Thames Valley Branches Discussion

If anyone is sceptical about the interest, give this video a watch which goes through the operation in detail


Marlow branch is definitely the star of the show here, definitely the branch I'd head to first

 

Im still really looking forward to it as I live within 1 of the branch lines and the others ive been on oftern. Would.be good if there's a Henley regatta scenario.
Also, you could of done the slough - reading section as the trains used on the branch lines come from reading depot I believe

 

The Token collection could be very fun for Guard Mode if it's implemented. Might finally make it worth playing!

 

No. It's actually 3 full routes.

 

So was a bit surprised to see the Thames Valley route to be honest and then even more surprised to see people wanting the Greenford branch. But Greenford last time I looked in the Thames Valley. Anyhoo, I approach this with a bit of intrepidation much the same as I have done to the Cardiff City Network. SoI have a couple of questions to ask.

So here goes.

Will there be lines either side of Twyford, Maidenhead and Slough that will enable AI only trains to run along them, so the routes are not empty (both passenger and freight), if not whats the reasoning for this?

I take it there will be Route hops available on all three of these stations? As well as on the Great Western Express Remastered?

Overall I have mixed feelings about this, exactley the same way as I did as Cardiff City Network. But yeah we will see.




PS no relation to Henley on Thames either (lol)

 

There are actually good reasons for not merging routes. First of all, Johannes would be depended of other developers for making this route. Also how are you gonna do it when people need 2 or 3 DLC's for a certain experience, if you not own GWE then you're not able to buy the branch lines DLC, or if you own GWE but not branches, there has to be something to stop some services at a certain point but continue if you own the branches. With the technical issues of the game like blurry textures, it's also not that smart to merge routes and make the problem even worse.

So I'm perfectly fine with the way this will be done. As others already mentioned, route hopping could be improved so you get exactly the same train, same service, same weather and so on. But this is only working when the routes are set in the same era and the timetables do match. For example, Frankfurt S-bahn and Linke Rheinstrecke do have route hopping, but are not in the same era and do not have the same trains and services.

 

Very much enjoyed watching this, interesting line and the managing director is a boss (pun intended). It's very clear he like his job and is proud of the line and the history. Thanks for sharing!

 

From the man himself:

 

Whilst I would have preferred it to be an extension of GWE it's not a deal-breaker for me.

I like all different types of railway operation and shuttling up and down a branch line is as much part of railway life as racing along in a Hitachi 8xx is.

I would have preferred it set in 1990 with a network south east class 121 but a proper class 165 is welcome.

 

I think this is a great idea and I´m happy about this announcement. Allthough, as others have said, I would like to see the Greenford branch to complete this DLC. About the Depot moves: are they included in the GWE remaster timetable and if not, could they be added? Then one could "route hop" to do them.

 

Whilst I initially wasn't too hyped for this, livery designer functionality for the 165 has made me a bit more interested.

 

This type of operation is really interesting. Looking forward to doing that myself!

 

This route is growing on me NGL.

Think an angel touched me in the night…

 

The depot moves are in the GWER timetable

 

I hope with the reversal that you can get to the other end before AI driver takes over, like on Glossop.

That is a new cliche.
The old one involves eating

 

Well, then I´m happy with this idea. I assume there is zero freight on the branches. Then it´s only "missing" the Greenford branch and it would be a perfect little DLC. I really like the idea. There are other routes, that could do with a "branch add-on". But I guess this would be problematic, as most other branchlines have through services to some big station on the mainline. At least in Germany that´s mostly the case.

 

By and large it's the case here too.
Cornwall and the GWML seem to stand out a bit in terms of having self-contained branchlines.

 

Having said that the depot moves are included, on the Henley branch for example, the bay platform can’t be accessed directly from the mainline, so the first train of the day runs from platform 4 (up relief) so the services will have to align for that run to be possible on route hopping (and of course the reverse for the last train) I’m sure Johannes will be all over this though.

 

Top marks to Johannes for bringing these lines to the game.

Many of us have requested them including myself and as the Marlow Branch is my local line. I will be interested to see how it looks.

Thank you Johannes for adding the Thames Valley Branch lines to the game.

 

All I will say for people on the fence or the usual “day one” moan and refund brigade. Johannes has been crystal clear about what is and what isn’t included with this DLC.

Slough to Windsor has a 6 minute journey time

Maidenhead to Marlow has a 23 minute journey time, which both turn into split shuttles at Bourne End during the peak.

Twyford to Henley on Thames has a 12 minute journey time.

Hopefully with all that info and info Johannes has provided, it allows people to make an informed decision, so when we hit Day One, there’s no “oh this isn’t long enough” “it’s a cash grab for a such a small route” or “where is the rest of GWE”.

 

In fairness until we know the price point it’s very hard to make an informed decision on if this route will be value for money. You can say he’s being open and upfront and I get that he may not be in a position to confirm the price but we aren’t in a position to make an informed decision. For example personally where my head is at currently is if this is £20 and assuming a similar quality to Mildmay I’m buying but if he’s asking £25+ then sorry it will be waiting for sale.

My position may change as more info comes out and if the 165 is at expert level details and function all of a sudden I wouldn’t mind dropping £30 for it.

 

Some don't seem to be able to make informed choices in any circumstances judging by the amount of apparently "broken" or "unplayable" content which exists, despite numerous streams and threads.

Some will inevitably buy this route then complain, it happens every time.

Personally I'll be getting it unless there is something glaringly wrong with It, it's been stated it won't be full price, which would have been too much in my opinion.

 

That is the right approach but with the way DTG test and roll out content someone else has to pay for the DLC and take the hit. Console users in particular seem to be at risk. How could the Class 90 have gone through a proper console QA / beta and the lack of AWS acknowledgement not be spotted. I cannot be the only controller user on PC and that was missed as well. My understanding is that is that Birmingham to Crew on release was awful on Xbox in particular and I only saw that feedback at first from users on this forum who it seems had paid good money to QA the product. Ambassadors may or may not spot issues but if they are not given console access until the day of release its too late. When beta testers were being asked for Xbox was mentioned as one of the systems that would be in scope. Not sure if Dovetail have an issue with PlayStation beta program.

 

The price will of course be known before the release date, so you can still make that informed decision

 

Looking forward to this route!

Been wanting this for a while...

Always a fan of the quick drive routes, ans GWE is great so this seems perfect. I wonder if this style of DLC will work!

 

This originally wasn't something I was going to get at full price, but the more I see and think about it the more I'm coming round to it.

The post from Johannes definitely helped sway me. I'll wait until others have purchased it first though, see if there are any issues.

 

This is most pleasing to me as I have advocated it for a long time now. My only hope is that,if it's successful, someone will do the remaining branches to Greenford, Brentford, Colnbrook and maybe even some 1960s throwbacks such as Staines West, Uxbridge Vine Street, the larger Windsor and Eton Central, High Wycombe and a larger Henley on Thames, each of which no longer exist.
Thanks Johanes

 

Some will like it, some won't, but based on what people here are asking for, I suspect it'll be a sale purchase for most, at best.

Personally, a 23-minute maximum journey time just doesn't do it for me, regardless of the type of route. It's the main reason I no longer use Manchester Airport Commuter. Once you've had a run on it, that's it, it's the same every time. That and the fact that we're still waiting for the massive kink in the track at Slade Lane Junction to be fixed after almost a year. The limited play value is likely to be felt even more quickly on single-track branches with essentially no other traffic.

The fact it's not been created as an immersion-building extension to GWE is the deal-breaker for me though. People have been crying out for an extension to this route for years, and asking for other routes to be merged or added as extensions (the WCML being a good example), yet here we are with a frustrating standalone DLC and some frankly dubious excuses about not being able to extend routes.

Why dubious? Well, the Hammersmith and City line was extended in both directions for the GWE remaster, so we know it's possible to extend GWE. The Bakerloo Line was released the same year as GWE and most of the route found itself dropped into WCML South four years later, still perfectly useable and with physical connections to the main line tracks. Nothing was stopping DTG from working constructively with Johannes, letting him add these branches to the route and then figuring out a file structure that would allow the extension to layer into the original route as a paid extension..

[Edit : removed a paragraph about TrainSim_TV's roadmap video since it seems it was actually filmed in GWE:R and was not actually a preview of the Thames Valley DLC as I had assumed]

As others here have commented, I'm curious to see how this route is received but that's about it I'm afraid.

JB

 

Isn't that the case for pretty much every timetable?

 

I don't understand your question. I'm talking about the route, but if you want to talk about the timetable then on most routes the timetable features hundreds of different services, in some cases over a thousand, collectively using a dozen or so types of train. So no, it's not the case that once you've done one service you've done them all.

In contrast, Slough to Windsor in a 165 at 11am won't be much different to Slough to Windsor in a 165 at 3pm. That's it, done. Any potential for special workings through to Paddington or weekend engineering trains from one of the yards has been eliminated by the decision to make this a standalone DLC.

 

False. Hammersmith and City was not extended, it was just made usuable. I don´t understand the urge for having it "merged" on to GWE. People should get use to the fact, that merging will never be a thing in TSW. It´s mainly about combining the timetables. That´s where things get difficult and no one has demonstrated it up until this point.

 

That's because he was showing Slough in GWE, not the Thames Valley route.

 

Indeed as I noted previously, all the complex areas of GWE i.e. the junction stations have to be included anyway whether copy and paste from the original/remastered or built from scratch. That includes any loops of freight sidings as you need to go a mile or two in each direction to hide the track ending in a portal. So the only infilling required is the plain line between the locations and intermediate stations at Taplow and Burnham which again would be copy and paste.

As regards the train service, well if there are concerns about performance, focus on the relief lines with the 15 minute interval Turbo service plus freight and have a token 10 minute interval passage of HST’s on the main lines.

 

Those will already be visible from the three terminal stations of the branch lines as AI services. What value would adding the whole line in between add to that? To make these services partially driveable?

 

Yes and to allow for RHTT services between the branches, the ECS movements plus the through trains to and from Paddington in the peak.

 

I know it's not for everyone, nothing ever is, but I truly hope all of the people opposed to this concept wont write it off completely for the future, seeing as I guess we will always have this problem in TSW of missing branches from mainlines. Personally I took some time to find some cab view videos and other bits of this route, I think it will likely become my favourite route in the game, provided there is no major issues with it. I'm not against driving 4 hours straight on a mainline HST or even an IET, have done many in TSC when the game didn't crash, but I always found single track small branch lines with a DMU far more enjoyable.

The whole not being connected to GWE thing just seems like a lose lose situation for Johannes. People are going to complain if it's connected and people are going to complain if it isn't. Never mind if it's even possible or not.

 

The reason Slough looks exactly like it does in GWE is because it's been recorded in GWE. He won't have access to the Thames Valley Lines yet.

 

Fair enough, I watched the section of the video on the Thames Valley Branches DLC and assumed he was one of the ambassadors. I've amended my post to remove my comments / criticism while we wait to see if this new DLC actually does use GWE as a base. Thanks for pointing it out.

Why would people complain if it was connected? I don't remember anyone complaining about the SEHS extension or the fact that WCML South included and was connected to the Bakerloo Line.

The H&C was made useable by being extended.

TSW4: H&C tracks stop at the end of Westbourne Park platforms


TSW6 Remaster: H&C tracks extended by about a mile

 

I wouldn't base anything concrete on what "most" people on here say, I am not even sure most people here have said they won't get it anyway but I can't be bothered going through posts counting. This is a small microcosm of the "community" and if this forum truly represented the majority view TSW probably would have failed in the last few years as most people on here are presumably not buying DLC, apart from those who buy stuff then moan about it.

Driving a DMU along a branch line with no other traffic is as much part of railway life as a busy mainline, so for me personally, it is fine, sometimes I just want to potter about for 20 minutes.

He has stated why it wasn't extended, I don't believe he has said it was impossible.

 

This. 100% agree.

 

You can’t even drive between Slough/Maidenhead/Twyford right 3 separate tracks so essentially 3 different routes.

 

I’m reading a lot of misconceptions that the branch lines don’t extend past the GWR mainline. Then I’m reading from other users that some services do in fact depart from Paddington and venture on to the branch lines. If that’s the case then Paddington really should’ve been merged onto the upcoming TVL, right?

 

I think people would feel that it overlaps GWE / would be selling the same content twice - especially if it included part of the GWML, for example.
Also - Performance. Throwing even more onto GWE could make it unenjoyable for people. (The 165 will probably become a new train rather than a renumbered 166 as it is just now, so that could potentially cause issues).

 

No the "branch services" will be too and from the two "end" stations on each branch. Apparently there will be AI trains on the mainline side of the 3 mainline stations Slough, Maidenhead and Twyford. Quite possibly a mile of track with portals at the end for AI to traverse along the route. A little bit like how the GWR mainline on the WSR Remaster was done.
Thats how I read it. The bit with them thinking Paddington is included is more like their wet dream.

Hentis

 

So if you're going to have main line trains jumping in and out of portals either side of the fully modelled three junction locations, that completely deflates the argument about not just linking all three and having the same train appear once at Dolphin Jn then take out at Twyford West (or vv).

 

So three little routes for $5 each?
I mean... eh.... if that's your thing at least it's a reasonable price.
I don't know that a 2 mile strip from one station to another station is even worth $5 for ME, but if maybe that's your home turf?
It just has one loco too.
Again, for a lark of an afternoon to just do the three and say "yeah I did 'em, it was kinda neat to do once" sure, but is it really replayable?
Then again Isle of Wight is a whole route that's only 8.5 miles so.... *shrugs*

 

Far more limited than Nidder.

 

I really don’t understand why some people on here think that they speak for everyone or that every release should be made for their exact requirements. If a route isn’t for you then great for you, no one is forcing you to buy it.

Personally this fits into the lunch break quick run category and providing it’s not silly prices (and from what I’ve read there’s no reason to think it will be) I’m looking forwards to the pack immensely

 

I haven't seen anyone here thinking Paddington is included, Hentis. The discussion is about whether this DLC should have been built as a long-requested extension to GWE, rather than this standalone package requiring you to route hop between TVB Slough and GWE Slough, TVB Maidenhead and GWE Maidenhead and TVB Twyford and GWE Twyford. It removes the opportunity for some interesting scenarios involving special services or works trains running straight through from the branches to the mainline, turnbacks due to engineering,travelling as passenger to get from Reading or Paddington to start your shift on one of the branches, etc. That's what people are unhappy about, the fact that DTG had a big opportunity to bring more immersion to a route and they've decided to go the opposite way, with three very short branches you'll need to route-hop between.

JB

 

You made your point about 30 posts ago, now you are just labouring your point. It’s not a route you want, we are all very well aware of that fact, but it’s not going to change anything for the reasons that the dev has stated himself (first and foremost GWE isn’t his route to extend). So perhaps walk away and leave the discussion to people who are interested and looking forwards to it, because you aren’t going to change anything.