General Discussion Has Survived (just)

Sorry, I think you misunderstood my point about the double threads. What I meant is that for the moderators it’s becoming increasingly difficult to keep an overview because of the sheer number of threads. When you look at everything that happens in just one weekend, it’s almost impossible to manage it all with the limited time available. That’s why I mentioned limiting the number of new threads. Merging threads also has its downsides as users we end up with very strange storylines, which makes it less appealing to follow.

 

I get what you're saying... but that's the good part of volunteer moderation, you're not on a fixed schedule with tiny number of mods. Also, by deleting or merging it also doesn't always work because a) someone's thread gets priority over the other person's, making them THINK it's favoritism, and b) it's entirely a judgement call. Often there are 3 different threads that are 3 entirely different discussions but on the same subject. Say the horn on a train on a route.... another on the scenery on a route... and another the timetable on a route. Yes they're all the same route... but those are very different things and smashing those three conversations in the same thread can be insanely confusing and garbled.

I just don't see having more than one thread on a topic to be a major issue. Many of them get a couple posts and disappear if they're truly redundant. I see the bigger issue being behavior.

 

The difficult thing with volunteers is that checking someone's background isn't straightforward, so there's a high risk of trouble. Besides, we've already seen enough of what's been leaked, so I'm almost certain that's not the route DTG wants to take.

 

Again, I don't see the major issue. It's a very low-stakes position. No pay. No benefits. No connection to the company. Limited actions available. The volunteers wouldn't even be doing the "enforcing" in all likelihood, just triaging things to only send up higher for "punishment" in serious situations.

 

The flip side is that people end up posting the same thing to multiple threads as the conversation in each inevitably flows towards the same things. Then you get other users not remembering which thread had which slightly different point; for example, see the multiple Crewe to Preston threads, with JT not always seeing the various feedback across those.

It's really not so difficult to have one official feedback thread and one official discussion thread, then move posts to those threads if some people think their opinion is so important that it deserves its own thread (clue: it isn't).

 

The problem is boosting of the same discussions. So a thread is died out with reactions then you get people they try with a small different approach to re-start the same discussion again

 

If people didn’t want to discuss those things (even if they’re the same point across different threads) then they wouldn’t be discussed, that’s the reason you’d see them (or not) in the first place.

There are several examples of older discussions being ‘necrobumped’ or duplicated discussions started & they never last long because most of the discussion does happen in only one thread or people just aren’t interested in it & it dies off.

To your point of feedback threads and devs not seeing things, those threads just don’t get looked at by devs after a few days, staff are responsive for a short while & then anything posted a couple of weeks later just gets no response. The only way things get traction is on the back of GD, even if if is just someone wondering why an issue has been seemingly ignored & the community discusses that point.

I don’t think anyone is making the point that absolutely everything in GD is worthwhile, but some of it is & when it comes to route & content discussion it’s by far the more popular way to do it.

I’d be less against the removal of GD if DTG would be willing to setup discussion threads about content as soon as it becomes known, but we all know that DTG do not like to discuss anything up until the release is on top of us. We’d get a roadmap with 10 routes on & 8 of those wouldn’t get an official discussion thread until months later - we could discuss it on the roadmap thread but how much of a mess would it be having every subject discussed within one post?

Even outside of content, there are still several other topics that members like to discuss that are still relevant to TSW, which don’t have a place in official posts.

 

I do hope DTG reverse the decision to close the General Discussion forums. It has gone down very negative with the community and like many decisions taken recently, people are angry. Appreciate DTG are a business and it is all about ensuring the parent company gets bang for its buck! I think I speak in parallel with most, in that we don’t want DTG to fail. We like Train Sim World, that’s why we are frustrated when things don’t work as they should or as expected.

 

Very disappointing news. Discord sucks.

 

I must say the England V Panama game has left me in higher spirits. Well done!

 

Just because you are respectful doesn’t mean others here aren’t. Too me that’s the main issue I see is that while many here are respectful and provide constructive criticism, the louder ones are completely disrespectful and their “feedback” is nothing more than berating, name calling, and baseless accusations.

I’m part of several forums for different sims/games and over the last year, this has become by far the worst to visit for general conversation around TSW. It seems like most threads end up becoming bickering between members or accusations against employees or mods. And I’ve said it here a few times, but based on responses and commentary here from that loud minority, you’d think the average age was no higher than a teenager when in reality is grown adults.

It’s just become a chore to visit here these days and while I don’t agree with the upcoming changes, I hope it filters out the noise and we can get back to proper conversation and constructive criticism so we can make the product a much improved one going forward.

 

One of the biggest issues to overcome, which will not be achieved by reducing the forum structure are those who are convinced they are right and everyone else is wrong and go to extreme argumentative lengths to try and shout down the opposite point of view. Even in this thread we have seen it. The barrack room, or keyboard, lawyer syndrome. Sadly that’s a wider issue with human nature in general and something probably even I’ve been guilty of on occasion. So what’s needed, whether by the forum CoC or just appealing to common sense - by all means disagree with what someone has posted then agree to differ and leave it there. Don’t keep berating because you feel you need to win a war.

The other slightly irksome tendency is third parties discussing a named individual. Happened to me a few weeks ago when the performance and optimisation of Preston to Crewe was under discussion. Yes, I have a potato PC and yes I’m happy to try and melt my GTX 1650 by running 4K and being happy with 25 FPS. But that should not be the object of scorn or ridicule. Luckily I have broad shoulders and shrugged it off with a belly laugh and a few expletives in the general direction of those making the comments. However again, that isn’t going to disappear because GD and OT are gone, in fact that discussion probably happened in the Dovetail Live or Official Feedback thread for the route.

 

Discord.
The very name puts me off.
Life's too short for any of that nonsense.

 

That's the most perfect description of Discord I've ever seen.

 

Yeah, makes the idea of an independent forum sound more appealing. Even some of the "compromises" mentioned here ... "everything I don't like is toxic" - "every new thread needs approved by a mod" - what kind of dystopian forum would that be? XD

 

Well said Vern

 

We need another UKTrainsim where we had solid moderators that took no prisoners if DtG decide to close GD. I will be very upset if GD is removed, I've had a lot of help from this subforum over the many years I've used it.
There is no room on a forum for personal degrading attacks on anyone period, and such individuals should be removed or sent on a holiday like they did on UK Trainsim forums. And Discord is an absolute no from me too I do not like the format at all.

 

I think I've worked out what my issue with Discord is.

Forums are like sitting down with a glass of wine and having a mostly friendly, sometimes provocative deep-level chat with someone who has the same interests as you.

Discord is like the drunk at the bar grabbing your arm and shouting his/her ill-informed "hot takes" at you.

 

Well this weekend has shown that DTG are probably justified in what they are doing.

This thread, the alternate forum thread turned into exactly what they are trying to stop with the bickering, name calling, arguing with DTG staffand ganging up on users that don't agree with the room.

And add to that some has started a conspiracy theory thread as well.

All you've shown is the communtity cannot self moderate.

Add more volunteer mods? I wouldn't trust any member on here to be un-biased.

And no one knows DTG's budget so are you going to pay for DTG's new hired ones.

 

Yes the tinfoil hat thread is a masterpiece of the cloth-eared, tone deafness of some members of the community.

DTG "we want to close the forums"

Community "this is really upsetting please change your mind"

DTG "we will think about it over the weekend"

Certain community members "DTG con people, DTG are immoral, DTG are trying to censor free speach, DTG are disgusting"

Frankly it is unbelievable.

 

At the same time, let's pay them for fixing bugs, because they don't have enough people to fix any major ones. Or better yet, let's just give them all the money. Or let's stop digging into their finances.

I like that regular users come and start talking about closing the forum on behalf of DTG.
Without any additional data, they invent what they like on top of what the CM gives us. And they always blame others for something.

Why can't you just walk past? I'm not interested in German add-ons, and I don't go into corresponding topics with texts like "it would be better if DTG didn't waste time and money on creating useless German routes". Learn to ignore what doesn't interest you.

 

I'd volunteer to become a moderator but my time playing Tropico 4 proved I just can't be trusted with any power.

I set out trying to build a utopian, equal society run with a focus on stamping out violence and corruption.
By the end of the second session I'd cancelled elections and had a journalist "disappeared" for challenging my policies.

Though I was a half decent football referee for 10 years, so I'm not all bad, promise.

 

General Discussion Is Gone
General discussion "Im getting better"
DTG "No, you're not. You'll be stone dead in a moment".

 

Again because I don't agree with the majority you telling me to leave.

Maybe practice what you preach and if you don't like my opinion don't reply.

 

Do you know why people indent posts? To change the topic or subject. I quoted you. And then I indented it. Not addressing you personally. But I'm glad it touched you, it means you realized that you are one of them/us

 

What does Franky have to say about it?

 

That's the result of typing without my glasses on!

 

It's not a direct quote, but he told me to relax.

 

Hi cadamcedtg what does "clipped" mean?

 

By the way. People in different countries or regions of the same country communicate differently. Some people can feel like they are not respected, even though the other person doesn't mean anything like that. If it is customary in your country to always and everywhere speak respectfully, this does not mean that people in other countries are used to speaking the same way. And not because they are bad people, but because that's how they've been doing it, since childhood. And childhood habits are the most persistent.

 

Hi candacedtg, that doesn't sound like you , what makes you short, annoyed or condescending with people? We will try and fix it.

 

Hi Cadancedtg I think you are avoiding the issue, are you ok? Could you tell us about the other forums you moderate for and what you have learned from doing that?

We need more people as dedicated as you so its important to know what barriers you face.

 

Hi Cadancedtg. It's a Sunday so I am goofing off. Do you not goof off on a Sunday?

 

It is approaching the 24 hour mark for the closing of general discussion.

tomorrow is the perfect time for DTG to U-turn this decision.

we must make our voices heard. It is not over yet.

 

Thing is, where do we post about general stuff? Not everyone wants to use Discord, if we just want to discuss a certain route or Locomotive. Where do we go?

 

i’ve been following this thread over the weekend but haven’t contributed anything but i feel like as a community we’re letting ourselves down. for a few days, there was the most amazing agreement over something that we feel is fundamental to the game and the community of players who’ve given so much and often not received their fair share back. unfortunately, the past day or two things have taken the turn they normally take, in that squabbles and insults over minor things have completely overshadowed the whole point of this thread. we’re completely letting ourselves down and providing direct examples that dtg could use to evidence the decision to shut GD down. none of us want that, so it’s important that we continue to be civil and respectful of each other because if not we can wave goodbye to the forum as we know it. finally, just to note this:

this sounds promising, very promising but it’s still not over yet. all we can do is hope but it seems dtg are taking serious consideration over whether they made the correct decision. once again, if the decision is reversed then i’d like to think the vast majority of players here will give dtg no grief about it: in a way it’s an understandable decision, but ultimately the wrong one. having seen all of the input from CMs since the thread opens it’s clear there was never any malice in the decision to close GD, just an error of judgement which, if the decision is reversed, can be forgiven

 

You could just keep general discussion open.
I am telling you know, you are going to have a lot of actively engaged people suddenly less engaged with the sim and that will in the long run negatively affect sales.