So sad. Literally the second UK add on I don't own (the first being the Athena Railtour one) and tis all cause of this feedback. Athena it's pretty obvious where the blame lies. This one I've no clue but I am sure that all parties share some of it.
We have to fair about this because… A, We haven’t heard anything from the horses mouth, ATS. B, We haven’t heard anything official from DTG. However in saying this doesn’t mean they (Both) should get off lightly. Someone has to take full responsibility for the situation. Who is tho?, DTG,,ATS?. Apparently the little birds tweet that ATS is waiting on DTG. Now to be fair to ATS in his first original YTV to address the initial release issues he does say and quote: “He can’t do testing for consoles” End quote. So back to square one. And I feel it’s only fair the community has its say if left in the dark again. That fear of oh not again. SLAP ON THE HEAD moments. It’s hard on customers pockets and more importantly their overall morale or mental mood when money is involved. Come on DTG we’re all in the same boat, some people can’t even afford to eat. So if DTG doesn’t work with us the community how can anyone start to support or build new. The more it goes on the worse it will get all round. We buy a product to enjoy, not to Q&A sessions or BETA testers reporting everything back to no avail. I can see how Devs and 3rd parties feel. DTG publish, so does the book stop with them, higher staffed decisions makers. Money men don’t care about games, just the revenue. I often wonder if someone is making DTG struggle, go pop so they can claim the franchise and business. Anyway enough from me, but I am very curious to how all this will finally pan out. There’s enough heat in the pan so no one at DTG can blame the cooker ✌.
Me neither, it's more the timetable which is stopping me at the moment. I'm sure I will get it at some point as I don't doubt it will be improved, I don't believe there is any conspiracy. Still as usual some jumped in and bought it and are now angry.
Well we need some people to jump in and buy DLC otherwise there'd be nobody to report the issues, it's not as if the store description warns potential customers the the product is substandard and doesn't work Still, until DTG get their act together I'm holding off DLC purchases until I've at least seen reviews and / or bugs have been addressed, and mostly buy in sales now. A stark change from two years ago when I'd buy every UK and US DLC on day one, plus any others that might take my fancy. As DTG is the company uploading the DLC to Steam for customers to purchase, as far as I'm concerned it's up to them to test the final builds of their products before release and send it back to the 3rd party if it's deemed unsuitable, which clearly 60 seconds of testing would have identified in the case of the 90 (I don't buy the "wrong build" excuse at all this time around, considering the amount of time it's taking them to retrieve the correct version from one of their servers...) JB
Plenty of streams showing it off and off course the reviewers who make money from slating DLC, which they then refund. Also many have bought it and are happy with It. It seems the most vociferous complainants are the ones buying DLC on a whim.
I think it's perfectly reasonable for people to buy something and expect it to work without any (major) issues. Just as I also think it's perfectly reasonable to be unhappy when it doesn't. Of course, at this point I expect stuff to have major issues at this point, and am glad I held off the 90 (and the 805 for that matter, although both were probably sale purchases anyway)
i bought it day one, I'm mildly annoyed at the day one faults, but overall I'm happy with it, could it have had more timetable slots, aye it could, but you can add your own routes as long as you don't need stopping markers and the like, and tbh the scoring system in TSW means nothing to me, i don't play because i can make a number go up so not running scenarios or proper timetable runs is irrelevant.
I watched a few of the ambassadors' previews and that gave me enough info to not want to buy it. It was indeed that obvious.
It's a shame because the timetables are a mess. When the 70 comes out this would really have been a fantastic route (wcml), you'd have the 66s 90s and 70 on the wembley to tunstead stone The game is feeling less and less aimed at enthusiasts and more a cash building exercise. Ramming out as much content as possible. It's just a matter of trust, If you place any sort of trust in Dovetail games you'd buy things day one. I've always been that sort of person. For 2 decades I buy my games at launch, Nintendo, PlayStation whatever I am not a regular TSW player, I probably play a few hours a month, certainly less than 10 hours. 5 or 6 full route runs through the month and bits here and there. So for me it's not the end of the world when I spend £12 on some DLC that isn't perfect , it's just disappointing when you play it and it reeks
Just bought the 805 addon and even that comes with it's own timetable meaning it can't be used with the 90 unless you spawn one on foot!
A problem that has already been identified by the once loyal community. Ie I have every TSW game so TSW2020 to TSW6, including most add on packs for UK. A lot of DLCs, and a lot of time to fully drive them. I’ve had this discussion a few time here so it’s clearly not just me of because others have mentioned the amount of back catalogue. Some I’ve never even driven. Still new technically, mostly German routes. Down time playing the routes and if things ain’t right would mean time looking for news or leaving comments. A reason why a few now including myself is in no real rush to purchase if new releases have issues or a user has unused content already. A firm response to why I believe DTG need to slow down, it allows players to fully enjoy the product. I mean it can take months for a fix for that to happen and by then another 4 or 5 DLCs has hit the market. Players just don’t have the time to sit down and work through each DLC in time. Why some feel it’s a cash grab for the amount pushed out which tends arrive in a poor state more often than not. Thus pushing back a customer that would buy everything on release has now decided not to repeat such foolish acts. However in fairness to DTG they are a company and do have business partners. To how much financial backing DTG has is open to consideration. Again revenue, DTG has to do what it has to do if a CEO is breathing down someone’s neck at DTG. New products rushed to market leaving staff and 3rd parties feeling the pressure and financial pinch. DTG has to make money to support existing development or future projects, in between remasters. The game is a train game so will offer a lot of options to old and newer players in terms of timetables, if not what else is there to do with a train, fly?. It offers these things, now whether a player uses the product or not is then down to buyer preference. So it’s important to understand this, most have and why they tend to not add any additional routes because of an individual preference or overall long standing situations. So for me, I accept that timetables will mount up because I’ve added the new content. And I accept that the game is a train game so comes with timetables. Plus understand when and what to buy based on my own individual decisions. DTG can’t be blamed for any user having to much content, it worked out better price wise at point of sale. The main problem now is those players with such large back catalogue are now using them over purchasing new products. It makes more sense to wait for reviews or fixes, and by that point is on sale so probably take a pun. The main problem with that tho is the decline in DTGs revenue putting more pressure on the company now and for any longer term strategies. Why I believe in no more distractions for DTG for any real problems will get harder and harder for DTG and the community to fully embrace a working relationship towards a solution. Because words are just words, actions speak louder and if DTG is making small improvements then that’s action. The routes now are absolutely beautiful to a point where it’s hard to notice if it’s a real train or not. We have to give DTG and the 3rd party teams recognition for that, we are seeing some improvements. However there is a lot more to do when it comes to how products reach the consumer and what gets done if any issues are raised. And to achieve this level of customer satisfaction is too reduce release giving DTG more time to focus rather than having to back track wasting more money and resources. And it allows players to player the game or routes before a new one arrives. The back catalogue is huge so there is no shortage of routes for new customers. ✌.
I'm using the Nuclear timetable for WCML South as it appears to be the most complete one. I don't really miss the 805 there, and the 805 introduces blurriness to the route.
does the 20 nuclear pack get added just to the 390 timetable or is it present in the 90 and or 805 timetables as well?
The Nuclear comes with its own timetable, which contains the stuff from the base timetable and the CL v3 intermodal.
Trainsimdriver Seems to suggest its down to ATS to fix I’m pretty sure I have been told on this very forum that ain’t the case once it goes to DTG to be tested or release it’s down to DTG to fix as the 3rd party have no way to fix the problem once it’s sent out it’s out of there hands pretty sure someone told me this on these very forums Quote from Trainsimdriver on his YouTube comments As for the 90 it’s not DTG content it needs fixing but DTG only puts whatever they’re given in the box and sends it out Feel free to correct me might be totally wrong on but I’m sure I have had this conversation with someone
Agree with this, DTG needs to be updating the core timetables with new rolling stock as part of the release process, or getting the 3rd parties to do it for them. We're slowly moving towards a system where each rolling stock DLC is going to have its own timetable that doesn't include other layers... And as for the Class 90, regardless of the minor issue that it doesn't work, the fact that it doesn't appear on Birmingham to Crewe is the main reason I didn't bother buying it. JB
Alan Thomson himself said a few days ago that ATS is working on fixing it, so I'm assuming that's what Trainsimdriver based his claim on.
It will probably get added to the long list of things waiting to be fixed, like flashing hazards on both the 66 and 220, the red beacon light appearing everywhere but where its supposed too, the inability for the 350 to coast below 5mph etc etc etc, i was really looking forward to train faults getting added too, now i have them disabled as i don't think it's very realistic to have every engine in a 220 stall at some point on a 40min journey, as much as i love new content getting added it would be nice for them to pull back for a good couple of months and start bashing these bugs on the heads, as some of these issues are now 4 games old.
That's what I thought but apparently a forum member said that it was up to DTG to fix it, or he was pretty sure he'd been told that!
Yes I seen this comment on YT by ATS himself. It’s was flagged up earlier yesterday due to a return comment. So ATS comment is there to see. ✌.
My fear is that the Class 90 remains with the Athena Class 47 and the BR 187 in my list of uninstalled broken content I’ve wasted my money on. In fairness I should have learnt after the 187 and definitely after the 47 never to buy DLC on day so I’ve only myself to blame for the class 90.
Mmmm, yes. ATS and DTG MIGHT not only be working on the original issue but also additional improvements or additions. Ie built into more routes. After all it would be an act of offering some form of compensation to the fools that’s purchased the class 90. (Me included). So with ATS and DTG silence is the surprise?. But as per usual only time will tell if again it’s been worth the wait or another PR oversight. Worse case scenario is thrown on the forgotten pile that’s already full in some people’s estimates. For those waiting for positive light to shine then the cash is under the floorboards until the shadows casting doubt are removed. ✌.
Maybe they realized there is more than one Class 90 left in the world and are modelling the engine room so the DLC seems less Hornby Railroad.
I seen a comment on ATS page on Facebook saying this replying to someone Harry Lowery I can’t seem to hit reply But the answer is yes but it wouldn’t have been as visible or have had such a large effect on gameplay Basically fixing the AWS bug has meant a large rewrite of the saftey systems and that’s had a knock on effect to other systems We would rather get the first patch correct rather than release a patch that might have fixed 1 thing but broken others
At the end of the day, I don't care if it's a dovetail problem or a problem with a third party developer. We pay dovetail for these broken products. They need to pull their finger out of their backside and take responsibility for the product they are selling, listen to customer feedback, stop ignoring questions about when and if the DLC we have paid good money for is going to be fixed because the question wasnt "forward thinking enough" and start to actually test everything properly before expecting us to pay for more stuff which is either broken on release or gets broken shortly after, never fixed again and ignored because they've already got our money.
Im actually at the stage where I have a substainal collection which for the most part I enjoy and not in any way bored of, so I'm asking myself do I need to play the roulette of getting new DLC and hoping its in a functional state that Id get any value for money from, given that Ive used the class 90 less than 30 minutes before getting frustrated from. I dont want to band about the phase boycott or hypebolia like that, but why should I risk throwing good money after bad and picking up any thing else released by ATS or indeed DTG if they cant be bothered to actually fix content they've sold me that they know isnt fit for purpose and I feel that they mislead many people into not refunding (myself included) with the whole "wrong build uploaded" narative which led us to think it would be a quick fix.
You’d have more luck betting money on a roulette wheel in a casino then parting with your money on working day one content. At least there’s a 50/50 chance you might get some satisfaction from winning than the feeling you’ve thrown money away for broken content.
So it was never "the wrong build was uploaded", huh? Shocked i tells ya! Lol sooo glad i didn't buy this mess
Actions speak louder than words. I’ll believe it when I see it. This is the same team who want to build another route for TSW… They’re not inspiring much confidence.
My thoughts precisely. Approaching 65 and with 95% of the existing TSW content in my collection, probably got enough to keep me occupied until I shuffle off this mortal coil. And that’s without all the other stuff I like to play - still plodding away at Snowrunner. I completed the three OG regions a while back but still have loads to do with the DLC and a couple of maps I haven’t got round to buying yet. As DTL was down last night, figured I’d break off my A to Z route playthrough of TSW and got a whole two missions done on Kola Peninsula! Very zen though. Then there’s the bus and coach add on for ETS2, when it eventually lands which is going to revive my interest over there too. tl:dr DTG and the 3P’s need to work much harder for my money in future.
I held of buying the 90 but got it yesterday along with a couple of other DLCs which were in the sale. I’m on PC so it’s seems ok to me and can be used fine using the DSD on last technique. The available mods also negate the sounds issue. With regard the timetable….. I don’t use any of the standard WCML timetables anyway apart from the Nuclear one when running the 20s as I only use the community 2019 and 2024 timetables so that’s not an issue for me.
No it wasn’t but I got the impression that was just an assumption made here because Alan’s video explained it was a build compiling issue at their end that was the main problem. Everyone was busy blaming DTG when it was also ATS who messed up at their end. There was never a good build. This kind of thing is always going to happen when the devs can’t do console testing and builds are still being compiled right up to the last minute. A last second scramble to fix issues and a tendency for the actual release builds on console to slip through the testing net. March madness isn’t just the name of one of the Steam sales, it’s also a looming deadline mess at DTG.
To be honest i can understand there being unknown bugs and errors on the PC side of things as your compiling and building for a very varied set of hardware and software configurations, but for consoles that excuse doesn't really hold water, as there configuration is a known quantity which leaves only a few conclusions as to why it happens, and if devs are building add-ons without testing properly because they don't have access to the relevant dev-kits, that shows a short sidedness on there part.
That certainly could be the case. Personally, i take all of DTG's explanations with a huge grain of salt anymore. Totally agree that the inability for 3P studios to test on console is a complete mess. Not sure how it can be fixed tbh. Seems financially unfeasible for these smaller devs to obtain test kits themselves and it's not something DTG seem willing to fund on their behalf. Would the community accept staggered release dates (i.e. console release comes a couple of weeks after PC)? I think it could help a lot in theory, but i understand console players worry that it would just lead to Xbox/PS versions getting even less love from the devs and/or end up being delayed indefinitely.
I think at this point the community would accept ritual circles, Gregorian chants and group prayer sessions in the hope some of these bugs get fixed
What will happen first? DTG will learn to communicate and actually patch content, or the community will fall into insanity like the Batman Arkham community and start doing sacrifices in hope that will make content not be broken?
It was not an assumption by the community, at some point people will have to stop constantly defending DTG and saying they've done nothing wrong. Whether it's issues with the core or with third party DLC, it is their product. Quotes from Alan on March 30th: JB
I never defended DTG in that post or said they had done nothing wrong. I was just saying lots of people assumed it was one of those issues where DTG have a good release build and release the wrong one when it wasn’t. If it had been it would have been released shortly after and everything would be fixed. Alan’s video explanation indicates issues all over the shop and not DTG releasing the wrong build. I said that everyone was blaming just DTG for releasing a wrong build when it was a shared issue with both ATS and DTG to blame. There’s more than one kind of build issue. At no point did I say DTG weren’t part of the problem. I think I said they were a mess. If that’s what you call defending them then you have very strange ideas.
Still think it’s best summed up as, ATS released a somewhat inferior product and DTG, as they have done in the past either because of the ££$$€€ signs at the commission they take or they are just too timid or otherwise unwilling to throw back content that doesn’t cut muster, wave it through. And never consider pulling said content from sale when the errors and shortcomings are pointed out.
The longer ATS leave this situation unresolved, the harder it will be to gain people’s trust in the long run. MAC still needs some tweaks, especially the track layout. Yet, they have the cheek to offer this route at minor 20% in the sales. The comedy writes itself. Rivet with all their mishaps and bad press, honestly don’t appear so obsolete now. At least some of their content is a W.
Probably a combination of all of those would be my guess, hopefully it will all even out in the end, goodwill has gotten em this far, but we all know it's not an infinite resource, i know i will be exercising more restraint on future releases, well apart from JTs stuff they have earned my trust.
