An Open Letter To Dtg And Rivet Games, Tsw, Slop, And You. Where Do You Draw The Line?

Similar with the 385 which is even worse…. Years ago now they said they would try get a trip up here to get new recordings and they haven’t bothered still….

 

This is the thing that confuses me the most, they have worked with AP in the past for sounds, if they can't get the time or access to the stock why don't they ask AP to help, by either using there pre-existing recordings for TSC, or paying AP to go get new recordings, 1st thing i learned about running a business is delegation, you simply can't do everything yourself no matter how hard you try, and if you do other parts start to suffer from lack of attention.

 

Because that costs money and decreases margins when people will buy stuff with cheap and garbage soundsets anyway.

 

Rivet Games’ Southern 171 and 377/3 pack it’s even harder still.

This will not be a long winded rant, I am just simply looking for answers on why both Rivet and DTG think it’s acceptable to release any addon that is so poorly finished and appears to have had so little care.

For starters, you have the 171, a train that has effectively been sold to us for a fourth time that still has issues from the very first iteration, AI marker lights that are missing, ear splitting sound bugs, parts of the cab lighting up with the headlights, light leaks, and not only that, but you have brand new bugs to enjoy such as 5 fps when looking at exhaust smoke, gangways being different lengths and so on.

Then there’s the 377/3, which not only uses the outdated and worse version of the existing 377, but also still features all of the original bugs too! Coupled together with light bleeding through the model onto the right side marker and headlights, seat collisions still there from the original version, tool tips that are still interactable and making noise despite being removed from the model, a suspension setup that occasional launches the train into space, brake pad models that spin with the wheels, gangways that aren’t animated, an out of date PIS system that not only looks terrible, but displays nothing but the final destination, constant sound issues, and more crucially, missing core features such as guard mode and third rail sparks.

The sheer lack of care and quality that we are expected to pay for is frankly shocking, and I refer back to my main question - Why on earth does DTG and Rivet think this abhorrent level of quality and care is even remotely acceptable to try and sell to us? More-so onto to DTG who have been very happy to push content like this out to us from both themselves and multiple parties.

I don’t want platitudes, I don’t want reductive remarks, I don’t want to hear the team are once more allegedly working on fixes to never arrive; I want answers, culpability, solutions and changes. This franchise which we all hold dear has been on a consistent path to becoming Slop Sim World and you have a responsibility to at least uphold a minimum level of quality and finish that should be deemed acceptable, and whatever it is, it should not be this.

Thank you.[/QUOTE]
If anyones been following this for some time then it is time to draw the line.

Simple as. I can’t speak for everyone here but where is the standard. A standard that customers come to expect, the stand or level a person sets, boundaries or line where they are no longer willing to be treated so wrongly. Not ego, respect and allowing justice to the man not the system. Then a standard the company wants to provide its customers. It needs too for its own sake.
If that level of customer satisfaction isn’t there from the off then what does that say about a company conducting business in such a manner.
Quite prepared to allow products to reach market in an unsatisfactory state, only for customers to leave feedback with no real response to the customer question or concerns.

So yes there has to be line. A line where respect is crossed by how DTG evade feedback or any situation of real concern to the individual.
This will only leave customers feeling ignored and uncared for by DTG. Add Ai response to the mix with any feedback or criticism gets lost in the system.

Chasing for answers or time frame when a fix is certain to come. If no one’s gets answers then what options are left?.
Not being rude but what’s your trying to address has been on many members mouths. I’ve said myself some might stand and go against the narrative where others seek comfort in the group mentality. You could try explaining from clarity or emotional reaction and if I was to give you any advice then there is a risk of losing energy.

If I was to be honest (Personally experience) I’ve given DTG and its staff members more than one chance, they took the p#ss.

And they don’t listen to its customers anymore. So why chase a company that gives its customers the run around.

It’s not right and if something ain’t right fix it.
Clearly the chances DTG had to do something have passed.
Ignorance comes with consequences.

Their own making with its once loyal customer base that are no longer there to protect DTG or be able to cover up the mistakes publicly.

Sad, but no time for sympathy.
I support your cause, but use the Fox before releasing the Lion.
We can all talk all day long with this situation and from many angles and perspectives, but one thing remains noise but no movement.

It’s fine drawing a line, but with no eraser to rub the cycle out then you haven’t got all the tools to draw a new one.

Due to the subject matters you are welcome to DM.

✌.

 

I wonder what a long winded rant would have looked like!

 

Never explain to those that ain’t on your level.

They will only bring you down to theirs.

The difference between speaking out is courage to go against the masses looking up.
What they fail to see is the kingdom has already fallen, because the seeds have grown to move the foundations.

When you speak openly you move the foundation and this scares the masses.
Friction isn’t comforting it’s the courage to throw yourself into the fire.

Only the strong do this, the free, not the weak.

✌.

 

Isn't there a contradiction there ?

 

I appreciate the sentiment there mate, but philosophical debate is a bit beyond the purview of this forum, we all know there are problems, we all don't like the situation, and if we could do anything about it, we would re-hashing the same arguments time and time again in different threads just breeds discontent instead of constructive discourse, you made several good points but nothing we all haven't said numerous times before over to many threads to list, at the end of the day DTG will do what they want, until they start loosing more money than there making very little will change, and as consumers it's a double-edged sword do we punish them by not buying, that carries big risks for both parties, would it force DTG to pay more attention to quality or would they just pursue other revenue streams, none of us have come up with a workable solution to this problem.

 

This might help you understand what the law outlines. Your consumer rights 2015.
https://www.gov.uk/government/news/new-rights-for-consumers-when-buying-digital-content
https://commonslibrary.parliament.uk/faulty-goods-digital-content-services-2/

✌.

 

Its simple. If I like the look of something I buy it, if I don't, I don't.

I don't have to have a internal debate as to how it might affect DTG's bottom line, or whether somehow I'm sullying myself.

Some people seem to not be in control of their spending habits, clearly.

If it's working for DTG then they will carry on as they are.

Personally whilst there are reasons to be disgruntled, in my opinion and I know I'm not alone TSW is in the best place it's ever been. It runs smoothly (I am on PC), new features like suspension make it immersive, it looks good, we are getting more variety and more third parties and generally content is improving.

I don't know who "all" is? You can do something about the "situation" (whatever that is), don't buy DLC if you feel it isn't good enough. Simple, end of.

 

"Never wrestle with a pig in the mud: you'll both get dirty, and the pig likes it." ;-)

 

I play on PS5 and I can tell you: apart from the notorious 'blurry' routes the game runs fine. Recent remasters are performing really well.

 

Justice comes in many forms. That’s a workable system, the solution.

A solution can either be met with compromise or opposition.

Basically there is more than one way to skin a cat.
A line has been drawn, if members have done this already then remarks will fade, yet I’ve been saying the same for some time now public.
Trying to find solutions with DTG and like anything when things get left behind by those with the responsibility to deal with its customers before it even reaches this level is why discontent exists, including the same old story.

All this only exists because DTG has failed in its duties leaving a long line of old and new players with many stories of the same nature.
This is out of your control even mine. Manipulation or manufacturing a narrative isn’t needed because now the public see the truth for themselves becomes a correct narrative of discontent amongst users and customers of the forum/ support systems and products.

Therefore if you read between the lines I’ve written lately then you’ll find I’ve been banging on about how DTG treats people for some time and a solution has to be found. Publicly I thrown myself into the crowd when speaking up about product quality and customer service.
Even how could we help DTG because I will agree moaning while endlessly leaking emotional energy via those outbursts of pure frustration may not seem the most effective way yet people will feel like this because again it exists because DTG allowed customers to get this way.

You might have seen a few threads I set up to escape the endless cycle of criticism or un constructive comments to publicly address the wider issues effecting customer and the DTL/TSW community. To get to the root of the problem so all can see, including DTG.
For all to understand the whys and find a way forward. Answers to the wider issues before it becomes a bigger problem.
I even warned DTG to get on top of the narrative or deal with its internal struggles before it gets out of hand.
Past the point of control. DTG Alex even publicly recognised what’s was going on even hinted toward in house struggles that can arise from working with many 3rd parties. The politics of it all.

Moving on to the now tho, publicly customers have had enough. It’s been a long time coming.
Patience has run out for so many old loyal fans and the new customers coming with the same issues and stories filling the gaps left by those that had enough of being treated so poorly.
So I agree with your statement when it comes to reaching no conclusions be for the individual or the wider community. What we’re here for to support each other. To do what’s rights to the individual and if so supporting the community to look at other alternatives if DTG fail to act in any way to protect its own reputation and its customer base.

It’s about doing the right things, because if not this is what can happen. (Years of the same old story).
And why does it exist because DTG created it. This is their reputation, me I’m just a customer that wants fair treatment.

We all do, but if a solution can’t be found then again that is completely down to the individual to seek other alternatives in order to find a resolution yourself seems to want to establish. Ie the meaning behind my statements is that why waste energy here saying the same old story. I see so many leaking energy towards a force that will no longer acknowledge the reality of the situation unfolding.

DTG haven’t listened for a long time, so why continue to waste energy repeating the painful experiences dealing with any company that treats people it’s customers in such fashion.

It’s about doing what’s right, for the benefit of the wider system that governs the business or gaming industry.
And when anyone reaches a point personally or publicly of is this how I’m prepared to be treated and stand up for their own rights.
Respect for once self at the end of the day. NOT ego.

When egos are on show then truth of facts will get lost in pointless debates to boost the egotistical minds.
That’s why solutions are never found and as yourself says still haven’t seen one.

You/we the community will never see one if the company simply doesn’t have its customers interest at the core of their business model.
And yes being sympathetic to those that work hard at DTG isn’t so much my concern. I’m the customer not the boss.
If those teams feel let down then that responsibility falls on those running the show. Again that’s not me, or the community.
I think that’s important to point out. Hard yes, but this is the reality of it all.

DTG, it always revolves around DTG changing the situation. If not then nothing can be resolved here.
That’s clear to see. The writing is on the wall.

Being open with you here too, being the person I am I have tried so many paths to speak with DTG. Be just general customer issues or working with DTG to resolve issues or assist in regaining the narrative. Second to this my overall interest is livery designer and so felt it would add more joy to my experience and possibly that of others running ideas or community projects working alongside DTG as a fan trying to enjoy their time here and on LD.

I’m no longer doing that now. No posting work, no projects, no customer service, or community engagement in a positive light I expect with no hindrance of what DTG causes. Let me point out that’s over 5 years of work. Not to mention the monetary value.
And I will tell you or anyone that I have the right to stand up and say something without apology if any product or issues affect my customer experience. This also applies to anyone that needs support if for the benefit of all not just one. Being a community member.

However on issues still remains, energy. And at the end of the day this is just a game.
Is it all worth the time and mental energy, even spending money on something that might work today but not tomorrow.

Not really no. It’s pointless and the definition of madness is doing the same thing expecting a different outcome.
The community has been doing the same and saying the same for years, so has DTG without nothing changing resulting in the whole situation verging on pure madness. Would it be fair assumption to say both sides are guilty of repeating and ignoring.
This doesn’t at rule out any future discussion taking place be with you or any member that will speak without the public display or the mask.

Talk and discuss like men, not to seek attention or validation from the audience.

To do what’s right for the people because allowing the wrong means we create an environment of wrong doings.
Standing isn’t a sign or act of war/disagreement, it’s a sign of sovereignty to rule over a kingdom of how it’s meant to be.

No living being should be treated wrongly. It will only leave an unbalanced ugly environment.
We can’t control what DTG do, yet we can control and change what’s in our control.

Our own thoughts and actions. To be a force of good, and that’s what matters most here.
To discuss without the need to play the fool in front of the masses.

✌.

 

Jeeezus, can we get this thread shut down?
Its one of the most toxic threads I've seen in years, utterly disproportionate to any possible critique of the devs,

 

Maybe it is,but maybe some people have just had enough of the ongoing issues.Im relatively new to the train sim world,but it has certainly been an eye opener for me with all its niggling issues.I cant say when or if they will get fixed,not that it matters to anybody but i shant be buying anymore dlc or`upgrading`to the next version of TSW.I will play what dlc i have already bought but once im bored with it thats it.
Before the `shut the door on the way out then,turn the lights off etc` replies come in,happy days to you.

 

Goodness gracious it's just a video game pal!!

 

What worries me, as much as there are a number of failings that have caused me problems and annoyances, a large proportion of the issues often raised, well, if I'm being honest I wasn't even aware were problems, the wrong sounds, or looked slightly off until I read many posts on this forum.

I get that a few things can be incredibly annoying and immersion breaking, but if you're sitting at home playing on a PC/Console in a gaming chair, I've not found it all that immersive if I'm controlling a train with a console controller. Hopefully with the days getting longer and there being more sunlight in each day, things will get better for some.

 

There’s no way anyone reads more than 1 or 2 paragraphs, right?

 

Thats our rivet. Always make a hash of something. Hahahahahha