This thread will probably be digitally vaporized in a matter of days so I am going to take a serious liberty and float a conspiracy theory like a genteel Surrey version of loudmouth American crackpot Alex Jones! I suspect that given the utter fiasco of Metro Rivals and the presumed monetary losses incurred there is now a bit of a black hole in the DTG financial plans going forward for the next year or two. Maybe if the upper echelons at DTG listened to the feedback in the General Discussion section of this forum they would have realised what a doomed pea brained concept the whole Metro Rivals thing was but it is too late now. How do DTG make up for a loss of planned income? Simple, they go back to the disgusting and immoral practice of charging for the next yearly edition update like they did before. I don't think TSW7 will have a free update version for existing customers. The reason they switched to a free update sales model was because of the bitter and often angry resentment the charged updates produced most noticeably on the General Discussion section of this forum. I guess you can see where I am going with this... If TSW7 is going back to conning customers into paying again for essentially the same game they have already bought (sometimes numerous times) then they would want to silence all dissent on the forums and doing away with the GD section is the way to go. I sincerely hope I am proved wrong and will gladly feed my tin foil hat into a shredder if that is so.
I think you are being unfair to DTG. They make poor product backing decisions, have a shambolic QC process and don't seem to have the ability to fix serious problems with the game, but I don't think they are corrupt. The thing that worries me is if they give up on TSW as being suitable for further development and create a new incompatible train simulator. I think that's increasingly likely.
I'm not sure it was the forum that did the free "upgrade" thing, I think its far more likely to be third party developers rightly concerned that people won't buy a 3 route pack they don't care about in order to be able to run a new third party route that they do.
The OP is not entirely implausible but if DTG went down that road, it would be all over Facebook, YouTube, other forums, the Steam Forum and not just Discord where the Google bots can't penetrate. And they surely know that if they do start charging again, more than a few customers would simply stick with TSW6. The only add ons on the Roadmap I conceivably might want and then only in a sale going forward are the next JT route (Cumbrian Coast) and the German steam route. However I think we have more chance of seeing Iceland (if not Ireland too) and the Coaches expansion for ETS2 before we see the TSG route and I would hazard a guess the JT route is going to be Q1 or Q2 next year. Plenty of time for TSW7 to qualify for its desperation 80% off sale at Christmas or the Festival Of Rail.
Therefore, the two-month period between July and August is shaping up to be a real financial suicide for TSW users (at least for those who continue to make purchases), considering all the DLC already announced in the RM and assuming TSW 7 is released in September.
And of course the opening post is really going to make DTG want to keep the forums open! I wonder if all these people with the crystal balls will come back and say they were wrong if it turns out their crystal balls are faulty. Frankly I don't know if I want to be part of this "community" if this the levels it has stooped to. Drama and hyperbole seems to be the order of the day. If think it is better just to enjoy the sim and forget about the "community".
DTG sells dlcs (without much guilt and at full price) defective for console, until proven otherwise. Ultimately, with this methodology, I don't think conjecture is out of place... I'm not saying that DTG is defrauding its customers (because they aren't forced to make purchases with a gun pointed at his temple), but there is something wrong, and it's a fact. Try to look at the whole thing.
Absolutely agree but there would still be people who blindly defend DTG like there were in the past. Are some brutal home truths and free thinking now reason enough to shut down a forum section? No one is forcing you. Bye bye.
My 2 pence….the next iteration of TSW will continue with the same model as the previous versions. A clean break will be made from TSW8 using a new game engine, probably UE5 but maybe a completely new engine to coincide with the release of the next generation of consoles with their respective increase in VRAM or unified RAM. A lot but not all of the current problems are down to the limitations of this current gen and it simply isnt worth the time or effort to fix. DTG obviously have an private internal roadmap which they are working to. Third parties will continue making DLC for TSW7 as some have already confirmed Roadmaps for the next 2 years. Honestly I foresee that the current and future versions of TSW will continue in parallel much like TSC did/does when TSW first emerged.
IMHO if DTG is hiding something it would be that they are working on TSW Next. TBH many of us asked DTG repeatedly to not launch so much new DLC and spend more time fixing the old ones, so I am not surprised when I see them do it. The GWE remaster was a great success, the ECW remaster was good and the TOD4 update to SKA was just OK (the updated timetable was also very good, but it was released previously). Another thing I have heard a lot from DTG, usually after we complain that some asset or area is not even close to the quality we expect, is that they run out of budget and they couldn't put more time into it. When I hear that I always say it is a bad decision to release DLC with sections that are very noticeably below average, that they should reorganize their time better or go a bit over the budget. Basically, what I want them is to release the DLC when it is ready (as the game studios with great reputation used to do some years ago). It seems it is quite difficult to predict exactly how long the development of a DLC is going to take or what unexpected issues will happen, and they cant extend the budget for the development of a DLC past a certain point because it becomes a problem of risk management. What happens if they think the route they are releasing is awesome but we, the customers, do not think the same? So, who can spend as much time as needed to finish a DLC no matter what? Mostly 3Ps, specially the ones that are rail fans, earn their living doing something else and make DLCs both as a hobby and a way to earn extra cash. Those can keep working on a DLC at their own pace for as long as needed. And I have to say, we like the result. Don't we love it when we hear a 3P spent year and a half or 2 years doing something and it ends up being great? Sure we do. Can we blame DTG for noticing it and going that route as much as possible? Don't think so. If I can complain about something it is that they released a ton of the DLCs in the same month, or that there are still many issues that are fixed internally but not fixed in the [public] game because of QA, builds, etc ... but not because they are letting 3Ps do most of the new DLCs.
It won't be until 2030 before the PS6 is as widely available as the PS5, and even then, many won't have the money for the upgrade. Meanwhile, let's see how the PS5 handles GTA in November...
2030 before its widely available? Where are you getting your info from because that’s not what my sources are saying I’m afraid!
This conspiracy theory makes the HUGE, unfounded assumption that you "lose" money when offering a "free upgrade." Two problems with that. a) Very few people actually got the free upgrade and NOTHING ELSE. Most did in fact go onto purchase other content, which they might not have. It made them money, even when "free" at first. b) It doesn't cost DTG anything. Unlike say a car that has metal and plastic, etc to produce... once TSW 7 we'll say is created... it's done. Offering the core upgrade to another person doesn't cost them anything additional. They're ALREADY making it for the thousands of other people who will download it for the new routes, so there's no cost. If just one person who was on the fence buys it and then later buys one DLC in the year....that's profit. It's like if you have a highway you're already building for cars to drive down and it's paid for (like here in the states) through gas taxes...then if you let a bicyclist ride on it, it's not really costing you anything. The road was already going to be built and is already paid for by the huge number of car and truck drivers who are paying for it with gas taxes. The bicyclist using it doesn't cost you anything additional. In this case, substantial number of players who get the "free" core then buy DLC later, so it's net profit to offer it.
The other possibility is they just won’t call it TSW7 and simply continue with a core update and content bundle, but that’s ground we’ve already gone over in other threads. And with all due respect to the sentiments expressed by The Organist, I don’t see anything wrong per se with the OP. It was the speculation last year about TSW6 which encouraged DTG to make an earlier announcement than usual. The one thing we can be certain of, is there do seem to be changes afoot so nowt wrong with encouraging a bit of transparency.
that doesn't make sense, because in that case it would please everyone (unless there's someone who actually enjoys downloading gigabytes upon gigabytes of DLCs every year) and I find it strange that the TSW general discussion section is being removed while the TSC one remains
Given what they have done with Catan and Fishing which, AFAIK are still live titles I’m very surprised they haven’t decided to kill off the whole TSC section. After all, on PC at least, it’s still a direct rival to their ambitions for TSW and must abstract at least some revenue from the latter.
The very fact the word "conning" is in there for a start is troublesome. No one is "conned" everyone knows what they are getting before they buy. I imagine that is the sort of comment which DTG doesn't like to see. The words "disgusting" and "immoral" too, who bandies the word immoral around on a trainsim forum. Who made the OP the moral harbinger of these forums? Anyway keep burying your heads in the sand, if DTG are indeed culling this forum because of things said on the forum, then I would say the OP is a prime example of why.
I do because the practice of yearly charged updates WAS a con and both disgusting and immoral. It made me and and many others walk away from this franchise for a number of years. I only returned when DTG finally admitted the error of their ways and changed for the better. It was the collective actions of numerous people like myself that nudged DTG into doing the right thing. I am simply just speaking my mind as a customer since 2019 who has 183gb of content and have personal experience of the dodgy manner in which DTG has operated in the past. I am not willing to suffer corporate amnesia and bury the unpleasant truth because it may hurt someone's feelings. As an individual who treasures my freedom, I am both entitled and proud to have moral values that dictate my life choices. I am NOT trying to force my moral stance on anyone else but am just expressing myself with a small tongue in cheek post about the demise of this much loved forum section. Is that now illegal? I suggest that it is you that has taken the bizarre decision to assume the mantle of Commissioner of the thought Police on here. Maybe the closure of GD has a silver lining in that I will no longer need to endure pompous and overbearing attempted rule enforcement from people clearly delusional about their own self importance.
I think TSW6 being on sale on Xbox and Steam (up to 80%, even for the Special Edition) tells you that TSW7 is on the way. It's rare to have a game - especially not it's deluxe/special editions - go that low if it has a fair amount of time left in it's lifecycle.
I believe TSW5 and TSW4 were also on sale for that same discount at the same time so the pattern does seem to be continuing.
You’ve really become quite arrogant as a studio if you release TSW7 without any major improvements. I would honestly find it pretty disrespectful if you put out TSW7 with exactly the same issues or only minimal fixes, leaving console players stuck with the same problems again. That’s why I’m wondering whether DTG would actually do that. Either way, I’m expecting practically nothing this year.
I would agree that DTG make some really stupid decisions (Metro Rivals, TSW VR, TSW Tycoon) but there's no reason to suggest they'd stop doing the free upgrades. The backlash would be too severe.
It's all just marketing. Is it "immoral" to release a new car every year? The "Chevy Silverado 2013" was followed by the "Chevy Silverado 2014" then the "Chevy Silverado 2015" You can say "Hey, they're almost the same truck with just minor changes!" Yes...that's true. But it gets people to buy the "latest model." It's not immoral at all. The very claim is odd and incorrect to use if you know what the word means. Immoral implies intentional dishonesty or wickedness. If it happens every year and nothing is hidden.... that's the opposite of immoral. Now if you don't like it... well you can not like it. In that case just say you don't like it. Don't pretend it's dishonest or "hidden." Calling someone dishonest when they aren't is itself ironically dishonest on your part. What's wrong with just saying you don't like it personally and leaving it there? Why lie about it?
With the current state of the game and DLC's and the slow patching, it would be insane to not release a free starter pack for at least owners of TSW6. Otherwise it will mean you have to pay money to receive patched for your current owned routes. For example Kinzigtalbahn and Frankfurt S-bahn received patches last month, while those routes are from TSW5, so those fixes where overdue for a long time. That being said, if they're going the path of only paid versions of TSW7, it's done for me and I guess I'm not the only one thinking that way.
Humility is what suits DTG best, so as far as I’m concerned there shouldn’t be a new game version. They should instead work hard on the many promises made about the current state of the game. Paying customers are your income, and if they arrogantly release a new game version now without truly major performance improvements, that would be very disappointing. I say skip TSW7, or whatever it may be called, and stick to the principle that promises must be kept and definitely don’t hide those things behind a paywall.
I have not seen any official DTG source talk about not offering a free upgrade to TSW 7. If they do I will be the first to complain about it, but so far I'm seeing many people very worried about something that might not finally happen.
In theory I'd somewhat agree the most logical sense would be to improve TSW6 before any successor titles come out... But I did see a few interviews with JT & AAS on ambassador streams and they have both said there will be a 'big summer reveal'. Whether that means just more routes without a new edition of the game or whether it will be TSW7 will be anyone's guess. But apparently we have a lot lined up. Liams 387 pack and the ScotRail HST seemed to be being held off for some announcement in my opinion. Open to interpretation of course... Exciting stuff, but absolutely useless to me if vast improvements aren't made!
I hadn't seen any official DTG source talk about closing GD until a few days ago, and yet it's happening in a few days time, and as Jan said:
That's exactly what I'm trying to tell you. That came from nowhere, and still when DTG announced it you can see there has been a strong community reaction. React to the problems when they happen. Worrying about all the bad stuff that could potentially happen is a huge energy drain.
As a goalkeeper, it's a lot easer to make a save if you start figuring out which way they are going to send it before they actually kick the ball. The "No free version TSW7" could be completely wrong, but things are feeling a certain way right now.
Let me turn that example back to you. If a goalkeeper jumps too soon in the wrong direction, he will be on the ground when the ball is sent to the opposite side and unable to stop it. Not saying not to mention the possibility of not getting a free version of TSW7 this year but it is important to notice the difference between a hunch and a fact and not make a huge snowball of something before it actually happens.
I am giving my opinion, not trying to police anyone. Why do you think DTG want ot get rid of this forum? Don't you think posts insinuating they have conned people and are acting immoral might just be the straw which breaks the camels back. I am wondering if some on here actually want that to be an outcome. When people accuse people of trying to "police the forums" it is usually them trying to do so, as the conversation is not going in a direction they want it to. There is nothing constructive in the OP nor in many of the "tin foil" hat responses, however now they are out there, people will start saying things like, I read on the forum that there will not be a free started pack in TSW7, then it becomes fact. Some balance and responsibility would be nice, but I am beginning to think there are some who just want to try and cause trouble and have no intention of being constructive or fair minded and as long as they have a coterie of people agreeing with them, then they are happy. They may well be the ones to blame if the forum disappears but it will just be "nasty DTG" trying to suppress free speech, which is nonsence as they have been very accomodating over the last few years, much more so than many companies would be.
uThere are some routes, such as Tadaki line that have been "coming soon" for a while. I wonder whether they get held back to release with whatever the "big summer update" is. A new country for a core release. Again I'd probably hang on until the huge discounts arrive in the sales if there's a free core update available. At least they've stepped away from the "this update is so big we thought we'd release it as a whole new title" stuff they used to pull. Was always difficult watching Colonel Failure trying to talk his way out of that. Unfortunately I also have a feeling that it's going to end up making the XBox Series S unviable as a platform. There's already stuff coming out with the "this will not work properly on XBox Series S" disclaimer and I only just picked one up as I'd been missing playing TSW. My timing is exquisite, as always.
it is absolutely unlikely (if not impossible) DTG will never release a third-party route as a base/core route for a TSW iteration, that has never happened in TSW's history and likely won't regarding tadami line, it will probably end up being saved for TSW7 (much like the santa fe pack, which was supposed to release with TSW5 but was delayed until TSW6)
