Xbox Why Are Routes And Trains So Expensive?

I get that it costs money to make the route and trains and licensing, but £24.99-£32.99 seems a bit much?

Dovetail clearly thinks i, and many other people can spend 32.99 on routes, i am put off buying routes and trains as they are too expensive! i only buy on sales where, depending on the route, i can get something for less than £15.

 

I think if everything worked and it actually felt like you were paying for a premium product that had been thoroughly tested, then I would say fair enough.

As it is though, it is a lot. Especially as I am on Xbox and therefore have bought a lot of the content at full price rather than being able to take advantage of the PC/PS sales.

If you were buying most stuff at 50%+ off, then that I would have no real complaints, although would still be annoyed that (almost) nothing ever gets fixed!!

 

Seems to be a pretty fair asking price for the most part...

However there are exceptions to the pricing when it comes to the quality of the route and the route working correctly. There have been instances, such as Cardiff City Network where the quality was pretty darn poor and the asking price was still premium. Or WCMLS in its original form which was a premium price for a poor quality route.

Things are looking up since then and it appears lessons have been learnt going forward. But when it is done right, I don't have an issue with the prices asked for add ons. They are pretty fair.

 

A lot of people wait for sales to get products on the cheap. I would like to see a price of £19.99 for a route and £9.99 for packs and locomotives and never have a sale. Then it’s fair for everyone.

 

The conclusion about whether something is too expensive or actually cheap depends on someone’s income, so you can’t state it in general terms. I can easily afford it, but a teenager without much income might not. So yes, this isn’t a black‑and‑white issue.

 

No, whether something is expensive does not depend on income. It depends on the entertainment value of the product.

I too can afford to buy at full price, but I rarely do so because I don't see $39.99 worth of value in most of the routes, especially on first release.
Shopping the sales is the smart thing to do, even if you are well off.

One of the world's wealthiest people once said that he got that way by counting his pennies.

 

No route is currently worth the asking £30 price tag, too many times a piece of content has been sold to us broken, this is unacceptable. I know DTG are doing their best to fix the problem, but we are all fed up with the release, fix it later approach.

The routes I plan on paying full price for are Medway, Tadami lines and MK to Crewe.

 

Anybody who thinks DLC for this game is “too cheap” must be off their head.

 

I mean they’re not too expensive in my opinion, but it’s all relative to what people can afford I guess. The variance in quality can be frustrating though. I’m more than happy to pay £32.99 for JustTrains Preston-Carlisle for instance, but other developers charging a similar amount for products they know are either not up to standard or ridden with bugs is highly questionable.

 

*their head.

 

I don’t agree with this statement, let me tell you why though.
Firstly I know so many people at work, friends & family who are “well off”. They will be out with you, most of the time in a local boozer (pub). They won’t be the first to go to the bar to buy you a drink and sometimes they won’t even offer to buy you drink at all. Bearing in mind some of these guys are on £70k+ a year in their jobs, so that really annoys me. People so well off where money shouldn’t be an issue are tight as air holes! What’s the point being that way?
We are only on this planet once, dead than forgotten about. You can’t take your money with you.

I do agree with you though on buying routes cheaper than the full price though, as I already mentioned in a previous comment they’re bugged to hell and it takes weeks or months until they’re fixed. They’re not worth the asking day one price.

 

Thats true but i think thats a step to far.... If something has this type of value you need the money to buy it, right?.... With no funds to do then this question is not relevant But yes if you have enough money it could be relevant yeah!

 

The pricing is about right for the most part, the bit that hurts is the quality control, consistency and product aftercare. These all hurt the experience of the consumer and perpetuate the belief that they are too expensive.

 

A big department store chain here in the U.S., J.C. Penney, got a new CEO who decided to try to goose sales by announcing that products would be offered at their lowest possible prices every day, so there would be no more sales or coupons. Instead, Penney's lost nearly a billion dollars, and he was out less than a year and a half later.

 

It seems to me that a fair price (a good price-quality ratio for example*) doesn't rule out that it might be expensive for someone who can't afford it.
A Ferrari is worth its price, but for me, it's too expensive.
So I'll move on. Too bad for me.
Maybe that's why some people have chosen "not enough" in the poll, even if they can't afford it.
The question wasn't "is it expensive for you", it was in the absolute.

*About the question of value...
People here in France are ready to pay significant sums for what we call the Dubaï chocolate...
I think 8€ for less than 100g of this is expensive.
So I do not buy it (most of the time... I am still a greedy person !!!)
We come to the etymology of the word fiduciaire (fiduciary), that refers to foi (faith)...
Doest thou have faith ?
Then give them your money !!!

 

TLR
Because games cost a lot to make and they don't have a lot of sales to offset the cost.
The DLC takes the same amount to make whether it sells 1,000 or 1,000,000 copies... but it's much cheaper to you if there's more sales.

if you want cheaper stuff, get more players for the game.
It will always be expensive when there are so few people buying it.

 

Personally, I don't think DLC is expensive.

It's not always value for money though.

 

I have voted for just right. SOME of the dlc i feel is worth the price some not so.

 

Every company in history, ever: "why are staff and bills so expensive?"

 

Exactly in point 802 engine issues never addressed in riveria line and I wonder with 805 on horizon will it be more of same unfixed bug with that

 

There is certainly an element of price gouging going on. The acolytes point to it being a niche product and high development costs but the whole point in expanding TSW to consoles was to bring in a broader user base and more revenue. It’s not like DTG are doing this from a converted container or backstreet garage, they can afford to run a plush office in one of the most expensive areas of the UK.

I certainly feel for 2026 there should at least be a price freeze on DLC and it is also high time, as mentioned many times previously, that older items are permanently reduced in price.

As previously mentioned there are also huge disparities in quality. £33 for the excellent WCML Over Shap vs £30 for the dire lackadaisical Cardiff City Network. And no, that does not mean the former should have been an even higher price!

TSW is very expensive compared to the likes of ETS2, Snowrunner or even the stuff we are now seeing emerge for SimRail.

 

Correct. Thats what i was pointing out. When you been a teenager is 35€ a lot of money so the question about quality and/of value isnt a fair discussion in this case.

 

Perhaps the question is whether full-priced content can be considered as good value for the money or not? Much depends on:
- how desirable to the purchaser it is in terms of subject matter interest
- whether the route feels 'complete' and not been excessively cut back to minimise development time
- whether new rolling stock is provided and that it is appropriate to the route's time period and location
- whether the content gets the necessary attention to detail, care and bug fixing before release

It seems to me that the last point is where players are most dissatisfied. In addition, it seems older content sometimes starts breaking with new releases of TSW, but these are rarely addressed. Players can therefore rightly feel short-changed with regard to the usable 'life expectancy' of the content.

 

Everything about trains is expensive. TSW add-ons, riding actual trains, model trains...

 

Again it depends on what your'e income is. For people they earn 8000€/£ a month its cheap for people they earn 800€/£ its expensive.

 

I'm fine with the prices for new DLC when it's good quality and fixes are done quickly (so pretty much only just Trains). The rest I just wait for a sale.

What I'm not so happy about is the fact that old DLC such as Rapid Transit which, although I quite like it, is really old and really doesn't justify full price anymore.

 

It's all relative I feel I get my money's worth mostly, whether I buy it full price or in a sale. There has been the odd add-on I have barely touched, SOS and PFR I'm looking at you!

Considering the regular complaints from often the same people, some on here some clearly can't control their spending habits and buy everything and then moan about it!

Something might be value to me but not to someone else and vice-versa.

I've noticed that many people know the cost of everything and the value of nothing and clearly don't run a business, the costs have soared over the last few years. If someone thinks a route should cost the same as it would have in 2018 should have a reality check.

 

Agree with that, older routes don't have features or the detail they do now. Plus some have faults like Rapid Transit.

I was on TVL last night, it felt value for money when I bought it but I wouldn't feel it was worth full price now if I was coming at it from a newcomers perspective.

 

Have you ever stepped outside into the real world? Life is tough. You complaining about pricing for something that is not necessary in life when in other parts of the world people are dying because they cant even get a decent daily meal. Get a grip!

 

Generally Jan firms charge what they can get away with unfortunately…you may not be too familiar with term ‘rip-off Britain’

 

Sorry, but I find this a bit over the top, and maybe it would help to respond a little less emotionally. I think Jan makes a valid point: you have to separate it from the emotional side and look at it more from a practical perspective. And bringing up people living in war zones or other difficult situations always feels like such a conversation stopper to me, because by that logic you’d never be allowed to buy anything again, and it shuts down people who, in my view, are simply asking an honest question.

 

I've vote for the top expensive but this choice is only because the final release isn't perfect.
The problem isn't the price itself but the fact we usually get a route with bugs, some other stuff that's not working well on the trains and services unable to complete...
1 bug it's ok, 2 it's something wing but sometimes it happens, and it's ok, but 3 problems absolutely not.
If you pay for a car, a little scratch it's ok (and they provide to fix the damage), 2 problems maybe left you really angry but if you get another one....!!
Other than this, I'm ok with the price if I'll get a good DLC

 

This logic could be easily extended to "you can't ever complain about anything because someone has it worse" which quite easily unravels it.

 

And yet... a Ford Mustang from 1965 doesn't have a lot of features "modern" cars have. Is that "unfair?"

 

A 1965 Ford Mustang isn't available to purchase brand new! There is a new bloated version which presumably has all the features of a modern Ford.

I didn't mention anything about fairness.

 

Yeah, that is also the case with the "people who only have 800 pounds a month".... if that's true, why are they even looking at video games, which are a luxury? If you barely have enough to eat, should a video game really be a high priority? And teens are just asking for money for their parents so that's not a good argument either.

My point is it's useless to complain beyond a certain point because there is a bottom line of cost that it takes to build a route. I've gone over this in 4-5 threads now. a 4-person crew making $50,000 a year taking 6 months to build a route is going to cost you at least $200,000. More if you're paying for a building, utilities, computers, programs, licenses, etc. Plus DTG takes their cut, not sure how much that is but 10-20% is usually standard. But, even if it's part time from their home after work.... That's maybe 6,000 sales at $40 before you even cover the bills, let alone "make a huge profit."

You can bring that down to $20 if you have 12,000 sales.

By the time you get over 100,000 sales like a "major title" DLC, yes it only costs a couple bucks to cover costs.

TSW doesn't have a million active players buying every DLC.

If you want cheaper stuff, get more friends into TSW. Doubling the player base wouldn't quite halve the cost, but it'd definitely make the DLC cheaper because they could spread the costs out to twice as many customers.

Simply demanding people do stuff for below what it costs them to do just means people will quit making DLC because the job doesn't pay enough. Just like you would in the same situation.

Boss: "I want you to do the same work, but I feel like I want to pay you half as much. That's fair because I said it's fair. If you disagree with me, you're a selfish jerk."

 

Doesn't have to be new. TVL isn't "new."
If you want it to have all the bells and whistles, you can "update" it just like you can "remaster" TVL.
And it'd cost you money.
My point is that the stuff people are demanding in "old routes" didn't exist then, so it takes work to go back and "upgrade" them.

People did say it wasn't "fair" above that older routes aren't up to the "same standards."

Also if people don't like it, the older routes have HUGE sales constantly.
Just they can buy a used car for a steal.
Just realize it's an older car and won't have wireless, bluetooth, backup cameras, etc.

Many people are unrealistic in their demands. I don't in fact think they've run a business or even seen how one is run.
This isn't excusing ever bug and issue, but overall in a general statement like "are all DLC overpriced" it's not an individual breakdown by each DLC.

 

Exactly, I can’t help but agree. I mentioned two extremes, but in reality you have to separate it from the emotional aspect. That’s also something I already pointed out. DTG isn’t a charity but a company with people who, just like us, earn a salary and one that matches the work they do.

And indeed, people who live in wartime conditions or suffer from hunger, as mentioned here, would never even consider having a computer or playing TSW but they’re also not the target audience DTG is aiming for. So you shouldn’t compare those situations with each other.

 

Long time lurker here - but have been around since TSW 2020.

Yes, value is relative to the point if the view of the buyer.

That said, here's my personal subjective take. I think asking £30 for a DLC that is half broken and doesn't run at all well on even moderately powerful hardware is bad value. I think it is a tall ask compared to the other hobby spends that compete for my time and money. The problem is that quite a lot of routes and DLCs are being wheeled out rapidly, without checks and balances, without basic QC and remaining in a malfunctioning state for months after release.

That detracts from their value.

Hence, I get every route on sale - preferably waiting until 50% off. Because I can deal with a route being a basket case if I'm paying £15 for it - everything from kamikaze NPCs, to wonky textures to my personal favourite - the bogies physically flying off the Class 350 if you ever hit the emergency brake - all that good stuff.

£30 or more? Nope.

 

Well THINGS has change. All of tsw dlc used to be cheap until tsw 4 or 5 rolled around. It was easier to buy at the time. Well I guess they have new tech. Making things more expensive to purchase. But I guess that how it goes when knew tech come in.

 

Sorry but I think you are wrong here, now I cant and never will be able to afford a first class transatlantic air ticket, or a 2 night trip on the Orient Express but that doesnt mean that I cant see the value in these nor does it mean its too expensive. By the same token, I am in a fortunate position where I can afford to buy every TSW DLC at full price on release, but that doesnt mean I don't feel that the Class 86 offered value for money at £19.99 or that Cardiff City Commuter wasnt expensive at £29.99. And for both products I waited for a sale until the price reflected the value these products offered.

 

Are you suggesting it’s only acceptable to complain about things which are life threatening?

 

Many interesting things have been said in this topic, but at the end of the day, there remains a tangible reality :

 

And if you remember that the daily online game is approximately 5,000 players across all platforms...

 

I honestly don't know if the "train community" was any bigger in the past. I only know two train guys locally and was never really into any "train stuff" as a kid (you need room to build a whole train set and stuff and video games weren't really a thing) so this is my whole exposure to an actual "large" community.
Was it bigger in the past (before video games) and it's smaller, or has it always been this niche and specialized?
I do know the prices for stuff at the hobby shop down the street are insane for model railroads. It can be $25-30 for a single box car or $40 for a tiny building. To build a whole setup it's thousands of dollars, takes up a whole basement and when it's built it's built.(I've helped build a couple, not mine mind you I don't have the room)
I'm not saying they're the same thing at all, but for me a video game is a lot better investment of money. It doesn't take up the basement, I can swap between trains and routes in a few seconds, and you get to actually "drive" the train with a lot more detail.
For that reason I find TSW much more reasonable and the same arguments could be made for the tiny plastic box car for $25.
"Well it's only a cheap little bit of plastic!"
That sells to a finy number of people.
From what the couple guys I know who are into model railroading tell me, it's "always been expensive."
There was never a "cheap" time when it was super cheap, it's always been a small, niche thing for a few collectors.
Small markets mean higher prices.
"Barbie dolls" and "fidget spinners" are really cheap because they make a LOT of them.
Things cost what they cost. That's "cost."
What they mean to you is "value."
"Cost" is objective. It is what it is.
"Value" is subjective. It's whatever you happen to feel that day.
"Expensive" or "Cheap" are "value" judgements, like "too hot" or "too cold."
Whatever temperature it is out...that's what the temperature is.
Whether you LIKE the temperature is up to you.

Saying "This thing should be cheaper" is the same as saying "I sure wish it were warmer out."

 

Clearly not but put things into perspective please.

 

On the contrary. I and the other " constructively critical " ( which you continue to describe as " moaning " ) players are very choosy about what we buy, especially day one. And we certainly don't " moan " about everything. Your mindset is hard to figure except as a devoted disciple.

It shouldn't. It should depend on supply and demand. In TSW's case, that is skewed in DTG's favor because you produce the only viable train SIM at the moment. Some real competition would certainly affect your pricing, probably in a downward direction.

And " value " is certainly not purely subjective. As a developer and publisher, DTG has a lot of control over the value of its product. Again, lack of viable competition allows DTG to release products of questionable value. Not in all routes and locos, some have been excellent, but others have been less than value for $39.99, especially for console players, but also for PC players. Hence, many of us wait to shop the sales in order to match the value with what we're willing to pay.

 

Cheers Thomas .

 

I think what you’re saying is overly optimistic. I believe many people will still buy it and won’t be nearly as critical. But well, it’s your word against mine.