A Little Bit Of Positivity

I just wanted to share my last week or so with TSW because I've actually started to really enjoy TSW again.

But before I get into it I have a confession to make. For all the glory I give Just Trains I never actually bought WCMLOS, I loved the detail and the look but I thought that long distance runs were just not my thing.

And I have to say I was totally wrong. Actually sitting down to play WCMLOS (not watching it on stream) has actually been a breath of fresh air. The 87 is actually a dream to drive. The learning curve with the tap changer has been really good fun!

My first run consisted of preparing for the 2nd neutral section, running down into off and then being quite pleased with myself. Unfortunately this was then immediately followed by blasting through the speed change and resulting curve about 20mph over the speed limit! Thankfully the MK3 buffet is closed, otherwise the tea and sandwiches would've been everywhere (Sorry Vern).

All of the liveries and layers combined with the challenge of driving the 87 has been really refreshing and it's got me enjoying TSW again. I even sat for an extra 10 minutes to watch a 40 depart from Carlisle and say watching the gronks hauling their trains through the station!

Also, I'm on Xbox with all layers except FS and the route runs beautifully although lose a little FPS at Carlisle, no blurry textures at all. All I can say is bring on Preston - Crewe! Although I'll be busy with this one for the time being!

 

It's the best route by far.

Does blur in timetable mode on Xbox unfortunately. Not as bad as others though.

 

One off the best routes in the game so much variety and that era is just awsome. If wanna buy the 86 wait for the sale if goes on sale £20 is a little pricey too be honest it doesn’t even get its own timetable just piggy backs of the 87s.

 

I've noticed any blurring on Series X yet. But I quit/close the game between uses which apparently helps.

 

I go through times where I really get sucked into this route and over the past week I've been doing a daily return service. Even though I do enjoy the modern era I think this, and Blackpool Branches, are so atmospheric especially in the winter and evenings. The glow of the lights in the stations and the squealing of the train at full power are really good.

 

I think £20 is absolutely acceptable. You’re getting a train that is of far higher standard than anything DTG put out, and lovely mk2 coaches thrown is as well. Not to mention all the liveries and variants.

 

At least with the 86 you know you're getting value for money.

 

I'll have to agree to disagree with you both, yes it looks fine but in terms of game play I dont think its worth £20 at all. In fact I paid £16 (got it with 20% off) and I still feel I paid too much. Had I known that I could have waited and got an 86 of the same quality in a JT route (which based on their first 2 will be top quality) for probably £35-£40 Id have held back and waited and picked up the 86 in a half price sale along the line

 

So you really don't think a loco DLC with new coaches and multiple liveris isn't worth it's asking price? When other similar content has far less to offer and is often similarly priced?

I'm not having a jab. Its just interesting.

 

We dont know how much Preston Crewe is going to retail for, however lets assume its a maximum of £40. For this money we're going to get a brand new variant of the class 86, a heavily reworked 47 in a new variant, a highly detailed route and an extensive timetable.

The rose tinted glasses wearer is going to say this is a steal and its probably is, but if it does retail at around double the price of the orignal 86 which came with zero no new services, do you really think by comparison the 86 DLC is value for money?

Now I get for some the interior detailing of coaches is a big thing, but frankly Ive probably spent less than 0.1% of my TSW time inside a coach and for me gameplay and additional services are more valuable than a detailed buffet car interior. YMMV and thats totally fine, we are all entitled and free to have our own opinion on these matters.

 

I understand what you are saying jack. But when I buy a dlc for any game I look at the playability of and if its worth the price. Im paying not fussed about how many colours it comes in and if it has different interior. But for the 86 has not much playability due the fact it has around 25 to 30 jobs. And once I bought it I had already done half of them with the 87. And it only has a few railtour jobs aswell. If it had its own timetable with a few more jobs then yeah definitely worth it.

 

I almost didn’t buy that route on day one because I didn’t fancy it at that price point, but impulsively I just went for it and it was one of the best things I ever did. It’s the best route in the game by an absolute mile

 

Yeah, I can see where you're coming from, and certainly the fact it's services were already available before it released can be off-putting I suppose.

I just like the fact I was given a new toy to play with.

 

I like having new interiors and such. The more the better to me. Gives the kid in me more to play around with.

But it is cheap when you view their next route includes pretty much the same thing (albeit there are differences however minor), I can see that.

I just like having more toys.

 

Surely value for money is subjective? I think all the JT content has been value for money. The 86 and mark 2's in my opinion make the route far more representative of what it would have been in 1986, without the class 86 it just wasn't realistic. That for me makes it value for money.

For those who just think the 86 is an 87 with an extra window then it probably might not be value for money.

 

Got to be my fav route in TSW by a very large margin, and the sound of those fans spooling up on the 86/87 makes me smile every time, still think the tic from the spirax valve is to quite tho

Damn shame they didnt layer in the 31 more tho, was a common sight in preston running local stoppers with 3 to 4 mk2s, hell used to get one every morning with my bike to get to work.

 

It's my favourite DLC and with the 86 and all other layers the route is an absolute to drive, ride as a passenger or even just train spot at a location.

 

Yup, even the valley lines timetable. That's ideal for a short squirt of TSW in between pretending to do my self assement, pretending to work, pretending to parent, pretending to make supper, etc. They loves their choo choos

 

It’s obvious we’re all JT fan boys/girls.
Does the price reflects the entertainment value? That answer should be pretty clear.

 

It’s such a lovely route and the 86 DLC only adds to it. Certainly one of my favourites in TSW. I didn’t have much time for this one recently, but I’m thinking I’ll have to make some time for it again

 

I didn't want to get it when it came out as I was still having alot of fun with BPO but I finally gave in and love it. Even the long distance stuff doesn't feel like over an hour if you have the driver vigilance on. There's alot to keep you focused. I still go back to BPO but I'm hopeful and waiting for them to rework the timetable and layers to add in the 86/87.

There is a good class 31 service the kingmoor shap hardendale freight. Do all parts including the LE moves from the depot and do it in ether may and September (I think) for both parts you get a good sun rise and sun set during the run up and down. Clear weather with a little mist. Great run

 

It's my favourite route too, there's a good mixture of short and long runs, freight & passenger. As others have said the 86 really does add to to the route, and JT's strategy of focussing on one hub and working out from there is really paying off. It's one of the most 'alive' feeling routes we have with all the layered content, and it's only going to get better with the next two routes. Both AC locos are great and have lots of features to keep you on your toes. Perhaps we'll see random faults one day implemented which would only add to the immersion (and be realistic for British Rail haha)

I also very much appreciate as someone who isn't really interested in modern content how JT are the only developer currently flying the flag for historic UK content.

 

Is JT becoming what AP was (and still is) for TS20xx/TSC ?
Perhaps even more, as AP was focused on rolling stock.
We can only rejoice, but still, hope AP will come to TSW one day !

 

Personally I think the 86 is value for money, it came with the MkII Aircons as well as Vern's RMB, it was a shame however that they copped out a bit on the freight front as "these were the passenger subclass" and I hope that come the release of P2C with the freight 86 that they add in some new freight runs as layers on the Shap route.

With regard to Preston - Crewe, aside from the 86 "freighter" and rebuilt 47/3s we'd also be getting some nice new Class 20s with multiple versions. I hope they chuck in plenty of new wagons as it's pretty clear that freight is a big part of this upcoming DLC. I did however think of something earlier, the summer of 1986 saw a lot of weekend diversions due to the rebuilding of one of the junctions near Preston (I can't remember if it was Lostock Hall or Leyland) which meant there was a lot of "interesting" drags from Wigan. Then again, if it's a weekday timetable it should be normal running

Anyhow, if you excuse me ladies & gents, I've got an 87 to thrash up Shap

 

Hopefully JT can fill that void of not having AP involved with TSW, but man do i miss there sound packs, TSW is way better graphically but sound wise TS classic has it whipped, and i suppose my biggest gripe between classic and TSW is weight, not sure what i would pin it down to but classic feels like your pulling a load, whereas TSW i don't know seems to lack that feeling of mass and inertia.

 

Indeed there were, and will be, some nice additions.
To be fair, I have to mention Athena's air-braked Mk1s too. I know some people here did buy that DLC only to get those (as I did).

But still I miss an Mk3 Sleeper (that could be re-liveried to represent the Night Riviera on the relevant routes) !

I'm aware of what has been said elsewhere on this forum in regard timetables and multiple stock/DLCs/layers. With all the new content, it's becoming tricky.
Still I would find it interesting to have the choice between week, sunday, holidays, etc timetables (and the NPC to be present accordingly...).

I agree, audio is lagging behind.
In this regard, the work on the Class 805 seems to be a good job.

Yes but don't forget that bug/core limitation in TS where you gain speed uphill and vice versa.
I feel that as uttermost immersion killing when pulling heavy haul.

 

This is probably my favourite route in the game, and It's nice to see others enjoying it as well. I'm especially fan of the Class 86/87s, both the aesthetics and tap changer gameplay elevates them for me. Hopefully it won't be too long until we can go south to Crewe.

I think the sounds are hit or miss in TSW, and DTG have been getting better over the years. A lot of older trains lack depth, running sounds and use external engine audio for the cab. At the same time there are good examples like the Class 465 and the VTG Eanos wagons. JT has been doing well in that regard, where I haven't seen many praising it for the sounds, but I think the Mk2f stock has great sounds.
Sometimes the physics hold the sounds back though because the audio is more closely tied to TSW's more complex physics system than in TSC (According to DTG atleast). The original Class 150 was a good example of that.

 

I don't have WCMLOS, however have been eyeing it as it does look good. I'm a big German player so I don't think I will have any layers from other routes to make the railscene more lively. Should I wait for a sale or purchase it now?

Keep in mind, I'm playing this on Steam.

 

Depends on when next sales are scheduled.
And maybe there won't be much discount then, as they know this route is widely appreciated.

It was a Day One purchase for me and didn't regret it at all even though I prefer modern routes.
But I only play UK content, so it's up to you whether you want to make the step.
What's certain is that it's a good gateway to UK content.

Regarding layers, I don't have them in mind bar the Class 86, which is not necessarily essential for the route to be lively.
I feel it would be interesting anyway, even if you don't own much UK content.

Performance wise, you shouldn't have problems if you're not too crazy with graphical settings.
I'm on a 2020 laptop and it's absolutely fine.

Hope this helps

 

Talking about layers i must admit I'm enjoying the 2019 WCML Timetable a lot, shame DTG don't give out access to modify route speed limits (or It's just not technically possible, maybe pre-baked into the route at a base level) didn't really get to experience the modern WCML as i moved to Scotland back in the 90s, dragging freight over shap never gets boring no matter the era tho

 

the loco looks amazing and the actual physical content is not the problem; my issue is that it only substitutes into the 87 timetable, plus another variant of the 86 is coming with preston-crewe, so i’m very reluctant to pay another £20 for basically the same thing here. besides, i’m quite happy with the 87.

 

The question is this though: the Class 86 services not in the timetable until the loco comes along (which would result in a sparse timetable), or them being available from the start until the class 86 comes.

Me, I prefer the latter. Can't stand sparse timetables just because a certain train hasn't yet been made.

 

IIRC the class 86 did not come with a new timetable all the class 86 done was remove class 87 services that were intended for class 86 services and replaces the 86, NO new services got added with the 86 iirc

 

It took me a while to really appreciate long distance runs too. The physics improvements and the gradient indication on the HUD have been literal game changers.

 

I didn't say it added new services. Nor did I imply such a thing.

I said it was preferable to have those services already present utilising the Class 87 rather than miss them out until the Class 86 came along.

 

Lots of comments about the CL86 pack here but, correct me if I'm wrong, no comment at all about the fact that the coaches have all been incorrectly named (behind the scenes) meaning that Community Liveries cannot be applied to them and used in-game.

To me, whether I think the pack is value for money or not, this just means that the pack is broken. (You cannot even apply a livery, and use it in-game, on the Mk1 Buffet which was the 1 vehicle that everyone was hoping to be able to use due to this error).

Interestingly, despite me and others, posting about this on a regular basis JT have never acknowledged the matter.
Now that is very curious.

 

i’m not sure if i was unclear or i’m just easily confused- or possibly also wrong. but the 86 didn’t add any new services? it was purely a layer which significantly reduces my desire for a loco

 

Hi Spikeyorks, I was able re-skin the Mk1 RMB on C.Club, it can be done at least on XBox, it’s listed under JT Mk2F BSO (confusingly !)

 

That's very interesting

On reading this I went back and looked at my 4 liveries for the Mk1 Buffet. According to the game, these were all created on the (equally confusingly) Mk3a RMD model. However, if I go into Formation Builder then the liveries appear against the Mk2F-TSO model.

And here is one of them. An SR Buffet car normally used on my 'fake' 4-BEP unit. (Photos taken from a scenario on GOBLIN).



So, like you, I can produce and get a livery into the game. However mine appears on a different 'model' to yours. And neither of us produce a livery on the correct model

Not sure what we've learned here to be honest.

 

I think the official engineering term is square peg round hole

 

…Never be defeated ! we’ll always find a ‘work-around’…I noticed too that the bodyside paint bleeds into the underframe & I missed out the white steps !

 

I'm certain JT said around the release of WCMLOS that some of the existing services with 87s and Mk2a-c coaches would be replaced by the 86 with the air conditioned Mk2s. They've also said it will layer on relevant future releases, so it will appear in Crewe to Preston and on future electric routes.

Personally, I think the 86 is brilliantly captured in 3d by JT but apart from not having the performance of an 87 the driving experience in the 86 isn't much of a difference. I only really got it when I did to make WCMLOS more realistic and in the hope the 86/2 will needed for a retro GEML DLC at some point.

 

Where all the 86s limited to 100mph, as i remember as a kid seeing them on the push-pull runs with the mk3s and DVT in Preston, did they re-gear a few for 110mph work or something.

 

I know that 3 Class 86s were upgraded for 110mph in 1971/2; E3143/50/91 and eventually designated 86/1 under TOPS becoming 86103/02/01 respectively.

I don't have a date when they reverted to 100mph but they're not shown in Ian Allan or Platform 5 stock books as 110mph by the time those publications started to add more detail about each type of traction in the early 1980s. We have former NW railwaymen in these forums who may know more but I assume they were done either to test pantographs ahead of the completion of the Class 87s or to bolster the express fleet while the 87s were being introduced (because Western Region needed LMRs Class 50s asap so they could withdraw their "non-standard" Class 52s).

 

Yes they did and it does indeed replace the "cross country" diagrams that the 87s were temporarily covering on Shap. Once Preston/Crewe is out it should layer onto passenger services on that too

They did do a great job however there is one pretty big flaw in the exterior model, the bogie bolster sits way too low and is barely above the track. It's a shame as it does stand out but they've not said anything about fixing it and I think when we saw the publicity photos for the Preston/Crewe run they only included one 86 image and I'm sure it was just the Shap one so no indication that they've fixed it for the upcoming freight version.

They definitely re-geared some down to 80 (and later 75) for freight however three locomotives were re-geared for 110mph as they were converted to 5,000hp test bed locos for the Class 87 development programme (86201/202/203).

EDIT: Having already renumbered them as 86201-203 they changed them again to 86101-103.

 

Cant remember what 86s i saw back then to many yrs ago LOL, must have been those test beds for the 87 as i could imagine having the 100mph limit would have messed with timings otherwise, but thank you for the answers

 

Considering the 86/1s had the same bogies as the 87s, it would be nice to have them in TSW, even though there were ever 3. Plus modern scenarios would be more realistic with 86101 running around.

 

It's been a bit hands on deck at the moment but the issue with the bogies isn't an issue with the external model but with the values for the suspension.

Don't worry it's already resolved for both the /2 and the new /4 and we're compiling stuff for a patch to come out for both that and Preston - Carlisle.