Thames Valley Branches Discussion

Perhaps the easiest route to scout with a Thames Branches Day Ranger.

However, my simple question: Why no Greenford Branch? Not including Reading West is very acceptable for me but If you want to do this very interesting selection why not cover all those in full...

 

Well I'm not mad at this, I'm definitely biased because GWR is my favourite, however if not anything else this does look to be something different in terms of UK content. I wasn't ever expecting these branches to be in the game since they aren't on GWE, so that's cool, I just wish Greenford branch was also in to complete them... even if the services had to be cut off.
I personally hope one day we can get a route like this but with the Cornish branch lines, it would be way more route, but I feel it could be something great. Considering I don't see the full thing happening with the mainline ever, for reasons.

 

Now i know we have only seen a limited amount of WIP screenshots so far, but I’m nlg i feel what Johannes has said is complete BS. I’m not trying to criticise or hate, however from the screenshots we have seen in the roadmap today, there’s definitely BETTER looking routes specifically Medway Valley By Firefly simulations, As someone who ADORES that route and plays it all the time, (my fav route in the game) it has a unique look and feel to it that sets it apart from any other route in TSW. The devs over at firefly are truly amazing, the scenery on MVL is next level and looks far superior to the scenery on this route, (Again from what we have seen so far) however its not only the scenery that puts MVL in the next tier its the sounds, features and immersion that make it the best route in the game to date! Anyway, i look very much forward to this route and more updates on it, don’t get me wrong it looks decent and could be up there at the top, so I’m exited for Johannes to blow me away! He’s put a BIG statement out there, so bring it on!

 

Just reflecting on this dlc I thinks its more an exercise in scenery with added trains rather than a route with nice scenery!

 

I really hope this route doesn’t have blurry textures like MVL as I’m looking forward to it. Additionally, I’m exited to see what improvements the 165 has and maybe some new unique features to this route would be fab!

 

Nice variety; seems like a nice way to start building out GWE a little more also… and with some shorter runs.

be a shame to waste that lovely modelled Windsor castle and not put it good use on a W&E Riverside to Waterloo (via the soon to be lovely modelled Richmond)

 

It’s possible when You Look at The Bus
You Can expand DLCs

 

Would have been a day one purchase if it included connections to GWE.

But 3 short, disconnected branches? It's more cut-down than Cardiff City, which got widely roasted by the community (i kinda like it but that's beside the point).

It'd be like adding the Port Jefferson and Oyster Bay branches to LIRR, but you only get to run Mineola.

Nah, sorry, not til a major sale.

I like Johannes' work quite a lot, and i'm sure the scenery will be amazing, but the route scope is a miscue imo.

 

With the usual caveat that this is not an area of the network that I have any connection with, but I like the idea. Something a bit different. This could work well on other routes that have self-contained branch services.

I've often wondered whether drivers on short branch runs get bored doing that all morning/all day depending on what the roster is like. I see Waterloo & City Line driver as the dullest railway job imaginable. Though I seem to recall it's part of the main Central Line roster.

 

I was excited when I first saw this, but thinking about it two of the routes are just long sidings, the only route with operational interest is the Marlow branch with the reversal at Bourne end, and two trains at bourne end in peak hours.
I am sure it will be well built, and look fantastic, but operationally rather dull

 

Well another TSW DLC that my wallet will remain shut for.

Sure this route may be beautiful, but it will get boring very quickly especially given how short the services will be. I see no long term replay value in this. This should've been merged with the GWE route.

I look forward to the Mildmay Line Extension

 

I think if you look as is a IRL how the engineers and conductors work shifts are set to work these branches. Basically a shuttle service back and forth, This would be similar to how in the US we have the Princeton branch . It might not be for everyone but I think some might like it.

 

The 42nd Street shuttle also comes to mind and that's only 2,402 feet long and takes 90 seconds to run the whole line

 

I get what you're saying for sure.

My point isn't that they should add fictional services, but just that the shuttle services should be incorporated into the existing route where they literally physically meet (at Maidenhead, Twyford, and Slough). So i could then catch a different train at one of those points on to Paddington or Reading.

Route-hopping feels like too much of a compromise in this circumstance imo.

 

Notably, TSW Add-ons are not made for The Bus.

 

I know the GWE got remaster but do wish their a 2nd vision of route like a remake update route like make it go always to Oxford and Swindon and making 2018 more with full OHLE to Didcot that you can use 80x and 387

 

Notably, The Bus does run on Unreal engine and maps in Unreal engine can be expanded. It's not impossible to do

 

Will it use the 2017 timetable, so it lines up with GWE?

 

Wait 165210 and 165220 not real unit 165 only 165/1 or 165/0 how he did that mistake.

 

Fair .I think once you see it in action you might have a better fell for it and opinion. Imagine waterloo & city line in game

 

That's just not even remotely important at this stage.

 

Also, it's interesting that the service count for just 3 branches will likely be able to exceed the entire Tadami.

 

I wish there would be a GWR Class 158. As it's already in the game in EMR, it would be nice to have as a substitution for the Class 165/166.

 

I always felt that the original Great Western Express was a bit lacking - ie Paddington to Reading (I kind of get why at the time as it was the first mainline UK route) and always hoped that one day, some of the branches would be added - it's really one of the mainlines where these branches do operate in isolation and where route hopping adds up, ie you can do a Paddington to Slough and then jump in a shuttle to Windsor - so a very interesting concept and fills in some gaps - Greenford branch would have been nice too, but overall pleased with this. Would love personally to see the line out to Hammersmith, now that would be a good small extension.

 

I'm actually somewhat interested in this one living down the Marlow branch. I have to say 3 small branch lines isn't an immediate killer for me.

I think it's very interesting he's specifically said the scenery will be unlike anything else in TSW especially after the artwork which was MVL. But I suppose time will tell with this one!

Hoping for a better recreation of Maidenhead in this one

 

If the GWR had been included between the three branches, it would have been a day one purchase.

As it is, it'll probably be something I'll get on sale.

 

My eyes lit up when I seen it on the roadmap but disappointment soon set in when it's not an extension to GWE.

Not for me I'm afraid

 

Is this a route add-on or do they have to purchased separately or as one i am slightly confused or is it free DLC for GWE ? 2/ Why no Greenford Branch line

 

Separate purchase but all three come with it as one. Not free.
Only Johannes can answer your second question!

 

Think I read in another post Johannes had responded because that would have required Paddington to West Ealing to be included as, at the time the route was set, the Greenford services still ran to and from Paddington. They were only curtailed to West Ealing when GWR used the main line paths to start the Paddington to Hayes shuttle with the Class 387's. In which case that also shoots down any argument about not including the GWML portion because all the branches were self contained - at that time both Henley and Bourne End still had peak services to and from Paddington. Frankly, this should have been done in conjunction with Liam's remaster and the three branches fully integrated as part of GWE.

 

I see this as something like a British Niddertalbahn - a really nicely made route that you'll enjoy for the first few runs, then come to every so often, and always enjoy, but not one with the kind of replay value that will keep you coming back all the time. There's definitely a place in TSW for routes like that in addition to the busier ones.

 

Quite honestly I think Johannes would have added these branch lines to the GWE, however the way GWE was built is entirely different to that of modern routes, making it a very difficult task to implement. (I'm sure someone else will be able to articulate on that more).

So given that, I'm quite happy having them as separate branches. I'll grant you all, it's a unique DLC in terms of having 3 independent routes under one umbrella. I've wanted these branches in the game for a while (well ever since GWE launched!). I'm sure Johanne will be able to pull this off. I'm sure these branch lines will offer something unique, and getting a 3 - in - 1 deal, makes it worthwhile for me.

Also, as a Networker connoisseur myself, I'm glad to see a Class 165 is finally making it into the game! There's a fair few differences between the 165 and 166, so this will also offer driving on branch lines included and potentially offering a solution to the 'mock 165s' on the GWE Remaster and fill their places. I was glad Firefly developed to 375/3 and 375/6 for MVL, so I'm also happy to see these unique subclasses and variations of units come to the game as they really do offer something to us proper railway anoraks like myself. For the casual player, I don't think they'd notice much difference, but for the more hardcore we would notice a massive difference, and for me I'm certainly looking forward to the 165!

I'm intrigued to see how a 3 in 1 DLC will be implemented, but this looks like the relaxing 'Sunday Branch line' drive I like to dip into every so often! And with Johannes eye for detail I don't think we'll be disappointed.

One piece of feedback in general that I'd like to see implemented for routes with route hopping is a better transition with the hopping feature. For this, Trent Valley, WCMLS, the JT collection of routes etc... I'd like to see a route hopping feature where at the end of the drive you are given an option to 'continue, or go to main menu' and if you click continue, the same unit number, weather, time and service is transferred across. The route hopping feature at the moment is alright, but doesn't offer the smooth transition that I'm after.

 

Yes, already confirmed on page 1 of this thread.

Same here... As someone who spent 1000+ hours attempting a major extension of the original TSC GWML more than a decade ago, I almost jumped out of my seat on seeing the name of this add-on. I really don't understand the decision to sell it as a standalone DLC, rather than bolting it on to GWE:R as potentially the first of a number of extensions that people have spent years pleading for... It's just been remastered, the visual difference would have been negligible and the old and new could easily have been blended it.

They could then have sold it to existing players of at the reduced price that's been announced, and sold the two add-ons as a full price bundle to any new purchasers. The branches by themselves will offer VERY limited play value and will get boring after two or three runs I think.

Adding in the Greenford branch and building a bunch of scenarios around railtours and royal wedding specials would have been the way to go (who cares if it was 2018?). As mentioned by others, they're all self-contained branches so updating the existing GWE timetable wouldn't have been much of an issue.

Hopefully DTG will rethink and investigate merging it with GWE:R at this late stage, otherwise it's probably going to be a miss from me, which is a shame as I really like Johannes' work...

JB

 

I hope that the aircraft models in this route are the good ones from MAC. We will see theses around Windsor and Slough going in/out of Heathrow as shown in the screenshot with Windsor castle

 

I have no doubt that Johannes is going to make another very fine derailed route. The only thing that bothers me is this could be another CCN dilemma, little snippets of routes with short journey times.
Taking the Marlow branch as an example with 5 stations, if this segment doesn’t give me at least 30 minutes of driving time then it’s not going to appeal to me. One of the reasons I can’t stand or enjoy CCN is how short the journey times are.
I will be keeping an eye on this one. I hope I’m proven wrong.

 

I cannot agree more, this is definitely the feature that I most ardently desire !

But I think this question of seamless transitions will arise more and more in the future as we'll get more content (contiguous routes).

However, I don't see merging as a suitable solution as it's too demanding in terms of performance (maybe not so much here but in general).
Sure, a loading screen isn't great, but it's not the end of the world either.

 

That’s where route hopping is lacking for me, it’s a great feature, but also it can be a frustrating one sometimes. For example you finish a route at Slough on this Thames Valley dlc and want to catch a train via route hopping on GWR, you could be waiting a while for the next available train to jump into and take over.

A better solution would be to have the option to spawn in any of the available locos that exist on the route, and timetable service that’s closest to the last service you finished on your previous route. If you finished your last service at 14:03pm and the next timetable service for the same loco on the second route (via route hopping) is 14:10pm, that should be the time you start it. The game should advance the game time to that.

 

There's a place for them, but frankly that place is to bolt them on to bigger routes, as a way to give players who want a shorter run something easy to do for them. Frankly these branches feel like something that the route should've had from the beginning in 2017, certainly that two mile one if nothing else. As is even at reduced price I can't see myself buying this unless it's only $10 or less. It's like Niddertalbahn, it will be pretty, but I can't see how there's going to be much if any replay value. And unlike that route it really isn't exploring untapped eras or adding interesting new rolling stock. (The 165 club's gonna probably want be beheaded for that comment)

I don't get where people get this from, Matt said the opposite over half a decade ago.

Even ignoring this comment, I mean realistically if you know anything on game development you know levels are loaded in very strategically, a few branches off to the side should not really add any work load.

 

As far as I can see none of the services go further than Twyford Maidenhead or Slough so I really do not see the problem with route hopping as you would have to change trains even if it was one route with GWE. Given the example of Mildmay I assume there will be plenty of main line traffic within the new DLC. Its a picturesque part of England and the screen shots look great to me. In total 2 more stations than the Goblin line and broken up so shorter runs are on offer for when you do not have 30 mins plus for a run. 6 mins for Eton 23 mins for Marlow and 12 minutes for Henley. I am looking forward to it.

 

It's a major problem with TSW, a lack of joined-up thinking...

 

People complain about the A-B nature of many routes in TSW, so it's refreshing to see something different being tried.

And given how long it took for the GWE remaster (a free upgrade carried out in someone's spare time, don't forget), I'm glad the scope wasn't increased by adding these branch lines to it as well. Let alone trying to work out the complexity of how Johannes should be paid for his work on this, which should be a given.

 

Slough to Windsor & Eton Central: 2 miles with an average of 6 minutes journey time.

Marlow to Maidenhead: 4 miles with an average of 23 minutes journey time.

Henley-On-Thames to Twyford: 4 miles with an average of 12 minutes journey time.

It’s a shame none of these branch lines are using GWE main line to give the branch lines some extended play/journey time. AAB studios are re-using the Stafford to Crewe section in their upcoming Trent Valley route, so why can’t Johannes do the same with GWE?

What I’d liked to have seen:

Paddington to Windsor & Eton Central: 19 miles with an average journey time of 25 miles.

Slough to Marlow: 9 miles with an average of 50 minutes journey time.

Reading to Henley-On-Thames: 6 miles with an average of 35 miles journey time.

As it currently stands this route really doesn’t add much in terms of replay ability for me. I’ll see myself getting bored of this route add-on very quickly and pretty much be thinking “what-if”. Yes, CCN I’m looking at you! Barry island *cough*.
Johannes is very talented and judging by the screenshots it does look like a very high level detailed scenic route, but it’s another CCN scenario all over again “it’s over before it starts”. Marlow to Maidenhead is probably the only worthy section I’d see myself enjoying since it lasts roughly 23 minutes. If only Johannes incorporated sections of the GWE into his route then we’d have more fulfilling route length/journey times.

 

Hey everyone

Thanks a lot for all the feedback and discussion, I really appreciate it. I just wanted to explain a few things about the branch lines and the decisions behind the DLC.

In real life, there are no passenger services beyond the endpoints at Slough, Maidenhead, and Twyford. I know some people would like to see the route integrated with GWE, but any through services beyond those branch line endpoints would be fictional. Because of that, adding GWE wouldn’t really introduce any new gameplay to the DLC, it would mostly duplicate content that already exists in the GWE route.

There’s also the fact that GWE is a DTG product, while these branch lines are being developed as an Incredible Trains product, so extending GWE directly isn’t really possible from my side.

Another important aspect is performance. One thing I learned while working on Mildmay is just how performance-intensive a complex timetable can be. On Mildmay, disabling AI layers can improve performance by around 15–20 FPS in busy areas. That’s a huge performance budget, and for this DLC I’ve chosen to invest that budget into more detailed scenery, additional features, and making sure the experience runs smoothly for everyone.

I completely understand if you mainly enjoy long mainline services, in that case, this DLC may simply not be aimed at you, and that’s perfectly okay. But I also know that many players have been asking for branch lines and more varied branch line gameplay for a long time, and that’s exactly what this DLC is designed to deliver.

I’ve also seen some concerns about the lines being disconnected. One way to look at it is that you’re effectively getting three branch lines bundled together in a single DLC, with the added convenience of being able to fast travel between them without needing to return to the main menu.

Thanks again for all the feedback and support!

 

Thanks for the explanation appreciate your time and effort. Now hurry and finish mildmay extension I wanna sink teeth into it of course thats a joke. Still really looking forward it. Happy days mate.

 

Appreciate the feedback, but surely at the time the route was set, there were still through peak services to and from Bourne End and Henley. That was the whole reasoning behind having the two car branch unit locked in on the Marlow section during the peaks, with 3 car formation (might even have been 5 on some trips), covering Bourne End to and from Paddington. If not, then setting it back before the through workings ended, with at least Slough to Twyford represented on the main line would make a far more logical and complete mini network. Otherwise, as others have stated, this makes even less sense than the diminutive Cardiff City route.

 

The branch lines for this route are accurate and not cut short?
The Slough to Windsor & Eton Central line. I couldn’t catch a train from London Paddington to Windsor & Eton Central Line?

 

To be honest I'm quite surprised about the negative feedback on this DLC. I can understand for some of the points why the feedback is negative, but I also can understand why it's done this way. I can understand Johannes not want to be depended on DTG when the branches would be added to GWE and just want to have his own product. Only then he can do everything in his own way and not having to wait for changes by DTG.

I also do understand he not want to remake or just copy / paste parts of GWE, it's already in game and it also make the product larger, more risks of problems and a larger timetable.

I quite like the way this DLC will be done, those branches otherwise wouldn't be in game and I have no problems with shorter routes anyway. Those kind of routes are perfect for when you only have a short amount of time to play. Those branch lines are also scenic, something I really like for a route. I'm always happy to see something going away from the main lines, just a few trains and a more idealic feel to it.

So I really hope this will sell well and other developers will do things like this, also for other countries.

 

Yes exactly, coming from Paddington you would always need to change at Slough/Maidenhead/Twyford to go onto the branchlines

 

I didn’t know that, that makes my previous comment look silly now. Yikes!

 

Looking forward to this, don’t really understand some of the negativity, as one of the most requested things regarding an extension to GWE was the self-contained branch lines. Now we’re getting them, absolutely brilliant! Should be a nice filler release just to spend 10-15 minutes on a service when time is limited.