We As A Community Need To Buck Up Our Ideas, Improve Ourselves & Do Better...

Bit of a random thread, but I feel it was necessary given the deterioration of etiquette towards Devs and DTG Staff on this forum.

Before I go off on this tangent, I don't want to come across like a wannabe 'forum sheriff', or some type of bootlicker. But I think it is important that we as a community take responsibility for some of the things I'm about to go on a rant about... I am more then aware I will get some who won't like what I've got to say and I'm willing to take that on the chin.

But over the last year or so, I really have noticed the deterioration of diplomacy and constructive feedback from the certain areas of the community towards DTG Staff & Dev. I personally feel that some of the behaviour I have seen is getting more and more out of hand and it is always a certain vocal minority who are always the loudest, most disrespectful, and are the ones putting out disinformation or are completely unhelpful and generate completely unfounded speculation, and are not offering any form of constructive feedback that benefits the TSW or the forums.

First and foremost, I want to say I think there is definitely a place for constructive feedback, even if it is strong (where it is warranted) and I'm not for a second suggesting to mute critical feedback in anyway so long as it has a purpose and helps the general direction of the game/DLC. Sometimes the strongest feedback can be helpful, just as the moderate feedback can be (As can feedback that comes from frustration and is warranted). But somewhere along the lines it appears that general unnecessary borderline abuse, nastiness, and unfounded speculation has been getting more and more common... This isn't feedback, this is just general nastiness, spiteful behaviour and general abuse type comments a lot of the time.

Before GWE Remaster was released, some of this had started to begin on that thread with some nasty unfounded and generally quite spiteful comments that added nothing to the conversation. Another example is the AAS TVL threads that turned particularly nasty and unnecessarily spiteful towards the Devs... Some of the unfounded speculation was just looking to create a nasty atmosphere where it wasn't necessary. There were even people who hadn't even owned any AAS content and were generating unfounded speculation, spitefulness and just being generally insulting! These are just two small examples of the recent ones I've noticed.

Then I have witnessed some real nastiness towards DTG Staff & Devs on a personal level... What is that about and is it necessary? I remember a time when DTG staff would frequent these forums and interact with us, as did a lot of Devs, but some familiar faces will just contribute nothing but complete and utter nastiness at times. I'm not saying that DTG Staff & Devs aren't adult to manage some of these situations, or are immune to criticism, but we wonder why they don't frequent the forums as regularly as they did previously with the increased hostility towards anyone in an official capacity in this game?

I think we as a community need to do better and take accountability and reflect on some of these things. I've seen some real nasty personal attacks on staffs personalities, I've seen generally nasty and unwarranted personal comments that serve no purpose other then to take digs at people personally... We often hold DTG to account for their contributions to the game, but what about holding ourselves accountable for the behaviour we bring to the forum?

This forum should be a place for lively debates, differences of opinion, and feedback even if it is strong at times... But it has started to go beyond that and has turned noticeably malicious and nasty.

I think it is time as a community we try and improve ourselves. I personally think it is the vocal minority, as it always is, who are causing these issues. But it is also often the vocal minority who are always the loudest.

I'm aware the game has had some major bugs and issues that need ironing out and at times can be highly frustrating for players, and I'm not saying for a second that we need to mute our reactions to such things. But we certainly need to make sure anything we do contribute is constructive criticism and feedback... Not personal attacks or spiteful unfounded remarks.

I would like to see a return to a forum where Devs participate in the discussions, but I do not blame them for taking a back seat with the current hostilities they face. I generally enjoyed the interactions I've had with Devs and most of the time it has been helpful and insightful. But the hostile vocal minority make it a nightmare at times and it is enough to put anyone off.

I am not looking to stir up a reaction, but I think we could all do better and think before we post sometimes. Criticism should be generally constructive but never unnecessarily spiteful, personal or unhelpful.

I think we should all look at doing our bit. I want staff and Devs to interact more on the forum but I can see why they've taken a back seat... It would be enough to put a lot of people off.

I also think if this type of hostility and spitefulness by some continues it will in actual fact stunt areas of the game development and be counter productive. And I for one would hate to see that happen.

Anyway I know I will get some flack for this, and I'm willing to take that on the chin... But I think it's time that some people try doing better when interacting on these forums. If you haven't got anything nice to say... Don't say it at all (if it is abusive and offers nothing to bettering the game).

I would just like to see etiquette and diplomacy return from our side as a community.

 

I write in support of the above. I think personal manners, respect and courtesy seems to be something sadly deteriorating in every aspect of life.
This is not helped by social media and the fact that engagement generates engagement, particularly when it’s hostile, and this makes some other people very rich as they can sell more adverts.

Understanding this forum is frequented from people from all walks of life, ages and outlooks I do agree, in an increasingly hostile and fragmented world where click bait and outrage rules the algorithms, we could all just be a bit kinder and understand the world is not perfect and things can’t be fixed in 5 minutes.

People are often doing their best and also dealing with their own family or personal matters. Life is hard and no one should make it harder for others. Everyone carries an often invisible burden to some extent.

DTG staff do a great job and without them we would not have this sim.

“A rising tide lifts all boats” as some wise person said.

 

Completely agree with this thread. For me this is in no small part due to the relaxed level of moderation of these forums. Only the very worst offences (such as the aforementioned personal insults to DTG staff) led to moderation. I would like to see a tighter ship where threads were kept more on topic and unfounded rage bait criticism is discouraged. It would be nice if we could all come together and improve the forums but at the end of the day it will require someone with a pointy stick or ban hammer to actually make a difference.

 

I agree there needs to be respect, but the counterpoint is DTG are selling often flawed product (and core) at a not inconsiderable price. Issues get reported, issues get ignored and we now have a history of content and tech debt going back several years. Then the only time we see anyone from DTG is on the carefully managed streams where key questions are often ignored.

If you’re running a business that sells slightly imperfect goods, then you shouldn’t be afraid to show your face on the forums when people get a bit frustrated and agitated. It also seems to be DTG’s choice to ignore the forum in favour of Discord (which by all accounts is far worse than here) which only adds to the annoyance. For a company that has, what, 5 or 6 community managers before we get to product and department managers/producers, they’re not very good at PR…

 

These are fair points, and I don't think anyone would be against voicing these concerns if anyone has them as long as that is done through the right channels and doesn't personally abuse people.

What I'm against is the amount of personal abuse and maliciousness contained in a lot of messages on this forum over the last year. These range from publicly attacking someones personality and making personal comments about them for the way they appeared on a live stream. The way certain people are going out of their way to be just purely malicious and spiteful on the AAS TVL (even though some of them didn't even own any of their content!). People making completely unfounded malicious comments and spreading unsubstantiated claims on threads and spreading misinformation just to stir up a reaction and discredit Devs undeservedly. That's just the tip of the iceberg...

As I've mentioned, I don't have to agree with whats being said, everyone has a right to voice their concerns and vent criticism so long as it is constructive. Where I draw a line is with the above, when it gets personal, and when it is completely unfounded, and it has gotten worse and worse over the last 12 months from my own observations.

There becomes a point of when we need to take responsibility as a community for our actions. DTGs moderation has a role to play to some extent, but people are old enough and in most cases consious enough and aware of what they are doing without needing their hands held.

 

Yes, I have to say that I have great sympathy for anyone who purchased that product in good faith. The response (or lack therof) from DTG has been shocking. Unfortunately though, when tempers boil over it makes valid criticism less meaningful. I feel like so many threads could do with a quick ‘clean out’ of off topic or over the line posts which would keep genuine, measured concerns and criticisms in the limelight rather than wandering into bickering between angry users who ultimately probably want the same thing!

 

unfortunately current evidence would suggest otherwise

 

So yesterday I watched some bodycam footage of a transit cop that "pulled over" a broken down car, the driver of which was a federal officer (not an agent, some technicality). The cop was very belligerent and argumentative, not believing that the guy was a fed despite the guy flashing him credentials, that should have been it really but the fed was just as standoffish and argumentative to the point he was detained for a good 20 minutes while the matter was ironed out. Sometimes a situation where you are frustrated and in the right, can escalate and when it does it no longer matters that you are right as you've escalated it to the point you are now in the wrong. It's like that on here quite a lot, folks are genuinely and understandably angry but it boils over from complaints about inferior products to personal attacks which then of course either kills the thread, or the argument.

The level of childishness on here does cause one to shake their heads, of course it's not as bad as some other places but of course anyone can join the 91st Chairborne Rangers and feel they can mouth off with impunity. As our forum accounts are not linked to our DTL accounts we rely on trust that when we are talking about our experience with a DLC, we are being genuine as there is no way to prove one way or the other that we actually own said DLC. This has been noted in particular with the Trent Valley and Brum-Crewe routes as pointed out by our good Sergeant from Sun Hill...

That said, the Devs and or their community team/PR team or whatever they are called need to step it up quite a bit. A lot of this is their fault for their inaction, threads pop up mentioning faults or other issues with newly released DLC and it's radio silence. Of course there are the feedback threads however they fall by the wayside within a few weeks. Look at the Class 90, I don't mean the shambolic state that it was released in but the threads on the topic, after some initial responses to comments/feedback it went quiet from the dev/DTG, to the point where ATS seemingly buggered off completely and let's not forget the infamous reply from a CM that the users are at fault for complaining. It's already a volatile situation and someone being paid to be a community manager goes and throws fuel on the fire, no wonder there was blowback! Don't forget that it then escalated further when several months after release we finally get a press release promising the world will be made whole again but also clearly showed that we were LIED to by ATS and DTG, that it wasn't a "wrong build sent out" as they had claimed, remember trust is earned and after that stunt both ATS and DTG lost credibility.

When you've got half the community considering legal avenues regarding taking devs and/or DTG to court it really shows how bad things have gotten. The question is, is there a way back from here? I'd say there is, the community need to behave better but DTG and 3rd party developers need to sort their guff out and fix longstanding issues, release their DLC and core games in the fit and proper state that is expected from their price tags and finally, communicate honestly and regularly with us, the community and the customers...

I'm still wrapping my head over that whole BS of speaking the British Language and translating DIRFT for non native speakers... FFS :/

 

I need a TL; DR, that's a lot of words before a coffee...

 

To be honest, I do not see that much of personal abuse. Yes it does happen sometimes, but most arguments are against DTG as company and 3rd party devs and their practices. As people get frustrated, which I can understand with the state of the game and how DLC's are released, you'll see more complaints and the tone can shift towards a little less polite.

In my opinion it's first up to DTG to solve the excising issues and improve the quality of the products and the way of testing. When people are more happy with the game, most likely you will also see a difference in how people behave on the forums. Nowadays there is to much frustration, something only DTG can solve. The lack of communication (Class 90 for example) and/or the way of communication only makes it worse.

So I totally disagree with the statement we as community need to do better or improves ourselves, DTG needs to do better and I guess also some individuals here on the forums. You're now kind of blaming everyone on the forums, but most of them are just behaving politely. Everyone is responsible for their own behavior and we as group are not responsible for the behavior of individuals.

 

Half the community?

We had one on here once who was going to report DTG to trading standards. They wriggled out of it when some started to encourage them.

 

i absolutely agree. by all means, if you think a dlc is rubbish, say it loud and clear. explain everything wrong with it and if it’s a complete waste of money, say that too. i don’t see a problem with that. where the line is drawn is personal attacks against staff and other forum users, at the end of the day we’re all here for the same reason

 

Certainly DTG don't help themselves sometimes and constructive criticism should be something we all contribute to, but it's possible to do it in a nonconfrontational way and without hyperbole.

However you would think that when a senior member of staff steps away from the forums, someone who was engaging and helpful, that would be a warning sign to the "community". It clearly wasn't.

There is still too much unpleasantness from a few individuals towards staff plus now an abundance of "facts" and "stats" banded about which are clearly fanciful and certainly not the result of any research or of any substance.

I'm on here a lot less and realise these forums aren't an essential part of the trainsim experience. Several members have disappeared recently.

You reap what you sow.

 

Half the community want Legal Action?
Half the community do not?
But which half is right?
There is only one way to find out...................

 

I'm sorry, but this is an example of what needs to stop in these forums. A community manager is paid to engage with the community. You are now trying to call out the community manager for engaging with the community. This is not in any way justification for getting frustrated. Calm down, be constructive and aware that nothing is perfect. If you treat people with respect (even DTG employees!) then they might just afford you the same courtesy.

 

Which could have easily been squashed with a quick bit of moderation

 

Completely agree

 

You genuinely are overreacting. Please go outside and touch some grass.

 

Yes this is exactly the problem.

Quite ironic really that it should be given as an example in this very thread.

 

The quality of the engagement matters to, sorry but talking about cobra's while real issues like poor moderation on this very forum is very questionable. No different from judging a clerk for chatting up a customer for 15 minutes while they've got stuff in the back they need to be doing. Community managers are supposed to manage the community, that can include chatting with them when relevant. But if isn't about the game then no, that's not a part of their job, and it does come across as extremely unprofessional.

 

God forbid they show a human side!

The thing is the example given on Candace just engaging and being friendly with someone doesn't really hold upto criticism for me. I would be willing to make a bet that she has no responsibility for development for the game and her showing her human side and being friendly and being interactive isn't in anyway with holding updates to the game or affecting anyone. It seems to me people just nit picking for the sake of it. As far as I'm aware she takes in feedback and posts it back to the relevant people and is doing that job just fine. Also the style moderation on this forum people should be appreciative for... I am on RailUK and a few other forums which back in the day were quite fun to be on, but they went in the opposite direction and become so overly moderated and robotic I am only a lurker on the website now with about 1 post a year!

For me this is one of the forms of hostility I am on about. Doomed if they do, doomed if they don't. People would moan and criticise the forum has no human touch and was robotic if DTG staff didn't show their human side every once and while and have light hearted interactions, but would also moan and criticise them for having a light hearted chat with someone about a snake of all things and criticise them for 'not doing their job'?

That isn't unprofessional in anyway shape or form. At work I've had light hearted conversations with the public, in a professional but light hearted way that wasn't related to my job. Does that make me unprofessional and lazy? No, it doesn't. I get my job done but also have the courtesy to be polite with people who make conversation with me.

The implication that her (or any staff of dev or that matter) are just sitting around not doing their job is also slightly insulting. I've seen many threads locked, I've seen many instances where moderation has stepped in where necessary. They've done their jobs fairly efficiently and and fairly.

But is it any wonder that CMs or people even higher have taken a back seat on this forum and only post where necessary? Some of the overly harsh comments, overly harsh criticism, and sometimes damn right insulting comments (by the way which aren't constructive or helpful in anyway) are enough to put anyone off as they can't do right whatever they do.

As I've already mentioned, I'm not advocating for DTG and the game not to receive any criticism at all as that would be unhealthy, stifling valid criticism, and over the top. What I am advocating for is for people to stop being so unnecessarily rude and to think before they post... The last 12 months has got particularly worse and worse. The community managers can only do so much to stunt this behaviour, but forum members also have a role to play in taking responsibility for what they post, having etiquette towards others and voicing criticism in a non personal way, or making malicious comments that don't help anyone and are just outright nasty.

I'll concede, that some of this behaviour may have something to do with the state of the game. But half the people who share that frustration still manage to conduct themselves like adults without the need to personally attack or insult DTG staff or Devs.

You only have to look at the AAS TVL thread a few days before release, and how many insulting, unsubstantiated speculations, and derogatory posts there were as a most recent example of people acting like bratty children.

 

A lot of victim blaming here. Hint: When thinking goes from "I'm unhappy with DTG's actions" to "My abusive behavior toward DTG staff is their fault", that's when it's time to hit the brakes.

 

Well this thread has proven its point.

 

I don't think I stated anything on game development side of things was there fault. I made a point to even state-

My issue is on something they can reasonably be expected to do, moderation of the forum, which people have pointed out for months has felt substandard.

All I can say is that I really don't have any desire for small talk with staff, they should be focused on community management, and delivering info on the game. Frankly I take a lot of issue with companies that try and create overly parasocial relationships with their fans.

And in my opinion those people are just wrong if that's their main issue with the forum, it's supposed to be for community discussion and delivering of info to us. If that gets delivered upon in either a human or inhuman way it doesn't matter. Maybe that matters to you, but part of the issue with framing this as a "community" problem is that we aren't the same and can differ. Heck, I don't agree with the guy I was defending on a lot of issues, but I just saw him make a point I agreed with and stepped in.

To which I'll point out I already addressed this.

There's a reason I specified that, to try and counter the criticism you've made here. The issue is people have complained about the moderation issues on the forums for months, yet I've now heard multiple times now that they're hanging out on Discord instead doing trivial matters despite claiming they lack time?

I don't see what you're even disagreeing with here, I fundamentally agree that it's fine if it isn't impacting your job, my issue is that I think it is. Sorry if that sounds harsh, but it would be way worse in my mind to go around pretending that isn't what I'm thinking here.

It's the internet, DTG screwed up hard if they hired people expecting people not to be bad apples. No different than how customer service punishes workers who snap at people yelling abuse at them. Yes it sucks, but you're supposed to be better than to go to the same lows as them. The idea that any issues with the communication are justified by this I just can't agree with.

Also fundamentally if you consider posts like mine as abuse, then sorry but we have very different versions of that word. I really don't think we're all that different though, I feel like there's just misunderstandings going on.

 

Just for clarification, I don't consider your post to be abusive, no. Yes it takes the opposite stance to mine, but is no more, or no less valid to what I've got to say on the this issue. We just have strongly different opinions on this matter.

All I can say is we have massively different points of view. There's nothing more I can add to what I've already stated, as I imagine is the same with your own post. Our views are strong and opposing, but they are open for others to see and make there own minds up on should they be interested.

 

Respect is a very interesting word. We should all behave correctly, not only in forums but everywhere as a general rule. However many people forgets that respect goes in the two directions and also forgets that this is not a fan club, but a business. In business you build respect with your actions and with your products, because people pays and therefore expects to receive goods in accordance. This rule is very simple indeed but is the basis of everything else that comes afterwards, like healthy forums, popular events, etc.

Once you have your customers respect, and you maintain it over the years, you don´t need community managers nor even a very intense forum moderation. Customers join forums just to share their good experience with product and their passion, they purchase content, particitape in events and join any activity related to the product. However, if your product starts to degrade and you don´t react correctly or in time, then respect drops in accordance and it drops really fast. I can agree that in such situation we, as customers, can still decide to keep the good mood and so on, but this will only help to maintain the fan club alive, not the product. If you really want to improve the product you need to point to the mistakes, request error fixing and push DTG to solve them. And at some point you may need to take it seriously and simply stop supporting DTG. Sorry, but this is how any business works.

I joined forum on 2018 and I played all titles. Forum was much different in those years, but product too. Many of us have seen the long term evolution and have actively supported DTG purchasing content for years because the initial concept was really good and both DTG and users were on the same page. But we have also seen how DTG behaves and how much this has changed compared to the early days. This is not new. Things started to change many years ago indeed.

As of today, I will just say DTG is not going in the correct direction in my opinion, and indeed it deviates from the correct direction exponentially as time passes by. I don´t want anything bad happens to the company nor the staff, for sure, and I only wish they realize a change in their approach is really needed, so that we can all see a fresh restart, improved product quality and therefore some of that respect for customers, because we deserve it as well.

My current played hours according to Steam (you can imagine how DLC purchasing evolved in accordance):

• TSW2: 1394h
• TSW3: 20h
• TSW4: 367h
• TSW5: 5h
• TSW6: 2h

I didn´t post for a long time and I just pretend to be constructive, so please don´t get me wrong

Best wishes.

 

All this is happening because TSW is at the end of its cycle.
Don't regret what you purchased or the time spent with this program.
Look to the future with optimism.
Things will change sooner or later.

 

Sometimes a radical change is necessary to regain credibility.
But there may not be the strength and will to make it happen.
I'm waiting on the sidelines, waiting for something new...

 

It's not either/or. When it's about DTG's business practices harming the customer, we're the victim. When it's about members of the community being abusive to DTG staff, they're the victim. Claiming cause and effect, i.e. "you make me do this", is classic abuser manipulation.

 

Not an accusation, unclear wording, which is on me and I apologize. That wasn't meant as a direct quote of you, but a paraphrase of a justification people have used.

 

I'm with redrev1917 totally. I'll add respect from the customers has to be earned and the way DTG tend to ignore their customers complaints will ultimately make them customers walk away especially when something better comes along. I remember forums where the game in question certainly wasn't the best in it's genre but because respect was shown to the customers they stuck with the game.

Of course abuse aimed at anyone isn't going to help anyone but surely people should be able to point out errors, bugs etc without people being butthurt and an acknowledgement of the bug would go a long way in addressing the issue.

 

I think that's missing the point.

I've not said DTG are completely immune from criticism from the community. Of course criticism is needed to better the game for everyone, and DTG aren't immune from that. Valid criticism whether said strongly or softly, is completely allowed aslong as it is constructive and isn't making personal statements or being personally abusive to staff members. I'm sure DTG more then anyone knows they have ongoing issues but that's another story.

I've already acknowledged and conceded that there has been a boiling point from the last 6 months... But this is where I differ. The amount of abuse, not just at DTG, but also third party developers are receiving isn't on and as far as I'm concerned is completely out of order.

It's easy to make a statement and I've not wanted to mention any names or draw anyone into this who might not want to be involved. I've already give the example of the AAS TVL which ended up just being a melting pot of maliciousness a few days before release... But I'll give you another example. Harry was on a stream a few months back and the day after the poor girl come on here and saw some absolutely disgusting abuse about her personality and contribution to a stream, and it was genuinely nasty and made personal comments about her personality that even she felt she had to defend. She shouldn't of needed to defend herself in the first place, she should not of been subjected to abuse. That isn't criticism of DTGs policies, that's outright bullying as far as I'm concerned and the way members made her feel could of really knocked her confidence on streams. But did anyone apologise to her? Did anyone acknowledge the bullying? No. Even if people wasn't keen on her presentation, was it necessary to attack her the way they did? Absolutely not. That's just a single example off of the top of my head that I've witnessed. That isn't a single incident.

A lot of people are dissatisfied with parts of the game at the moment just as much as others, but they still manage to conduct themselves like adults and have some decency not to personally abuse others. And as far as I've seen, this is still an ongoing issue. And as much as others disagree with me, I do think as members of the community we do have a duty as decent human beings to call out this behaviour as much as I'd call out verbal abuse of someone in real life rather than be just a bystander. A moderator has an official title to implement punishments on the forum, but us as members should be calling out these incidents when they happen and make sure etiquette, decency and respect is maintained.

I am not for a second advocating for genuine and valid criticism to be muted in anyway. But I am advocating putting people in their place when they get abusive. You should treat people, how you would conduct yourself in real life. It really isn't controversial or a lot to ask for.

 

SierraOscar95, you write a novel telling me I have 'missed the point' and then go on about someone who suffered abuse. Did you read my message at all? I said abuse is not needed.

 

I did read your message and interpreted as abuse isn't on, but DTG don't help themselves by bringing it on through their current management of the game? Have I misunderstood? Sincerely tell me if I'm wrong and that's not meant to sound argumentative either.

I've tried being diplomatic and polite in my response to you and would appreciate the same back, because even this response is sort of proving the climate I am on about.

 

Do what? You take offence at what I wrote? I talk straight.

I was trying to say if DTG do not acknowledge peoples complaints then they will walk and as DTG get the majority if not all their money from add on's you would of thought they spend some time doing this on the forums instead of talking about pet snakes or whatever.

It wasn't long ago that DTG had their own 'bug' team and I thought people responded well to them and reading some Playstation woes it seems a few have deleted their game but if you think ignoring customers is a winning strategy then you do you.

 

Again don't take this the wrong way as messages don't always translate as well as something said in person... I think there is a massive difference between just 'talking straight' and just being slightly rude. I interpreted some of that message as just being slightly rude, not straight talking straight. But I don't want to derail this thread with bickering. Let's just let that part go...

Again I'm not going to agree or disagree with what you say about DTG or the directions it's gone. I get the frustration and criticism to some extent. Some of it I get, some it I don't but that is irrelevant. Whatever has caused this increase in personal abuse isn't justified to me. That was my point. There are people who are equally as frustrated with what's happening with the game, but it doesn't lead them to be abusive to staff or Devs and they can conduct themselves in a productive way and voice that concern like adults. Whatever the underlying cause is is one thing. People criticising the game is fine. Personal abuse isn't. That is just a cut and shut thing for me.

 

Y

You're just blowing this up way to much and make it a community problem. I know what some people said about Harry after that stream and this wasn't fair to her at all and I felt sorry for her. But it was not like the whole forum was attacking her, so don't blame the whole community, but only the few who did.

The previous AAS route was released with a lot of issues. Just before the release of their new route they did an update, cutting back stuff and it has still issues. So yeah, people get frustrated, because of a long overdue patch not solving the issues and being forced to use a reduced timetable because the cause hasn't be solved. The communication was unclear, a post of a dev was removed, because AAS wanted it to be removed and the statement after it also did not explain that much.

I don't say people are allowed to abuse a company after they not handle things well, but this is something what can happen in those cases. But I hope it will be a lesson for AAS and DTG to do a better job.

Attacking Harry about her personality was way out of line, but again this where a few individuals, you can't blame a whole community for this. There always will be some *ssholes and it's up to DTG to deal with them as part of their moderation job.

 

There’s also a fine line between banter and abuse. I (probably) shouldn’t have made reference to “pink headphones” in past threads when complaining about lack of attention to genuine concerns versus the gibbering on the streams. Slightly irreverent maybe, but not malicious. Same as referring collectively to the DTG management structure appearing at times like a bunch of excited kindergarteners! And just to confirm, I cannot ever recall being sanctioned or banned for such postings.

There’s also an element of cause and effect here. By pouting and withdrawing from the forums, DTG quite possibly lose some respect which in turn leads some of the less acceptable comments being aimed in their direction.

Bottom line, as always, is they are supposed to be a professional multi £million business enterprise and their community relations need to reflect that with, in return, the amity from the customer user base.

 

Hmm, I think this thread has come to the end of its useful life, just like TSW.

I think the root cause of the high emotions is a product with too many faults to viably correct now, and which go back to design decisions made five or more years ago.

The only remedy is for DTG to start again.

I have only been dipping my toe in TSW, and only buying content at least 80% discounted, but I think that has to stop.

My advice is to accept TSW isn't going to get better. Enjoy what you've got, if you can, or find something else to do.

 

Finally a post that clearly represents reality.
That's all there is to say.
IronBladder=10/10.

 

They keep dangling the occasional gem in front of us, though. The recently released Trent Valley, upcoming JT route, the German steam route and the Class 70 are all wallet tempters.

 

Just like your next lottery ticket will be the big winner?

Even if those DLC don't have annoying specific bugs, you will soon grow tired of their novelty when the pop-ins, stutters, blurry textures etc still remain.

My advice is to wait for those to be fixed before you buy anything else at anything other than a deep discount. In the meantime, use the money saved for some nice, shared activities with Mrs Vern. That will give you more happy memories in the end.

 

It was really sad what they said about Harry. Yes she talks a lot on streams but she is just herself and I like that. She is also funny and from what I get, a kind person. I saw an interview with her, where she was talking about her youth and the railway back then, it was very interesting. I really think you can talk for hours and hours with her and have a good time with a lot of fun and laughing. She really didn't deserve that hate.

 

Wait, they bullied Harry away? What a **** move.

+1 for support for Harry. She looks like an amazing person.

 

No. A bad product isn't a valid excuse for toxicity. The root cause is a select few people who can't seem to behave themselves. The sooner we rid ourselves of these people, the better. Unfortunately, the only thing we can do is report toxic behaviour and let the moderators do their jobs.

I will thanks. Still enjoying TSW. It's not a bad product.

 

I doubt toxicity in the community really influences sales. I think only a small part of the playerbase actually engages in the community. And considering TSW is a single player game, toxicity in the community has no influance on the gameplay experience.

 

Matt has stated he finds the forums hard to read, he hasn't been a regular on here for a long time, other DTG staff have said the same.

We could make excuses and deny that it has anything to do with toxicity on the forums of course. More conspiracy theories do not help, this is something which has become endemic on these forums.

As for Harry, whilst a few did stick up for her, but there are a lot of silent voices as they probably don't want to get involved or didn't particularly care. The only way nastiness will stop if those posters see that their nastiness does not fit the narrative of the forum and gets "called out" by many and their actions have consequences, i.e. getting banned. However, I suspect many of these people are so self-absorbed they could never believe they did anything wrong or don't care.

 

Matt too? Because of toxicity.

Recently, Maik Goltz seems to have left the forums too. https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/running-train-sim.97697/page-4#post-1123291

I don't think it's our job to start a fight with the toxic people. I'm not a fan of backseat moderation by regular forum users. I think that's a job best left to the official moderators.

And DTG should step in to protect their employees from abuse. I guess telling them to stop interacting on the forums is one way to do that, but it does create a larger gap between the community and the developers, and punishes a large part of the community who does properlly interact with developers. I think I'd prefer a stricter moderation policy to prevent abuse. I'd love to see Harry, Matt, Maik and who else left the forums, back on the forums interacting with the community and providing interesting technical insights on why TSW does the things it does.

 

That is fair enough and it really isn't our job but people will continue to behave like this if they think people agree with them.

Is the game in a downwward spiral? There has been some great content released and I still spend a lot of time on it, there seems to be a lot of content in the pipeline. Yes there are some DLC which have been released which isn't up to scratch, but I don't buy those so I don't get annoyed by them. I am on PC and for me the game runs very well, but I realise for many console users they are having a different experience.