West Coast Main Line: Trent Valley From All Aboard Studios

I was watching Richy Rail's video on YouTube with AAS and now just realised that i need to buy the 805, a train that i dont want, just so i can do the full Euston to Crewe run with the 807 when Trent valley comes out. Is this correct?

 

unfortunately yes, the 807 will only be layering onto the evero timetables

 

The problem with modern trains, at least UK ones, is they are not very entertaining. Traction sounds are subdued or non existent in the case of IET’s as the real thing has unpowered end cars. Modern commuter EMU’s lack that full blooded AC or DC rise and fall electrical whine, though with the caveat of course that some of the types we fondly remember like the Class 310’s or CIG’s and VEP’s technically had the motor car in the middle of the set and the driving ends were actually trailers. The exception perhaps is modern diesel locos, while the Class 66 is overcooked in TSW the forthcoming Class 70 from AABS promises to be hellfire and I join with the many who want to see and hear a Class 68 in game,

 

I can agree with you on the part the modern UK EMU's are not very entertaining. The sounds of the Siemens ones are just annoying, then we have the annoying small cab windows like on the Class 450 and a lot of routes just have the same trains (3 types of class 450 doesn't help). But there are still a lot of trains missing, I really would love to see the class 195 and class 331 and the class 745 for example.

There are still some nice EMU's in game, like the class 323, class 166 and class 465, however those are not really new.

 

Wait what? You get a train with the route, but you can't use it to the full potential (or not at all?) unless you buy another DLC? Well, I'm offboard All Aboard Studios

 

Before you go and spend $60 odd on a brand new piece of train sim world DLC, remember that Dovetail still think the Class 90 is worth $26 and it is still for sale, at full price, on all the various store fronts. Does Dovetail really deserve a cut from more DLC sales?

 

I would have expected them to natively include the existing Evero WCML timetables with this DLC, so that those who don't have the 805 can still use the 807 on other WCML routes. Has there been any confirmation that it won't be the case?

 

Yes, this DLC is made by All Aboard, but what else does it take to "be enough" - DTG makes money from every sale, and like many people in this world it seems the only way that they will learn is by suffering a financial cost. and if third parties are also suffering then all the more pressure on DTG to actually do something different

 

Knowing what we know about how about layers and dlc work why does the 807 only being used on AABS content surprise people?

 

Yes. This is exactly what you can expect. That the 807 only layers on Birmingham Crewe and the 805 timetable for EMK. Hardly surprising.

 

I just go to timetable mode on foot at Crewe or Stafford or wherever, then spawn an 86+coaches wherever it'll let me, then set a path to wherever I want to go and it all seems to work happily enough with whatever's running in the normal timetable.

 

It is unfortunate, i am excited for and looking forwards to the Preston to Crewe from Just Trains, which is odd as i am not usually the biggest fan of the BR era. but as much as people talk about 'voting with your wallet' and as much as i agree with the sentiments, DTG make money on every sale from every thing, and as long as theyre making money there is no incentive to actually change.

A bunch of customers not buying one DLC means diddly squat if we continue to buy anything and DTG keeps making money. DTG win no matter how you look at it, which is why not buying other developers content might make those dev's put pressure on DTG also

 

Watched a bit more of the stream skipping forward to the 807 from MKC to Rugby. Not sure why Matt was faffing about so much with the cruise control. Seemed more trouble than it was worth particularly on the Weedon stretch where the limits are constantly changing. Best just to actually drive the train...

On the subject of which, as feared from the cab view the 807 is as deathly quiet as all the rest of the 8xx fleet. Zero fun to drive really, just into Notch 4 then power back approaching line speed. So while the locations and scenery might be slightly different, other than the stopping services not much different to what we can already experience on ECML. I suppose we have got the slightly more tactile Pendolino, though it's still no real challenge as regards driving.

So once again wavering about a full price week one purchase. If only this route had been a continuation of the JT 80's paradigm, but as it is we don't even get an 86 or 87 railtour this time round.

 

Yes, but as I said, no timetable to keep, so it's not any fun.

 

And no AP in free roam either.

 

That would be a problem with how TSW is set up in general, a timetable is in one .pak file with the 805, so they would have to include the timetable in TVL .pak as well, which as a result will duplicate the timetable and you will have two of each if you own both DLCs.

Obviously making stuff like that separate from the route or train would be welcome change and would simplify some things, also if trains were shipped separately from routes it would also improve a lot of things (Especially if this way we could have one file for each unique train and the improvements made to those with newer content would apply for all the same rolling stock, this way we wouldn't have such a large amount of class 66's in the menu, only the unique ones would be there, so no duplicates: EWS, EWS dirty, DB, DB large logo, DRS, ONE. Much cleaner isn't it?), but it's kinda too late for that.

 

Ah... misunderstood you - I read it as "no timetable" (as in, no other services running and a "dead" route) - ignore me, just having a senior moment

 

Yes please, especially for the 195.. doing this WCMLOS 2026TT its a little frustrating constantly having to use the 158 as its sub!

 

At 2.02.12 in the video.. .looks like they didn't implement approach control for this junction approaching Rugby? Was 115 to 40mph with only double yellow to single yellow with feather? Surely should be more restrictive?

 

I would love to see the Nothern class 195 in a new scenic route, together with the Nothern class 158. Something like Glossop line, with nice views on the hills and countryside.

 

From the stream, it would have been nice if some liberties had been taken with the Network Rail linear forest in order for us to see the M1 and Blue Boar Service Station where they run adjacent through Watford Gap. The NB Service Area used to be a good location for train watching, during the “courtesy stops” long distance coaches (RELH, yay!) used to make en route from London to the North.

 

So you’re saying that slam doors weren’t real world and people are making them up?
Train sim modern routes get out of date very quickly, just look at Winter 2019 timetable mod for WCMLS - out of date already.
Personally I’d rather drive some totally different old slam door stock than yet another 350. I used to commute on them for many years and I’m not ageist like some.
Our heritage is just as important as driving today’s trains, we should not airbrush it from history just because it’s not “cool”.

 

I’d read what he said again and not skip any of the words if I were you.

 

Setting aside any semantics I do firmly believe DTG and the 3P’s should be doing more to bring a cross section of different eras to TSW. Credit to JT for their endeavours in this area, but DTG and the rest should be giving it more attention too.

 

The obvious solution here would have been to set the route around 2005 when there were still loco hauled sets, 321s, HSTs AND Voyager, Pendolino etc. Best of both worlds. But then of course you wouldn’t have the 805/807 which I don’t really think anyone is that fussed by!

 

I don't think era popularity comes into it, it's more a choice made for convenience by DTG. The last DTG-produced route that wasn't set in the past ten years was Northern Trans-Pennine, released eight and a half years ago [Correction: actually it was Spirit of Steam in 2022, I thought it was older than that.]

I don't recall them ever asking customers what they'd like in the game other than the recent question about remasters in the survey, so of course if you only sell modern-era routes then it's easy to say 100% of your paying customers want modern-era. It's a good job we have JT taking care of the 80s for us. I'd like to see some 90s and early 2000s routes appear but as far as I'm aware the only reason we ever got a 90s route was because of a licensing issue that forced Rivet to backdate it.

JB

 

I don't care what era it is, the main thing is an interesting route and trains.

We have the southern half of the WCML with a modern timetable, and the northern half with an old timetable.

the ideal would be to combine the WCML routes (London - Crew and Crew - Glasgow) and create separate timetables for them.

 

So this was posted on their Facebook page a few hours ago. My interpretation of it is that none of the Crewe services will be driveable. Or am I just misreading it because the chart suggests the "stops" aren't playable since the green icons are labelled as "playable"? Am I missing something or is this just another case of poor communication?

 

It took me a second to figure out what they’re communicating, so I think your Chester Class 805 services, Manchester and Liverpool Class 390 services and the Blackpool and Liverpool 807 services are drivable from end to end. Everything else is either only partially drivable or AI only. Do many Avanti services make their way around the Stoke loop?

 

Yes that's what I initially assumed would be the case, until I saw this chart which explicitly indicates that the driveable parts are shown in green (and therefore by deduction not green = not driveable).

If they're driveable from end to end surely you'd have the whole service in green and something to indicate "pass" and "stop"? I suspect I won't be the only one interpreting this way so it would be good of them to clarify.

 

The black background with white dot indicates where the service stops, if there is a green with the arrow, that means the service is playable, it's not as clear because Crewe and Stafford are next to each other in the order of stations, but I assume that if a service is stopping at Crewe and then has a green line after Stafford, then it is driveable from Crewe.

 

Yes I can read the legend, thanks. The problem is they've defined a colour for "playable" and then not used it properly in the chart.

 

It is a tad confusing... Think they should have used green dots to clarify where a player service calls, rather than white for everything.

 

So can you understand it or not?
You say you don’t understand it; Fair enough it’s very poorly designed. Someone explains it and then you respond a tad bit sarcastically.

 

You're just misreading it it.... Chester services are drivable from end to end starting at Crewe then stopping at Stafford then non-stop to MK.

Next one same again but with an additional stop at Nuneaton.

Next one Drivable non stop from Nuneaton to MK AI only from RTV to Atherton.


Etc, etc.....

 

So what is the stopping patterns for the 350s.

 

The chart clearly says it's only for the AWC services nothing more.




The actual post it was put out with on FB was as follows but that wasn't added by the person who posted it on here.....



TRENT VALLEY LINE – AVANTI WEST COAST STOPPING PATTERNS
Today we're taking a closer look at the planned Avanti West Coast service patterns featured on the Trent Valley Line.
This diagram focuses exclusively on Avanti West Coast operations, showcasing how Class 390 Pendolino, Class 807 & Class 805 services interact across the route, from fast intercity expresses to services making calls at key Trent Valley stations.
The chart highlights:
Driveable Avanti West Coast services
Scheduled station stops
AI-operated services
Sections not served by that particular service pattern
With a mix of express workings, stopping services and occasional diagrams, Avanti West Coast brings plenty of operational variety to the Trent Valley Line timetable.
This is just one part of the wider route experience, with additional operators and traffic details to be revealed in future updates.
Which Avanti service will be your first run when the route arrives?

 

Yea i know that I was just asking in general sorry.

 

Yes, I think it would be clearer if they had put a green background for the dot representing stop as well.
For anybody wondering the "fake" stops are:

• Milton Keynes on the 805 to Chester
• Milton Keynes on the Manchester via Crewe service
• Milton Keynes on the Manchester via Stoke (calling at Nuneaton)
• Milton Keynes and Crewe on the 390 to Liverpool (calling at Tamworth and Lichfield)

The 350s stop at every station except Polesworth and Wolverton every hour. Polesworth is served once a day northbound only and Wolverton is served by 350s that go via Northamton.
EDIT: I forgot the Birmingham to Liverpool services that are every 30 minutes between Stafford and Crewe

 

I imagine they will be given in a similar chart for LNW services etc.....

 

I'm not misreading it though, am I? The legend indicates the driveable parts are in green. If the Chester services are driveable end to end then why on earth are Crewe and Stafford not in green? It's only readable if you make an assumption that black = green.

 

Avanti West Coast operate 2 hourly services between London and Liverpool, and 2 hourly services in the opposite direction, 1 with the 390 stopping at Tamworth and Lichfield Trent Valley, and 1 with the 807 stopping at Crewe and Milton Keynes Central.

 

The other question is whether they are all 4 cars or a mixture of 4 & 8 car formations. There also different routing options I believe, some run slow line all the way and others I believe run fast line between stations to overtake slower freights.

Another point is that if 8 cars how will the SDO be replicated for Rugeley on the Down?

 

I have a feeling that the Trent Valley services run on the slow lines from Nuneaton to Colwich and then the fast lines Stafford to Crewe. It's some of the Birmingham to Liverpool services that run on the slow lines between Stafford and Crewe. In fact, I just checked a small sample on OpenTrainTimes: the Trent Valley service and one of the Birmingham - Liverpool services run on the fast and and the other Birmingham to Liverpool runs on the slow on the Stafford to Crewe section.
If I remember correctly, they said that SDO had been implemented on the preview, but there were some caveats like you had to stop in the correct position.

 

Having just looked at the map it seems the only opportunity a LNWR service would get to go on the fast is between Rugeley TV and Lichfield. So I think we can accept that the LNWR services will be Slow Line only unless a different calling pattern is used on a service for whatever reason (scenario maybe?)

 

it's pretty simple. Green means playable drivable route, dot means stop. Red means AI only and white means not on route. to make the dot squares green would only make it harder to read. with 4 different colours, it's clear what is what.

 

Well I’ve read it along with others and understood it as it was intended so yes AFAIC you’re misreading it.

 

Noticed another incorrectly signalled junction in a stream this time approaching stafford from the north....110 to 40 with just double yellow to single yellow with feather. Surely should be release from red. Shame, as I think b2c was signalled mostly perfectly. As we can see from other releases, sorting out signalling afterwards is a nightmare and most likely won't be done.
May actually pass on this one, which i never thought I'd be saying, but I like running hudless and this cant really be done realistically with signalling that doesn't slow you down enough.

 

So according to Alex, there is a preview stream on Thursday at 19:00UTC

https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/week-beginning-8th-june-2026.98246/#post-1123462

 

Wrong route there chap.