PC Loco / Straight Brake Question

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Mr T, Dec 22, 2019.

  1. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

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    Lately I've been using the loco / straight brake on some locomotives to keep the train's speed under control in TSW. It works quite well in the game but I suspect this isn't recommended practice in real life? I was just curious if anyone here knew if can / should be used that way or not. If the train has a dynamic brake I'll use that instead but only the American diesels seem to have them.
     
  2. Anthony Pecoraro

    Anthony Pecoraro Well-Known Member

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    The locomotive brake is used to hold a stopped train, or when driving a locomotive only. The train brake is used when you have cars attached.
     
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  3. kalteVollmilch

    kalteVollmilch Well-Known Member

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    The German electric locos have an electric brake as well. It's the right brake lever, however to use it independently of the air brake lever, you have to klick twice on it and then move the lever.
     
  4. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    If the locomotive have dynamic brake, then you should use it. If you use the Loco brake can it gets exhausted (if used long time)
    that is, it gets so hot that it stops braking. and that there will be a lot of wear and tear on it.
    If not the locomotive have not dynamic brake you should use the train brake instead.
     
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  5. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

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    Yeah, this is what I thought. In TSW though, there are no such consequences.. at least, not that I've come across.
     
  6. VION

    VION Active Member

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    On old locos like the UK Class 37 or 40, you can use the direct brake (independent brake) even with cars or wagons coupled only if the electric motors are out of load (i.e. if you move the throttle to the OFF position) and only for quick time to avoid the wear of the shoes and the heat temperature to keep the independent brakes functionning (using the independent brakes is gave as a tips to brake in the DTG manual description). Otherwise you should use the Train brakes on the minimal application even if the throttle is on the ON position that means the electrical motors of the loco are loaded with less than 100 Ampères to keep your speed. (moving the train brake lever alternatively "minimal application" and "Release" as often as you like you don't loose too much air pressure in the main air reservoir so you keep your air stock in a safe limit). In the same mind, if a fail occur on the electrical motors, a warning light fault on the Dashboard is On ( I Believe it is the blue light on the Class 40).
    Althought I could be wrong as I never been a real driver on these type of locos and don't know if the drivers of this era was driving like I say.
     
    Last edited: Dec 26, 2019
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  7. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    No they did not.
    Why on earth would a Driver of a train wish to apply Power and the Brakes at the same time?
    Do people who drive cars put their foot on the Accelerator and Brakes at the Same time?

    Peter
     
  8. BRD

    BRD Well-Known Member

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    Peter, I get your point, but cars work slightly differently than trains. Starting by the behavior of the wheels, or the "clutch" which is something you don't get to manage on most locos.

    I have learned from real train drivers that having a small amount of loco brakes applied and use a bit of traction and releasing the loco brakes right after avoids a sudden pull on the couplers. This was quite helpful on a certain type of locomotives which would put out a rather noticeable amount of power within the first notch.

    Also, how do you start a train on an incline? You cannot let the train going backwards while putting traction, can you? :)

    But back to the original poster's question: Indeed it is not correct to use the loco / independent brakes to brake a train which is carrying wagons or carriages behind. What you do with that is that you'll force the loco brakes to support not only the weight of the locomotive but also of the wagons behind. Hence why you should use the whole train brakes so that both loco and wagons apply brakes. As it was mentioned before, you should also make use of the dynamic brakes in case those are available. These will also reduce the usage of the air brakes ( or the brake shoes, that is ).
     
  9. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

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    Thanks guys. When I posted the question I knew what the short answer would be... but I just wanted to be sure and understand what happens when you're doing the wrong thing in the real world. It would seem in the real world it's not a technique you would commonly employ due to the damage it could cause but in TSW you can get away with doing whatever without any of those consequences. For better simulation of a real driver I'll stay away from the loco brake while coupled up.
     
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  10. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    In real life the drivers usually have a small amount of train brakes applied so the train has a smooth start.

    With newer traction that has a combined Power/Brake handle, like the 166 or 377, the button on the end of the Power/Brake handle keeps a small amount of air in the brakes for a hill start.

    Peter
     
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  11. Digital Draftsman

    Digital Draftsman Well-Known Member

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    You should always make sure the amps are rising when applying power before releasing the brake. This is to prevent the train rolling backwards should the locomotive not actually be applying power, this could be because of an equipment failure or, for example, because the reverser is in the Engine Only/Neutral position.

    Avoiding rolling backwards is critical, as if you run back past a signal you could be conflicting with another train and cause a collision. The best case scenario if you run back past a signal is the signaller will be alerted to an unidentified event and will call an all stop for trains in the area, causing disruption.

    As for appyling power whilst braking, yes you can do that and it's a recognised train handling technique on North American railroads called 'Stretch Braking' or 'Power Braking.' Generally you'll bail off the locomotive brakes whilst doing this, so the locomotive brakes are released, power is applied and the brakes on the freight cars are applied; This streches out the train. Then the power is reduced and the locomotive brake applied in such a way as to keep train stretched until the train stops, usually by bailing off the locomotive brake just as the train comes to a stand. This means once it's time to start the train again there's no slack to be taken up. If done correctly it will reduce the stress on the couplings/drawbar and improve the quality of ride for the cargo on the train.
     
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  12. jetgriff

    jetgriff Well-Known Member

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    Hi Peter, like your website great pics..
    About the use of power and brakes, we used to (well I was second man back in the early days of diesels.) anyway, the driver set power to 1 then controlled the slow speed of the train with loco brake when say going over a weighbridge or loading or unloading a string of wagons.
    There are lots of things we used to do that were not supposed to, but if they were common place and worked we did them. Classed them as "normal practice".
     
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