I'm not trying to be unfair by purpose. All i do is analysing techniques and possibilities applied to the specific game. Yes, all TS games use asset blocks. But most TS games also have way more distinct iconic building assets that are created route specific, or even spot specific mostly. Running Train has nothing of those, it only uses these blocks and other spline based modular assets. That's why the game only comes with 2.4gig in size. If it would not be fictional, it would have massive problems being build like it is yet. It only runs smoothly because of these things being present (fictional, not terrain specific but grid placed, no iconic buildings needed) and again basically no trees other than these huge blobs of low dense mesh with normal mapped painting on it, a technique motsly used for far far away forests on lots of AAA games).
So, are we doomed to contemplate such "masterpieces"? https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/lirr-commuter-feedback-thread.81073/page-16#post-1114823 You know, all your arguments are insufficient in the context of routes like LIRR, where the tracks and the ground textures clearly should not have come together. Of course, this doesn't happen on all routes, but sometimes the laziness of the DTG can only be cured by the forced use of a tool that doesn't allow it to screw up so badly. I mean, how can you compare the low quality tracks in the Running Train with this divine transition?
But i'm not talking specific routes, i am talking possibilities and techniques. Pure analysis, nothing else. I want to tell that Running Train is not the new TSW Killer game what lots of people think and pushing out into the world so everyone knows how bad TSW is and what a masterpiece that new competing game is to TSW. It not that at all, that is my mission to tell I don't care specific route problems, i don't even have or know all routes in TSW.
An important point to also remember, is that a push to match TSW to the more lifelike appearance of Running Train is going to push the hardware specs much higher. I’m running it on a PC which, CPU wise, is less than the recommended minimum with the settings dialled down. However a new train game from DTG which raises the minimum spec significantly means new PC time for sure and the inevitable issues with consoles, particularly XBox. To me Running Train is essentially a successor to BVE and hopefully some real world routes will follow. However there are gameplay issues which may make it less appealing to the more casual TSW players. No save game which is not a huge issue at present as the longest run is about 45 minutes. The very rigid driver performance requirements, stopping within 4m of the defined mark, losing significant points for lateness (I assume if the score bar gets to zero, the game terminates). Again if you played Densha de Go back in the day much of this will be familiar. At this point I’m keeping an open mind and my main wish is it doesn’t go the way of Train Crew or Hakodate Tram.
Of course, Running Train isn't even a simulator, in my opinion. But in the eyes of people, this is a game about trains, where there are much fewer visual bugs, where the lighting is better, where there is no ugly pale haze, where a nice looking rain instead of a wall of spaghetti, where there are no stutters, where the 1080p doesn't look like it upscaled from 640x480, where the frame rate does not drop because there are 3 AI trains with MultiLevel coaches from Morristown on the screen.
From a technical standpoint, a clear NO. BVE is more a TS with DLC/UGC capabilities than Running Train can ever be (at this current state and how the game is made). RT will never have DLC and probably never have real world routes. Just down to the way how it is made it can't do this. BUT at the same time i am definitely not sure what the dev is able to do further down the line. But he would need to re-think the whole game architecture and introduce tile streaming and rebasing and such. Physics on the other hand is not really a need i would say. It's ok how it is, what is still not real physics at all ( i maybe come back to that part when i am 100% sure how the tracks and trains work).
Yeah i don't know the techinical aspects tbh but just as a player Running Train is very strong in art direction and creating a convincing sense of place using a performance-friendly pool of assets, which has often been a weakness in TSW. This is an area in TSW, where 3rd-parties have generally been better (TSG and JT spring immediately to mind), which makes sense as they probably have a more flexible time budget than DTG. But, no, it's not a TSW killer by any means- most similar to Train Crew imo, but certainly well worth the $17.99. If anything it just makes me more excited for whenever Tadami Line arrives.
Lets be honest. This completely blows TSW out of the water. Much better looking AND much better performance AND less bugs despite being a one guy EA game. Absolutely recommended for the price of less then a TSW DLC. Can't see the appeal of Tadami Line if you can get Running Train for less.
That goes for nearly all TSW routes (not just Rivet). You can look through the .pak files and see the low number of unique buildings for each DLC. Who cares how they're created? All video game graphics is trickery. Do you actually have any figures for how many unique assets Running Train has, or is this speculation? What matters is not how the physics is actually calculated, but how accurate the results are. And unless you have evidence that the results for Running Train are inaccurate...
Sorry but this feels a bit like coping to be honest. The physics feel on par with TSW and we don't need another paid (and mostly low quality sadly) DLC distribution Machine like TSW anyway. You can't deny this guy is extremely skilled and the sim/game extremely polished. One guy just delivered better lightings, better sounds, much better performance and overall better graphics than anything we currently have in TSW. And by the way its extremely fun to play and learn the route to play without HUD. But okay one guy sells a more polished and better looking & performing product with less bugs for less $ but he has not as many unique assets. Shocking.
Slightly bad news from my end in that playing the game just triggered a power spike/thermal shutdown of my PC. Could just be the hot weather not helping, but I was playing TSW the last couple of days and not had anything like that. In addition I have also encountered the blurred cab gauges which effectively means if at some point I wanted to run without the HUD, I can't. So sadly I feel this is going to have to wait until I have better hardware - not taking away from the developer in the slightest, just tells me I need a new PC!
[QUOTE=Who cares how they're created? All video game graphics is trickery. That's true too. Good point.
I mean mainly cause what we've got already is basically the whole game- there's no passengers, no freight, no free roam, you can't get out of the train, etc. That's a big one for me- "playing as the train" rather than playing a guy driving a train is a step back imo. The scoring system is fun, but i'm not the person who's gonna obsessively go for perfect runs on every service, especially since they're all so similar. It's pretty and fun, but certainly limited in scope. I hope this sells well enough for him to create something bigger eventually (if that's something he wants to do).
Some incredibly hot takes from Maik Goltz her, beginning by intentionally misquoting the person he's replying to. Great start... I sense a lot of bitterness, coming from someone who has a vested interest in Running Train not being a success. He does seem to be very invested in talking down somebody's personal passion project, one that just so happens to outclass TSW (and TS) in quite a few ways already. As for performance, I'm on a Ryzen 7 7800X3D with a 5070. I'm running the game in 1080p with quality DLSS (which I probably don't need) and it runs fine. At 4K, I don't know how it would perform on my PC. It does run much better than TSW, and looks unbelievably better too. It's not far off of AAA-tier games in some aspects, and either way is by far the best looking train simulator ever developed. Distant scenery is an issue, but not a major one. When the camera is in or around the train - most of the time - the scenery looks great. That said, I wish it had ray tracing and HDR support. It looks good with Auto HDR turned on in Windows but it isn't an ideal solution. I am aware a lot of the assets are from the marketplace. But to be clear, TSW routes also use assets from the FAB store. I don't think either count as asset flips though, since they both have custom assets and clearly have real effort put into them. It won't replace Train Simulator for me for obvious reasons, but it's a brilliant first start no matter what.
Why are you claiming it's "the whole game" when route extensions, DLC, passengers and freight are all in the roadmap? As for free roam, we need to remember it's a train simulator and not a walking / job simulator. TSW is the only train simulator I'm aware of that involves walking. JB
I can even play it at 60 FPS but with the heat wave I do my system a favor and play 30 FPS (QHD, everything on ULTRA). 30 FPS still feel smooth. I also dont understand why Maik has to critizise the "lack of trees". I mean its a urban Japanese route. Look at some real Japanese Urban routes. Many building look kind of similar so I would Say thats realistic. Overhead wire, signalig, Station detail, night detail, snow detail...that all runs circles around even the best TSW routes and mops the floor with the standard TSW routes. Also for "no passengers". Honestly I would like the option to turn them off in TSW since they are just horrible behaving and looking. Looks passengers are coming to Running Train and I am 100% convinced they will look and work better than in TSW. New Lines and extentions are also coming! (2026, Q3-Q4) Implementing the passenger system and a Passenger POV mode. (2026, Q4) Localization. (2027, Q2-Q4) Sankai Main Line: Extension to Hayase (bringing the final route to approx. 80km). (2027, Q2-Q3) Fukugawa Main Line: Extension to Tenryuko (bringing the final route to approx. 20km). (2027, Q2-Q3) Conductor Mode.
I would like to see the game expand over time. I'm sure it will though. It's clearly a demo at this point. A very good one, but a demo nevertheless. The peak player count is ~850, which probably equates to a decent amount of cash, and the reviews on Steam are very good too. There's clearly interest in this game - I assume a decent chunk of that is a protest vote against DTG (justifiably) - but I think with further development it'll do its own thing very well. Probably not a replacement for TS, but still a nice train sim to play.
Hot take from you sir, but exactly what i expected to see at some point. Let me tell you the truth: i don't care at all if RT is a success or not. Only thing i was interested in (and not only with this game but also many others too since i am generally interested how something is made) was how it is being done. I got all my questions answered and have come to a conclusion for me. Obviously no one is really interested in the truth of what that game is and can be in the future. Fine, no problem, i will not tell anything more from now. You guys really don't deserve it. Research yourself. And this has nothing to do with TSW and that i might have any fears about possible competitors. Nope, not a tiny bit. I really don't care at all. TSW is my "home" for many years and that will not change, for other reasons.
The truth is that its the currently best looking train sim/game, much better looking than TSW, that runs smooth for most people and has no annoying stuttering like TSW has. And it's fun and is half the price of an Expert TSW DLC (single loco).
I mean, yeah..? That's kind of what a good dev does. This is called optimization. TSW route builders placing thousands of individual tree objects on distant mountains to create forests must be one of the biggest waste of system resources I have ever seen.
I completely agree. Moreover, I'm a fan of modular model railways (i.e., those that specifically focus on the railway). So much so that the construction of all those useless houses and roads in the distance, is already overkill even in Running Train, again to my taste.
Well, we'll see if those goals are reached or not. Roadmaps are not a guarantee (as we've all learned many times from DTG). I did say IMO- personally, I feel like the first-person perspective ads a ton to immersion. It's hard for me to go back to the more disembodied perspective.
While being able to walk around in TSW is nice, 95% of the time is spent sitting in the driver's seat anyway.
fully agree, If you want to see outside the cab in TSW use the 8 camera. Colletables are meh. Most of the time you can't walk anywhere meaningful, and if you do you get stuck or fall through the map.
All the talk about how Running Train is supposedly “inferior” because of its technical approach doesn’t matter to me in the slightest. As a player, I look at what’s on the screen and what I hear - and RT already looks fantastic, sounds great, and is actually fun. Graphically and audio‑wise, it’s the game I always wished TSW would be. Whether the trees have scientifically accurate crowns or whether the world is built from modular pieces… honestly, who cares. The overall vibe is what counts, and RT nails it far better than TSW. For me, when playing a game, "feeling matters". TSW mostly gives me disappointment these days (which is why I stopped giving them my money). RT, on the other hand, feels like a breath of fresh air. Someone said: "I am aware a lot of the assets [in RT] are from the marketplace." Still better than the 25 year old ugly house assets in TSW which are still used over and over again.
I'm not too bothered by being able to walk around, but the camera controls are a bit funky in the release version. Plus, the first person camera is quite weird, but I don't know how to describe what's wrong with it.
I'm glad Maik had the patience and time to clearly and eloquently explain all the stuff I did not, and from a position of hard experience working with TSW and understanding Unreal more professionally. I am sure this will be enjoyable to some people, but it does come across like a few people here aren't quite aware of the category errors being made in the comparisons. A classic emergent property of hype, I guess.
Well, yes, those were basically the two headline features of UE5, right? Fancier graphics features, and mitigations for the UE4 stutter. To my eye, of course, as someone who plays a lot of games in the engine, I really don't see the fuss. It looks like every other UE game to me.
I've been eyeing this and it certainly looks gorgeous, the sounds from what I can experience on Youtube are also great, etc. I'll probably pick it up, but I have to admit I'm leery due to multiple things Disintegration detailed in the quote above. It's early access, I get that, but if all we're doing is driving a prettier train through a prettier environment, without TSW-style timetables or other varied experiences, I'm not sure it's the "great leap forward" some folks are claiming. The biggest problem with train and flight sims is that they often don't give you enough to do beyond point A to B runs, and, at least in my opinion, this looks like it continues to have that problem. If I'm wrong about that, please let me know, or if the roadmap goes into all the awesome stuff that's planned that will bring more than graphics to the table, shoot me a link to it, because I'd be very, very interested. And if all the devs intended was pretty trains through pretty environments, then on the surface it looks like he did a damn fine job, I'm just less enthusiastic about that setup than some other folks here.
Sorry, but i'm not into memes at all. I actually hate them like hell. So please tell me what you want to say with it. Better use text than random GIFs. Thanks.
I picked it up and played it, TSW it is not nor do I think it is meant to be a direct competitor. Only comparisons I made was in visuals and performance and not its features, performance wise it runs exceptionally well as compared to TSW, I had its settings maxed out and even with an ageing RTX3080 it was a joy to play compared to TSW. However it won't be a replacement for TSW just another avenue of fun, you know what they say... Variety is the spice of life! I look forward to further development from this talented dev and his title.
Do we know how long this took to make to say if it's "faster" or not? These passion projects tend to be very time intensive on the part of the developer, far more than someone working for pay would put in. Assuming a studio would be "faster" or "better" may not necessarily be true. That's especially true when using multiple teams and devs who then have to coordinate constantly, compared to a single person who is taking their time and did every bit of it by hand and knows how it all connects together...and isn't even tied to a specific code and UI since he made his own. At best, if you threw ten people at it full time you MIGHT get something with as many hours into it, but it would still have to "fit" into TSW and there'd be a ton of coordination required. That's why I suggest looking at this as a sort of one-off solo project and not "something TSW could do faster." It's like comparing a simple shoemaker who hand crafts them by hand custom made one at a time to a huge corporate shoe store. Yes, "Nike" can make more shoes faster but asking them to make custom hand made shoes in small batches is the opposite of what they're organized to do.
Yeah, I'm sure DTG would be turning out way more new routes every year if they could just make their employees work on their own time at home seven days a week.
The developer himself started experimenting in Unreal Engine 4 about 6 years ago I believe. Then there are traces of the current project from about 4 or 5 years ago. So 6 years max from scratch, a single person made all of the program logic, 3D assets, route building, timetables, controller support, etc. And he had no game developer or any serious programming experience beforehand, mostly only modelling skills. I believe he also had his real work alongside it. So now imagine if he was not alone but even just a couple of developers working together. With a good team you could achieve similar results while still keeping healthy working hours. Of course, for this, you need people who actually care and are competent. I don't think anyone believes it is a serious TSW killer in a sense that it can replace TSW functionally and content wise. But it shows what CAN BE done on a technical level (graphics, performance). And then you look at the state of TSW through the years and ask yourself, "what the hell are they doing? is it really worth paying for this?".
The coping is reaching levels... "I can't run around collecting garbage to earn points" and "Distant trees look much worse in TSW but they are at least real 3D objects" and "DTG could do the same if they care and work 7 days a week" Seriously? This game was never meant to be to be a copy of TSW. It's a truely Japanese train simulator. And thats fine. The areas where you can compare it beats TSW easily (visuals, performance, being bug free). There are more than enough UE5 simulators with bad visuals and performance. For Example SubwaySim. And I would bet money a DTG UE5 Train SImulator would also face these issues. Its not that simple and there is a high level of skill needed to make a sim in UE5 thats not only good looking but also has great performance.
Eh, I wouldn't say bug free yet. Obviously there are some, after all, it's a new software. But the developer is really quick at trying to address them. For example I reported a visual issue where static trains in the yards were sometimes missing their doors and it got fixed by the next day. Also "this service ends in an infinite red light" problems in the timetable are also fixed by the next day. Obviously it's a bad comparison to TSW, as it's easier to do such quick fix as a solo developer. We will see in the long run how the software holds up regarding bugs, once more systems (like passengers, announcements, freight, etc) are added.
At least I can drive through a tunnel without light shining through the mountains. And I not have a constant white haze in the distance And there are no cars driving through level crossings And he got the time of day right (No the sun is not up and shining bright as day in early March at 05:00am) I mean especially such bugs that completely destroy the immersion.
Hope the dev adds some type of Japanese freight in the future (IIRC someone mentioned in the other thread they have a model on hand) so that would peak my interest if that gets added in the future. Was originally against the idea of a fictional route, but it does give the dev more play room in making something that works without having to spend time trying to get local landmarks down pat. Maybe when the dev gets the base game fully released, then they can can experiment with an unbranded Japanese route? Either way it'll be interesting to see where this goes in the future.
Yes, there was a static EF58 in one of the demos. There might have been another one as well, but I'm not sure. If I remember correctly, he may have mentioned wanting to do a real route next time once this project is done. But can't find it on Discord anymore, so can't confirm it.
I have to say, I suspect anyone who didn't know about Running Train would just assume this was a photograph because it's getting close to impossible to tell the difference. JB
Those might be default Unreal Engine assets? But for example the American flag semi truck is definitely a bought asset. I was editing the textures for it once for my Sherman Hill mod and the UV is completely different for it than anything DTG made. You can see it was not made by the same people.
It's really not, though. In that screenshot alone it's very obviously rendered in UE. The models, the textures, the lighting... It practically jumps out of the screen and punches you in the face. You can straight up see all the simplified assets.
I think a lot of this comes down to what people define by "realism". For some people, it's a mechanical simulation level thing. A seafaring game that realistically models fluid dynamics will be more "realistic" to one person, even as it has cel shaded cartoon graphics, whereas to another player, an on-rails VR experience entirely built from live action video footage with minimal interactivity is more "realistic". Graphics and performance are both attainable, but in an off the shelf engine like UE that often requires a lot of sacrifices in other aspects. Hell, even in custom built proprietary internal engines we see that, look at the massive scaling back of physics simulation levels in Rockstar's RAGE between GTAIV and GTAV in order to massively up the graphical quality in the latter and retain the same level of performance. Yes, DTG could 100% improve the performance in TSW in a few fairly easy ways. But you'd end up getting something closer to Wonders of Sodor in the process.
