Do You Prefer Modern Routes Or Dated Routes

Why did I mention Simrail ? Because it seems to me that it's a matter of consistency, and that TSW is, and will remain, an assembly of standalone isolated stretches.
A to B in 2019, then B to C in 1986, etc.
You think it's good, I don't appreciate it as much.
So be it, c'est la vie !

 

TSC did have a few routes rereleased in a different era officially, Woodhead comes to mind with a subsequent release set in the late 70s rather than mid 50s, so not impossible to see updated/backdated iterations of routes in the future. Unofficially, there were loads, I even made a backdated steam era GWML and added a number of the London area branches such as Greenford & Brentford. Of course though, the TSC route editor was much more user friendly.

Strictly speaking 'railtours' using BR era rolling stock aren't accurate either, as to run on the national network railtour locos have to have all relevant and current safety equipment fitted. I also think it takes a lot away from the experience of seeing what these routes were like in the past by proposing to exclude these in my opinion.

 

I've seen so many films dealing with historical subjects that were completely off the mark, that I'm now wary of anything that's supposed to represent the past as it was.
Same for video games.
It's somewhat easier for novels, as the author directs our gaze.

 

Absolutely, and it's a problem.
It's worth noting that the Ju52 in Flight Simulator came in two versions, the original one, and the preserved one.
Great job done there.

 

To be honest I think we’re in with a decent shot at getting modern versions of existing BR routes. I certainly think AAS will retread some WCML ground either toward Liverpool or Preston.

Going the other way JT seem likely to take us back to Euston in the 80’s.

Same goes with the likes of an NTP, I’m actually surprised we haven’t seen a modern version of that yet.

Overall though this whole situation is why I want to see 90’s & 2000’s content. Plenty of the UKs existing stock still existed back then & there was a lot more regional movement of said stock.

Take MML for example, take that back 20 odd years & you’d get 43’s, 47’s, 170’s, 222’s and other DMUs besides them. Same goes for modern WCML’s. Back 20 odd years and you get 43’s, 86’s, 90/91’s, 170’s, 220/221’s, 390’s and loads more besides.

 

Overall, the older the trains, the better. The older stuff like the BR Class 87 or BR Class 101 are a lot more engaging to drive and require more attention.

A steam era route done properly would be the absolute pinnacle of TSW - Manual firing, locomotive DLCs to support a full timetable. Seriously, Riviera Line in the 1950’s TSW style would be the absolute dream! Hoping TSG’s efforts to improve the core simulation will tempt some third party talent that focuses on steam over to TSW.

I have grown to appreciate modern stock since playing TSW, never used to be remotely interested it in before I started playing the game - Thoroughly enjoying AABS’ 805 at the moment.

It’s all about variety really! Having a bit of everything is much better than having just modern or just historic. Stops the game from becoming stagnant!

 

Maybe not entirely different eras, but TSW also has 2 versions of the same route -- Isle of Wight - Island Line, one before 2020 and another after modernisation (2022).

 

I still think Time Travel should be coming to the successor of TSW. Pick a route and choose an era you wanna drive it. Can you imagine the amount of money (I mean content) can be made on one route? Every era would be money (I mean DLC).

 

Far North Line (Scotland) 1971 - 1978. Doubt I would play much else.

 

That's not a solution for me. I want to drive historic traction on routes modelled in that era with timetables from that era. Not some kind of half cocked compromise where we only get to drive historic traction on railtours.

If TSW became some large network purely set in the modern day it would be a turn off for me.

Whilst I'd like to see more networks emerge, I would prefer to keep the status quo and have a variety of eras (for me it's not varied enough) at the expense of not having everything in the same era, but with a railtour with a class 47 as some kind of sop.

 

Exactly. If anything, there's quite the irony as the more modern the route, the actual more variety there could be with a mix of newer and older rolling stock operating normal services then, as you say, add in the railtours. All in all, a perfect route and timetable!

 

If that was the case, what modern routes could you run a class 101 DMU on, on a normal service?

 

That's true, you cannot. I was referring more to certain routes or regions - specifically Germany in which you can you have a more modern route, but have the choice of say either a 143, 111 or even the upcoming 420 as examples complementing much newer rolling stock.

Obviously, many modern routes will have no older stock, but those that do, is great in my opinion.

 

The thing the "just make everything modern" crowd is missing is that it's NOT Simrail. By that I mean it's not MEANT to be a 'modern network" with no older traction. TSW is intentionally a historical and "variety" sim with a little bit for everyone, not a single modern network. That's why I said if you like Simrail....play Simrail.
I'm not being rude, I'm cutting to the root of the issue.
You are asking for something that TSW was never designed to be.
It's like hopping on a freight train and then demanding "better seating."
If you want a passenger trip, take a passenger train not a freight train.

TSW is what it is.
Simrail is what it is.
They are completely different games with different goals and experiences.

If you want a "modern UK rail network"....youre better option would be to ask Simrail to expand.
Honestly that's a GOOD idea German fans to ask for from Simrail since they're on the border of Poland, so it wouldn't take much to just extend the lines into Germany sometime.

That's far easier than trying to go back and redo a whole game to make it into something it never was.

Criticizing TSW for not being like Simrail is as silly as criticizing Simrail for not being like TSW.

 

Certainly Germany is better placed in that respect. There are instances in the UK where it would work, something on the former Southern region set around 2003 for example.

 

One thing I'm surprised about is the lack of third parties making route/stock upgrades, so far it's the modding community that's taken on that burden themselves (and doing a damn fine job too) is it just the complexities of UE 4 that's holding them back or is DTG not allowing them the base lvl access they had in TSC, on a side note i wonder if it's a technical limitation in UE 4 that's holding back AP and there legendary sound packs.

 

There’s a few factors preventing any of that IMO.

AP charge what £20ish a pack for TSC stuff, for TSW they’d have to go through DTG & storefronts to get content into the game. After all the cuts they’re probably down to almost half, so they either take a huge loss or charge more for a pack & whilst I appreciate the limited customer base for train sims & the work going into it, there’s still a point where a price just gets too ridiculous for a product.

Then you’ve got the issue of feature sets & duplicate loco models. Look at any 66, 323, 146, dosto etc. Who’s going to spend AP money on a pack that will be outdated within a year. Look at JTs ATW sprinters, you can’t even use them outside of one route (unless you use the SP or free roam which aren’t especially great), put me right off that pack.

The way DTG want to maintain control of TSW is what I believe will kill it. Eventually they’ll get bored of micromanaging all the devs & the content just won’t make it into the game. Thats before all of the issues outlined above with the sloppy way they handle feature sets, duplicating assets & restrict how & where they get used.

 

I voted for older routes but only because I think there aren't enough of them apart from the North of England who will soon have 7 routes that date back to before privatisation.

I'd be happy if DTG released 1 pre-2016 route for every 2 modern UK routes they make. And I be a lot happier if we had some Network South East area and era action in TSW instead of a constant line of modern routes in the South East. That said, I'd be happy to have any of my favourite IRL routes in any era rather than none at all, which is the current situation.

 

But wait, shouldn't they also give a percentage to DTG, since TSC also belongs to DTG?

 

Not necessarily but could be a royalty fee.

In any case it’s much less than actually going through DTG which you need to do to sell TSW content. Then there’s storefront fees which you don’t deal with if you have your own site. The latter is pretty significant too, along the lines of 30% & I doubt DTG are being…fair with their cut.

 

What's stopping them from selling content through their own website, as they're doing now for TSC? The theory that they have to pay for the DTG store on Steam doesn't hold up to scrutiny. As far as I know, JT sells its products, including through its own website.

 

You’re comparing TSC to TSW & they’re not the same thing. If you buy a TSC add on from JT you either get a code to redeem on Steam, or you get an installer & the files go straight into TSC.

For TSW you’d just get the code for steam & download it there. By this point JT has already partnered with & gone through whatever agreement they have in place to distribute those codes.

There is currently no way to cook up your own content & import it into the live game. The only way to do that is through DTG & it’s third party programme. You can change/repurpose existing assets which is what modders currently do, but you cannot then take those assets & resell them as you don’t own them.

 

Technically, it's possible, as modders have demonstrated. The legal issue certainly plays a role, but I don't think it's impossible to resolve it and reach an agreement with DTG.

 

I think you're missing the point there.
They are two different games, true, but both pretend to be train simulators.
If something is better in one than the other, it's not silly to point it out.
This is a discussion forum, we contribute ideas, debate them, and move things forward to try and improve the game.
TSW wasn't designed to represent a network, yet that's what will happen one day.
I maintain that "from A to C" is better than "from A to B and from B to C".
There's no need to rebuild everything from scratch, the solution is simply, for me, to improve the route hopping function.

 

You insist "that's what will happen"... based on what?
It's what you WANT to happen for some reason.
I'm suggesting that if you play both then Simrail expanding is the more successful solution long term to get what you want.
All they have to do is extend their maps since you like their game setup.
TSW would have to overhaul how their game works and change their whole focus and goals.

It IS silly to insist that the less likely and more difficult option should be done or even that it "will happen."
Are you suggesting to Simrail devs that they expand to German or UK routes?

If you're not that seems like what you should be doing to show interest.

 

So you didn't play TS, you didn't see that after all these years, a large portion of the British rail network was represented ?
With the release of the upcoming Trent Valley and the JT Crewe to Preston, it will be possible this year to achieve hundreds of miles on adjacent routes in the game, more than Simrail is offering btw.
It's obvious that we're getting more and more content.
It will be a patchwork in terms of the eras represented, ok, there has to be something for everyone, so be it.
But above all, it will be a "disconnected network", like a chain whose links are juxtaposed without being connected to each other.
It is not a likely (or not) option, that's for sure.
And this network issue, you'll see, we'll be talking about it again very soon... as soon as the next part of WCML is released in fact...

 

It'll be a licensing issue...AP I do not believe have licensing for any of the locos it creates mods for, while further more the liveries aren't apart of the overall packs they sell, they are released as freeware branding packs which allows for the sidestep of requiring licensing.. You cant do that with TSW due to Sony PS + Microsoft XBOX consoles (xbox pc gets around this), they dont allow the release of freeware branding packs due to their T&C.. this is why the modding community is so important, you dont tend to need licensing for freeware..