East Coastway Signal T703

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Sunscreen, Dec 23, 2019.

  1. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Hi All,

    Just after London Road heading east is Signal T703. Ive noticed strange behaviour with this signal summarised in the following screenshots. Can anyone shed any light/information on what it is Im seeing?

    Normal green aspect, line ahead clear:
    Screenshot (56).png

    Signal not displaying on map:
    Screenshot (60).png
    Unlike this one at London Road with a train approaching:
    Screenshot (61).png
    Same signal now showing red with train having passed:
    Screenshot (62).png
    Now T703 with a train having passed:
    Screenshot (65).png
    This signal can show an amber aspect as it did once this train moved on to the next block after the next signal. Im wondering what the logic is of this signal showing green for a block that has a train on it and so should be unavailable/red?
    I hold my hands up at this point and say that my knowledge of home/distant signals, UK signals in general is not complete. What am I missing here in my understanding and is this situation related to the AWS warnings that I receive despite a signal showing green?

    Cheers all.
     
  2. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Edit- I have checked the manual and it does not show this version of the signal. If it supposed to be a distant signal then it appears to be modelled incorrectly with just one lens..see below compared to my screenshot above..

    Screenshot (68).png

    Of interest- "you are not required to take any action at distant signals, but they can be useful etc etc.."

    Same signal but with yellow LED as a result of the train described above leaving the next block causing the next signal to turn red..


    Screenshot (57).png
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 23, 2019
  3. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    Modern LED signals can show multiple colours from the same lens. With four aspect signalling, modern signal heads only have two lenses. Distant signals have one lens these days.
     
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  4. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Thanks Jez. Am I right in thinking this is a distant signal?
     
  5. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    Looks like it but it should turn yellow after a train passes. It shouldn't stay green.
     
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  6. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The previous stop signal will still be at red until the train fully passes the next stop signal, at which point the previous stop signal will clear, so no train would ever be approaching this distant signal until after it changes to yellow when the next stop signal changes to red, as witnessed. The distant signal is linked to the following stop signal, not the trains passing it.
     
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  7. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Thanks Stujoy, great explanation. Appreciate it. Hope youre having a happy holiday :) The distant/home signal concept has never been clear to me but your description has clarified it so no mean achievement. Thanks again.
     
  8. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes thanks for that explanation I too was not aware of that.
     
  9. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    Nope. They change to yellow after they are passed. I see it every day.
     
  10. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    Distant signal TVC856R before and after train passing at South Merton. IMG_20191229_125105255.jpg IMG_20191229_125224613.jpg
    It would explain why distant signals had a separate lever in the old signal boxes. If all it did was mimic the stop signal ahead, there would be no need for a separate lever.

    Signal TVC884 at Sutton Common does the same. Tried to upload a video of it as I was on the train but the file is too large.
     
    Last edited: Dec 29, 2019
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  11. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    The plot thickens! Thanks Jez. I might have to collar a driver at my local station if I get an opportunity..
     
  12. Jez

    Jez Well-Known Member

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    No worries. The train is just visible in the distance on the second shot. I did take this shot just before but it doesn't show the yellow aspect very well. LED signals seem to be very focussed in their light spread. IMG_20191229_125139643.jpg
     
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  13. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    No its fine, I could make out the aspects ok. Im going to read up on uk signalling and see if I cant make sense of whats going on..
     
  14. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Well, you live and learn. There's more to be fixed on the signalling on this route than I thought. Thanks Jez.
     
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  15. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    Sunscreen “you are not required to take any action at distant signals, but they can be useful etc etc..”

    Wow, no disrespect to you, but I can see why trainee or inspiring trainee drivers are told not to read ahead because they will end up confusing themselves and this is a perfect example. You must absolutely start braking if you go past a distant signal that is on especially on the East Coastway route where sections aren’t particularly long- at least reduce it to a manageable speed and take it from there such as 30-40mph. Edit: haha thought that was the rule book but it’s just TSW’s version. But still, my point stands. Sorry if I’m being critical but that statement raised alarm bells in my head and as a driver, I see you as my trainee and I don’t want you to have a SPAD on your record even if it’s on a game haha

    Distant signals are usually denoted by either ‘R’ (meaning Repeater) or a Triangular arrow pointing upwards on the signal plate. There are also ‘RR’ signals as well if you want to immerse yourself into the world of distant signals. It is possible to get double yellows at a distant signal... it can get very confusing and may be something that we see on future British routes.

    There is a SPAD risk associated with absolute block signalling/semaphores such as on the West Somerset Railway. If the distant signal is on, any of the stop signals it corresponds to could be on. For example, distant = ON, first stop signal (called Home signal) = OFF, second stop signal (called Section signal) can still be at danger (or any other stop signals worked by that box can still be at danger). So don’t think just because the first stop signal is off that you can just wack the power wide open because you could be coming up to a red signal. Route knowledge would tell you how many stop signals are worked by that box/ correspond to the distant signal. This isn’t really a risk on the West Somerset Railway because linespeeds are so low that you’re pretty much driving at caution all the time plus there’s very little traffic so you usually get a clear run through.

    Then you’ve got splitting distant signals of which there are many on the GWML- Stockley Junction Up Relief to Up Main, Heathrow Airport Junction Down Main, etc...
     
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  16. Sunscreen

    Sunscreen Guest

    Thats not my quote but thanks for the info- its all useful. Ive uninstalled for the time being until some of the quality of life immersion killers are fixed (sun shining through cab walls etc). I dont aspire to be a train driver btw. I already have a fairly tasty job flying the 777 long haul ;) I play for relaxation and nostalgia. Thanks for your input though, as I said any accurate information is always going to be useful at some point.. :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 25, 2020
  17. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I realised but my point out is that reading stuff in rulebooks (or TSW’s version) without understanding the context could just end up either confusing someone or worse still, making someone think they understand it when they don’t. But you’re right, I shouldn’t be taking this so seriously when this is just a bit of fun :) The handling of the units are so realistic and impressive which is why I probably take it so seriously haha;)

    There are small parts on my route that have 3 aspect signalling with linespeed of 125mph and so you could be going past a single yellow at a silly speed (ok, it’s not a distant signal but similarish situation). Yes, signal sections are longer to make up but still nothing less than either step 5-6 brake application to kill the speed. It would be interesting if they extended GWML further North because there is some of this there in the Didcot area.
     
  18. Olaf the Snowman

    Olaf the Snowman Well-Known Member

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    I meant West not North. Won’t let me edit

    Oh and I’m on my way to getting a PPL so I’m sure I’ll be making plenty of mistakes that will grind your gears :cool:
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2020

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