Gbr Class 802 Discussion Thread

Can you select this livery to use on any timetable runs or is it locked down to a specific timetable only?

 

I think the timing is merely coincidence, I think the newer GBR stuff DFT are protective of the copyright of their intellectual property

 

Yes you can

 

Yet they don't have an issue with the BR blue ones...

 

To be honest I am not a big fan of the livery to be fair.
But all this crying over a a supposed cash grab, really, In a few months time this will all be forgotten about as there will be TSW >Insert version / year here< and guess what you'll be all up in arms with that as its doesnt cross your T's or dot yer i's.
Guys and gals if you want it buy it if you dont just move on.
Regarding the conspiracy theory co incidence in the removal of the "GBR" liveries from the CC , yeah be a bit realistic.
The other thing is just because that livery has been withdrawn from the Creators club it does not delete it from the original creaotrs PC or console so they still have it on their system to play, they just cant share it.

To be honest I personally wouldnt download the liveries as I suffer problems with stuttering and frame drops on any routes that these "reskins" appear on. Yes PC and PS5 as well. Maybe you dont because you're has the dogs danglies in set ups but I and a few others do. Only thing I will download is the odd wagon skin (mainly US or Class 66 livery).

Hentis

 

Because BR is old and isnt current

 

Well Steam offered me the add on as part of a bundle with 10% off, but as I already had ECML and Riviera, I just got 10% off the £4,99 which wasn't too bad.

 

This. License holders will often treat present and historic stuff differently, this has actually been seen in TSW before too. The Freightliner brand for example cleared DTG to use the old liveries from two tone grey up to Powerhaul but they weren't given permission to use the present day Genesee & Wyoming livery. And on the flip side, when doing the Pendolino Avanti were only willing to give them the permission to release the present day refurbished interior version, not the old ex-Virgin version.

Also as I was trying to say in the Discord earlier but for some reason was being absolutely slaughtered for saying it... For people talking about the livery being removed from CC, keep in mind that the DfT is not your average corporate TOC. They are a full blown tax funded division of the UK government. Of course the government is going to reserve and excersize all their rights and protect all their copyright. If anything the takedown of their liveries from CC should have been expected right from day one.

And as for "DTG had a choice in taking this license or not", sure, they absolutely did. But keep in mind that once the full renationalisation has been finalised the DfT will be almost the absolute authority over the entire railway network, and asides from certain regional exceptions where open access operators such as Hull Trains exist, GBR will have a near total monopoly over the entire network going forward. And so the matter of whether or not DTG should have taken the license can be answered by asking one single, very simple question:

After 2027, do you ever want to see a single modern day UK route ever again?

 

Great Blurry Railways lol

 

Oh all the conspiracy theory people are up and active.

The answer they gave is too simple, it can't be true.

 

The exact reason this should’ve been free to you for the on-going blurry texture issues, that constantly ruins your experience. It will probably be fixed by the release of TSW8.

 

And yet they say we are on the right track with blurry textures on recent releases.

I disagree, class 90-blurry textures, expert 145-blurry textures. Stamford-blurry textures.

So I don't know what they have been smoking but new releases have been just as bad as before.

 

Honestly don't think blurry textures can even be fixed. Not until ps6 and xbox helix come out. (And then dtg will make a big deal out of fixing them for those consoles but in reality they'll have done naff all and it'll just be those consoles powerful enough to out muscle dtgs lack of optimisation)

 

Have you ever encountered or heard others talking about videos being copyright struck off of YouTube and subsequently taken down? Or maybe a video where the audio drops in quality at one point because some copyrighted music was edited out? Or even seen ads on a video because a copyright holder decided to take their cut and the original video was demonetised as a result?

Copyright law between the UK and US is almost identical. Any copyright holder is more than able to request any alterations or outright removal of any IP that they own, and as I said above you can trust a literal division of the country's government to utilise that right most of all. Yes, it really is that simple.

 

I reckon so, if the specs of the next gen consoles are anything to go by the PS6 will be rocking specs of a high end tier PC (40GB GDDR7 RAM, RTX 5080/90 graphics, GPU close to the RTX 4080). The Helix will be even more powerful. So yeah, more than enough horse power to snuff out those blurry textures. Can’t wait

 

I think you read my post wrong the 2nd sentence is being sarcastic toward the conspiracy theorists and their thought process.

Not mine. I know how licenses work.

 

Social cues continue to escape me... I will take my embarassment and see myself out.

 

No worries at all. Sarcasim doesn't translate over text very well.

 

Let’s hope this agreement gives DTG access to additional routes and rolling stock. That’s been one of the biggest issues on this side of the pond. Operators like SEPTA and MARTA can’t be represented in TSW or Train Simulator Classic because of licensing restrictions. And let’s not forget that the LIRR and the newer New York–Stamford routes have their safety systems enabled by default due to licensing agreements.

Back in the day, Armstrong Powerhouse used to include the branding and badging directly with their enhancement packs. Now, you have to download them separately from the paid enhancement, even though the branding pack itself is free. I’m sure that has something to do with licensing restrictions. ATS has been doing the same thing with their recent Train Simulator Classic releases, where the branding download is provided separately from the paid train add-on.

 

The train announcements on the Riveria line say “Great British Railways service to” replacing Great Western Railway.

 

Something tells me this was to do with the recent split and sell-off

 

On the contrary, this was the deal as explained upon the release of WCML Over Shap in late 2024 as it was in regards to pre privatisation Freightliner branding appearing on the intermodal wagons, so long before the sell off happened. For all we know the sell off might even change the deal from what it was then.

 

PIS also updated with GBR
I know it’s basic stuff but I wasn’t expecting it to be updated because you know things are often done half heartedly

 

I suspect they don't want it to be true.

 

It has to be said, for a forum that claims it doesn't like people speaking on behalf of the community I hate how often people pull "Whataboutism's" on other things that we may or may not agree with the value on.

To be blunt, the only times I really understand paid cosmetics is when the game's F2P, and that's more because they're being used to pay for the game itself, and keep it free for people who don't want to pay otherwise. I really don't like it in general otherwise, and I would general describe them as "cash grabs", even from companies I do like, SCS as one example.

Bingo, I've wanted to make a post on this for ages, and while it's AI I'd generally state this is a pretty good summary of how I see it. If I went on other forums I lurk and make similar semantic arguments all the time against the phrase I'd probably get banned in those places. There's a literal use of the word, and then there's how the word morphs and gets used in casual conversation. If I used the term cash grab (or more likely rip-off) with my parents or friends they wouldn't need to have a 15 minute argument on if it's accurate or not, they'd get it. In the same way most of us can use literally in non-literal ways without having the word police come after us.

Exaggerating is normal in casual conversation, and the forum could really learn a lot on letting these "word crimes" go. Even if you don't agree with the exact term I'd certainly say "overpriced" is apt, and it's pretty hard to argue against, not just for this, but many other packs.

(Like seriously, why are we using DLC's like the Railbow or ATSF F7 to defend this? Those were hardly universal loved DLC's in the first place)

 

Its not that they were loved its the fact there was not this much hatred directed at those similar products that are the same price and basically the same type of DLC.

So why this time are people all up in arms?

when you read the threads about the trainbow and F7 or the Metrolink Holiday train.

Yes people were not interested but no one was yelling cash grab and being so hateful as they are with this one.

As for things being removed on CC because of licensing is nothing new I've had probably 4 or 5 of my own liveries removed from CC for license violations.

 

The answer is simple. It's called expressing an opinion. The holiday train and f7 were also cash grabs. Also there are some players in the forums who may have not been here when those packs released.

Also, given the relatively poor state the game is in, a cash grab DLC like this would unsurprisingly not be viewed positively

 

The DfT is a government department, if one of the conspiracy theorists wanted they could do a simple FOI request to confirm or disprove their theory that DTG are lying. But I would be surprised if any of them could be bothered

 

You say that, but I remember the Railbow having a pretty nasty thread, with people complaining of the LGBT flag being too political for the game on one hand. And on the other there were other saying it was a cash grab of DTG to try and monetize a DLC based on a pride movement. I'd certainly say that was just as bad, if not worse than any of the discussion going on here.

And I think relating to that, it has to be said threads were shutdown far more during the pre-Focus ran DTG. Which probably artificially made it seem like there was less complaints than there actually was.

I can also attest to myself, there's been times I've remained shutup about certain DLC because threads had became pretty hostile to anyone saying otherwise. I remember particularly getting put off how "aggressively positive" the Holiday Express thread was for example, so I never commented my take on it for that reason.

Doesn't make it right, one of the most hated things I see in gaming is how overly protective a lot of companies are with IP, Nintendo probably being the most notorious. By extension, I know pretty well for fact that enforcement is up to the companies, a direct contrast to Nintendo is Sega. They notably are fine with Sonic fan games and projects existing. So yeah, Britain being pricks about enforcement is very valid to complain about even if it is them, they could just let CC be and allow people to make the liveries. In the same way no sane rail company would enforce their IP rights on a random model railroader for using their livery for a custom.

 

I wouldn't be at all surprised if any FOI request were refused under the exemption for commercial confidentiality.

The DfT are almost certainly being ultra cautious with how the GBR 'brand' and livery is used, as anything to do with the railways is politically sensitive. Ahead of GBR actually becoming a thing, they will only want the shiny new livery showing on shiny new trains, and nothing that could be seized upon and used as a political stick to beat them with.

 

Agreed , should have been free to all that own the unit,and it's also good promotion for the up coming livery change in real life

 

Depends on how the question is framed. If you ask the right question you can avoid this being thrown back as the response.

 

Hi Jan, I posted my blurry textures feedback here yesterday before the feedback thread was open. Could you please move those two posts into the feedback thread?

 

I hope nobody is daft enough to put a FOI request in. It could make things worse if DfT were to take a closer look at this matter to answer the question properly. They could ask for all instances of the double arrow symbol to be removed from CC which would affect not just GBR content but all BR content too. I think at present DTG are turning a blind eye to uses of that symbol but if an official request came from the government they would have to remove every BR livery from CC by law. It’s a bear that should not be poked.

 

We don't want a Dale Charman all over again.
(he's a London Underground driver who had all his in-cab recording stopped by one individual asking a FOI about it)

 

Clearly you have no idea how little most civil servants working with FOI care or are interested in doing more than the bare minimum of work to get the request off their desk.

 

Well then it’s a gamble worth taking. Poke the bear!

 

Oh I think you misunderstood me. I was referring to the those who are calling DTG liars and meant that whilst it is easy to mouth off accusations with zero evidence I’ve be surprised if anyone throwing these baseless accusations around would go to the effort of finding out either way.

I’m happy to take DTG at its word on this

 

LOL gota give DTG props they actually managed to make that livery even worse than it was

 

People will pay companies money for any old rubbish and try to justify its worth. I know where I stand though.
Sweet n Chicken 1 - 0 GBR Livery

 

On the positive side DTG have adopted the revised Steam pricing for foreign accounts so instead of paying an average of 33% above UK prices I would only have to pay the equivalent of £4.58.

I was still not tempted and bought the new Subway Sim DLC instead

 

“I was still not tempted and bought the new Subway Sandwich DLC instead” That’s what I thought you said at the end there when I read the message quickly lol.

I haven’t plucked up the courage to drop the money on Subway Sim 2 yet, I always see the game in the sales on the PSN store, but a huge bulk of my time is invested in The Bus right now. Bus bound is another one on my radar too which I’ll probably pick up soon.

I’m the same I see the bright blue advertisement on my screen, but common sense prevails. May or may not pick this up when it’s discounted over 50% in the coming months, will see.

 

subway sim 2 is decent as is bus bound

 

I agree, they both look decent. I think I read some negative reviews on SS2 and it put me off buying it, but then I watched some gameplay and I was thinking what the hell are they going on about. The reviews probably reflected the current state of the game at launch maybe. I’m pretty sure it’s had substantial patches and improvements since then.