents so much of the overall consumers. It's pandering to them, plain and simple. Should they drop support for Gen 8? Yes, because it holds the more performant platforms back in my opinion.

 

Holds it back how though ?.

 

Sorry the difference between PS4 and PS5 is massive in terms of hardware specs. They are now near the solution for the texture issues so this will be the time stop support of it.

 

I'm sure those players still using gen8 are well aware of the advantages of switching to gen9. There are a number of reasons why they don't want to make the switch. One is cost. Another might be that the games they play the most work just fine on gen8 and why switch just for one game which they don't play exclusively ( TSW ).

These who cling to the long debunked notion that gen8 players are somehow holding back the rest of us should wise up. Sooner or later it will be gen9 that's " holding other platforms back " and that notion will be equally invalid.

As long as there is a substantial cohort on gen8, DTG will keep trying to squeeze them in. Threads like this serve no-one and are simply self-serving in the worst way.

Does the OP think that players with pc's which are below minimum specs should be outlawed too. You could make a pretty good argument that says that those players are actually holding back the game more than gen8 because developers have to keep them in mind when adding features that take up more memory and gpu/cpu capability.

 

I blame those people over there. Them, the ones who are a bit different to us. It must be their fault. If we got rid of them then everything would be better. We must rid ourselves of this blight on our game.

Drop PC support NOW.







*satire

 

( My misquote ).

 

You want people to switch to newer machines? Get the global economy under control so that we ain't facing a PC part crisis every year, and somehow convince console and PC makers to lower their prices despite each respectively being in some of their most profitable years ever.

Like I feel like people forget the Switch Lite, the oldest modern-ish system currently for sale, is still at its OG retail price of $200 that it's been at for five years, and the OG Switch still retails at $300. Granted at least they're now including Mario Kart 8 for that price at least, but still, that took years for that to even happen. In comparison when the Lite launched you could get a PS4 with multiple games for the price of it, and mind you PS4 was actually considered current gen at the time.

We're in a basically unprecedented situation for video games, and I wish people would stop just reducing it down to "They're old, so they need to stop being supported". Simple fact is 8th gen machines are about the only current-ish machines that are affordable for most people. It isn't like 10 years ago where consoles on the eve of new consoles got massive discounts to try and get the lower end market in.

 

It’s already been said, but Sony is ending support for the PS4 soon. Why would DTG continue to support delisted hardware?
Also it’s unclear at this moment, but will other developers be able to make games on the PS4 after its support has ended?

I should imagine Sony want to start focusing more on the PS5 now since PS6 is rumoured to launch sometime in 2028.

 

All this gen8 malarky can be solved in one easy step:
Scalable performance

Under options all it needs is an extra settings to change things like the draw distance, auto load shaders or not, foliage distance. The same way us PC users can do that via the ini file editing.
The player can then set up the performance best suited to their system.

That way the same game can run on a Gen 8, Gen 9, the coming Gen 10 and my PC. Currently its default setting is to match Gen 8 which is frustrating to all other users.

I'd love to see this roll out for TSW7 'take Control'

 

I'm pretty sure that users of 8th gen systems are already aware that 9th gen is better (and I can confirm this is so, since I have and use both), but I'm less sure that the 8th gen subsection of users of a very niche sim is what's keeping that gen going.

 

Probably, Wii U was out of production before the Switch even launched in 2017, with certain services shutting down that same year, yet that was getting games till 2023, and that was for a console that was far more niche. I don't see why it would be to Sony's benefit to deny developers to launch PS4 versions of games if they want to, I don't doubt there's still some customers wanting new titles.

There was a brief time when Sony was support PS2, PS3, & PS4 all at once, heck, even more considering PS Vita was also a thing, and I'm not entirely sure when PSP was completely dropped. Sony absolutely can handle testing a few PS4 titles if there's still demand in the later half of the 2020's.

Also one other random thing to consider, PS4 isn't even the weakest hardware on the market, Switch is, and that's still getting decent support into next year at least, and that's a less powerful machine than PS4. It's worth noting a big reason PS2 got supported so long was because the Wii was a 7th gen machine, and that wasn't all that much more powerful than the PS2. which meant a lot of developers double dipped by porting their titles to both.

Granted, I will agree with this.

But, well, the clear counterargument is thus far DTG has the numbers and they think it still makes sense, just like all those other companies putting out PS4 games still.

 

On the one hand I agree gen 8 should probably be dropped, because even gen 9 struggles, but who is supporting gen 8 unfair to?
The can, and do, not release stuff on gen 8 if it doesn't work, and cut back layers (and in some situations even included trains) to support gen 8 better.

 

As gen9 user don't think dropping gen8 now is a good idea whit cost of gen9

 

Looking forward to “do we need to stop support for gen9”…..

 

Limits detail that they put into projects in order to stay reasonably performant with Gen 8.

 

I was thinking the OP was talking overall and not just for some reason, but yes, this is what I meant. DTG supports gen 8 because it's still financially worthwhile for them to do so. When it no longer is, they won't anymore.

The idea that DTG is somehow enabling a serious problem by not forcing people to upgrade to gen 9 is pretty tortured logic. How does taking the financial hit of removing a still-viable section of their market benefit anyone?

This need for control some people have, where they're compelled to dictate without a hint of embarrassment what others do with their money (also involving assumptions of how much money they have to spare) when it has nothing to do with them whatsoever and is completely none of their business, remains amazing.

 

My thoughts exactly. Gen 8 today, followed by older PC’s tomorrow. A slippery slope to go down and TBH if DTG wanted to significantly increase the minimum hardware specs that should come courtesy of an all new game. Not upping the spec of the existing game we bought into through the annual version changes.

And bear in mind, the core of TSW is so riddled with tech debt and inefficiencies it isn’t exactly aceing on PS5 or the newer XBox either. Even the EP’s demo PC for streams occasionally jitters and sound burps.

 

What makes you think that’s because of the game and not the stream itself?

 

Because the artefacts are exactly what is experienced without running streaming software in the background. And doesn’t Matt have some sort of pro setup which avoids any such conflicts? Though of course convenient for the acolytes to blame that. Still if you want the TSW player base down to > 500, carry on with your campaign to make the game only for NASA supercomputers.

 

That’s not how it should be…Seems very harsh for current gen owners. TSW isn’t getting pushed to its fullest potential basically as it has to make cut backs to suit last gen consoles. This will continue on when the next more powerful consoles release.

I’m also pretty sure one of the devs on here denied this ages ago…

 

Just to add to the pile of false ideas. As i know, TSW is not held back by the existence of the 8th gen at all nowadays. Gen8 is a separate branch where some things happen to make it run on that (really really bad) old hardware. So shrinking textures down, using not LOD level 0 at all and such things. If it would be the same as for PC or Gen5, it wouldn't even run on Gen8. What's holding back TSW (and any other TS software) is the fact it is about trains and railroad infrastructure. We (all) should simply switch to busses or cars to cope with that 'problem'. Or better just rip off the trains from the game and make it a walking sim with baked light (no ToD). That would run fine. Kidding besides, simulating railroads in the way TWS (and other comparable sims do) is doing it, is nothing really good for the actual hardware and software that is around. It always comes with compromises and restrictions because of the missing computing power.

 

So the real question is whether more people are being assigned to Gen8 who could have spent their time working on Gen9 instead that’s essentially the conclusion. The fact that Gen8 exists at all means it costs manpower and money, so it really depends on how you look at it. And that’s not even mentioning all the testing that has to be done, while those testers could be working on something else. So yes, as I said before, it’s not a direct pushback, but it is an indirect one.

 

No, i don't see that at all. If any, one extra person might be involved in Gen8 over the rest of things that happening anyways. On the developing side of things there is no difference. It will not cut any developer time. The reduction is part of the cooking and the other things are part of core functionality that is already there. TSW was made to be a multi-gen multi-platform title.

 

Yeah it’s unclear what Sony will decide to do, but if a piece of hardware and all its services cease to exist than what would be the point supporting the said hardware. Unless PS4 support becomes more dominant on PS5 since we already have all era’s of PlayStation games with the premium subscription service.

My other reason for dropping PS4 support is less time optimising for an inferior version of the game and more resources on the current gen of consoles.

I don’t buy this argument that people can’t afford to buy a 9th gen console. If you want something bad enough you can easily set aside some money each month. I remember when I first started working back in 2007 and I was only earning about £1200 a month, with my bills, travel costs and rent each month I was only left with about £100 quid to myself. I really wanted a PS3 so I started setting aside £30-£40 quid each month. I remember it taking me roughly 6 months as I also put some money towards it that I got at Christmas.

 

Classic punching down. It’s all the rage in society now. The privileged pointing at those less privileged as the cause of all their issues and if only they could exclude those at the bottom they could have so much more for themselves. Selfishness and greed and a complete lack of understanding of reality.

 

I voted yes, but for a slightly different reason.
In my opinion, the people that have not switched from Gen 8 to another platform probably can‘t afford to do so, but they still pay the same amount for the base TSW6 game despite getting timetsbles on the core routes cut down to the point that the routes are almost boring. Then after that almost all DLC are Gen 9 and PC only. That is whst I think is unfair and shows that TSW6 should never have come across to Gen 8. (Not to mention that the exact detaiks of the reduced timetables were communticated well into the pre-order window) Everyone knows Gen 8 needs a reduced timetable but these were completley gutted.

The fate will now be sealed anyway for PS4 with Sony dropping support.

 

Sorry, this is really going a bit too far, and I’m done with it. As so often, it’s turning into unreasonable accusations again… very unfortunate. Have a nice weekend.

 

Tsw is the problem, the resources it uses is absolutely ridiculous, especially when you look at the end result.

 

This is just staggering.

 

This thread is just as much trolling as mine that got shut down yesterday!

 

+1

Yeah, made my eyes pop too!

 

I also voted yes, for the following reason.

I cannot understand why users who have a Gen8 console still buy TSW DLCs. If I had a Gen8 console, I would have looked into switching to a Gen9 console before TSW6 came out.

Let's be honest, what do Gen8 consoles get in terms of DLCs for their consoles?
Many DLCs are not even released for Gen8 consoles, and if they are, then with significant limitations. Such as a shortened timetable, poor textures, and much more.

I think it's cheeky to even release DLCs for Gen8 consoles, because in my opinion it's simply a mockery of Gen8 console players.
Gen8 console players should simply stop buying these DLCs that are still being released for Gen8 consoles. They would be better off putting the money they save on DLC aside, so they can save up enough to buy a Gen9 console.

 

as someone who discovered TSW by playing TSW2020 on a PS4 slim, I voted yes

 

This is indeed the reason, and the whole “rich vs. poor” angle isn’t even a real discussion. And yes, DTG sells half-finished products for the same price, which only reinforces why that whole rich–poor argument is a bit laughable. And even I can’t pursue all the hobbies I’d like to, even though I have a bit more to spend. In life you simply have to make choices about where you put your money, and if you choose to spend it on the current TSW addons with Gen8, then in my view that’s not a sensible way to handle your money.

 

I love it when people pretend to be a professional Financial Advisor and tell other people how to spend their money.

But the other thing that always gets me about these threads is how adamant, bordering on the obsessive, some people are about throwing gen8 to the wolves.

Why does it matter so much when DTG have repeatedly said that gen8 has no effect on other platforms? They have simply cut out layers and/or reduced the timetable and other elements to fit gen8 capabilities. I wouldn't play the game under those circumstances, but it's entirely up to gen8 players to decide for themselves; the rest of us shouldn't purport to tell them what to do. It's arrogant.

You'd almost believe that the people who periodically start these threads genuinely care for the welfare of our gen8 co- players. Don't believe it for a moment. They're just being condescending and overbearing. Makes me feel quite ill to read it.

 

They'll continue supporting Gen8 for existing content and the annual core release, but so far haven't all DLCs for TSW6 been Gen9 only? I don't see that changing.

Support has pretty much already been dropped, the only 'holding back' going on now is the annual core routes/locos have to work on Gen8, nothing else does.

 

Because it is 'not fair' apparently.

First world problems we have!!!!

 

Serious question - If you’re poor and can’t afford a next gen console, how can you afford DLC? (Other people have asked this too).

I know poor is being like. If you can afford to buy dlc you’re not poor!

 

Right, sharp! DTG is supporting something, but also not really. It’s also funny to see that there are a few people here loudly proclaiming the importance of Gen8, while they don’t even own a Gen8 console themselves. I expected some actual Gen8 users to join the discussion, but it’s eerily quiet. Even a former Gen8 user says DTG shouldn’t be doing this anymore. And the votes speaking up kind of say it all, I think. But anyway…

 

That’s what I meant… I also can’t afford to pursue every hobby financially, so yes, that’s a fair question. In fact, with Gen8 you pay a lot and you practically get nothing.

 

I was going to reply separately to Mr Jesper but you pretty much nailed it on the head.

And addressing his somewhat personal insinuation that I'm "too lazy" to buy a new PC, it has nothing to do with laziness.

I could go out and buy a top of the range PC tomorrow if I wanted to but I happen to at least partly agree with what my wife says, why spend a fortune on replacing something that is a bit old but works perfectly fine in most cases. What is this obsession with pushing hardware higher and higher anyway? I don't need to replace my Blu-Ray or 4K player every couple of years because the latest discs won't play on it. I don't need to replace my large screen TV because the streaming apps no longer work on it (well actually, we bought a £60 firestick for that as the built in decoder on LG TV's is pretty LOVE).

I should not need to pay £1500 just to drive a few virtual trains for an hour or two a day.

And as noted, appears the cost of PC's and hardware is going up again so you end up constantly chasing your tail. There are already rumours that when the PS6 lands it will cost closer to £1k than £500.

 

You’re allowed to feel that way, I’m not judging you for it, but don’t expect other users to say, “oh wait, OldVern doesn’t want to move on, so the game can stay like this for years because it’s so sad…” No, you’re choosing not to spend money because you don’t think you need to. That’s fine, but don’t complain when the industry moves forward. You have a choice, and no one is forcing you. So you can’t really complain.

 

Nonsense. If you shop the sales wisely, dlc can be pretty inexpensive. I can afford full prices but I choose sale prices 75% of the time. It's the smart thing to do. Last thing I bought was Berninalinie for about $10 ( about £7.50 ).

 

I think I've made my point so I really don't care to repeat myself. Cost is only one of a number of reasons people don't upgrade their hardware. And, again, don't be so arrogant as to tell other people what to do with their money.

Enough from me at least. Let's all move on. With any luck, a moderator will close the thread which is going nowhere.

I think I'll unwatch this thread.

 

There is some truth to your statement, but I still stand by what I say. If you buy DLC for cheaper prices why can’t you put that money towards better hardware?

I don’t think the thread needs locking atm as no one has resorted to insults and belittlement yet