Not seen much chatter on this one. Johannes dropped in the roadmap that Mildmay extension will feature “licensed” South West Trains liveried AI representations of the SWT 450’s.. This is potentially quite interesting, no? SWT has previously not granted licensing, so could this be foreshadowing what may be to come in the TSW7 update? Last year GWR made a re-appearance pre-announcement and was then star of the show in TSW6 Riviera… Be interested in what the Richmond version will be livery wise… is it SWT à la Midland Mainline, SWT bright red or blue colours, or South Western Railway MTR livery
There’s definitely precedent with the GWR license resurfacing this time last year, so wouldn’t be surprised at all if we get a SW core route.
They've had the SWT license for ages IIRC. The new Portsmouth Direct Line and the SWML for TSC are fully licensed SWT routes.
If I'm right you need for every game, sometimes for every route a separate licence. It's not you have it for TSC it means it's automatically for TSW. It depends on what conditions are made for a license.
I think something that those who aren't familiar with UK railways need to remember, South West Trains hasn't existed since 2017 when the franchise was taken over by South Western Railway. Although SWT was a Stagecoach brand, I'm fairly certain it would be the DfT who own the rights to previous franchise brands which may have made acquiring it easier then SWR given DTGs good relationship with the DfT. So having SWT in the game isn't an admission of something that may be backhanded announcement of anything else... If DTG were going to do a SWML route, I'd imagine they'd aim for SWR opposed to SWT. I'm not saying that with 100% certainty, as DTG could well make a SWT route, but if they did it would have to be a route set in 2017 or earlier. It's not impossible, but it does seem unlikely given most of their modern routes are 'upto date'. Just remember SWT is a dormant brand, and SWR is the current brand. Look at MML, it is set in the past as EMT doesn't exist anymore, and is EMR now so as I said it's not impossible, but it is very unlikely. Although SWR has been in public ownership since last year, I imagine previously when it was owned privately that licencing may have been refused hence why we haven't seen it in the game and hence why SWT has been chosen for the NLL 450 AI.
Now that I think about it, it's odd this is a licenced reskin of a train never owned (afaik) by that operator, I'd have thought they'd only licence the skin for a train belonging to their fleet. Also, this seems to clash with the prior statement I remember that newly licenced content needed to be it's own DLC and not as just AI
Well wasn't the Elizabeth Line branded as just AI stock. I'm not sure if a TfL liscence would cover everything.
SWT operated Class 450s which are near enough identical in appearance to the 350s, apart from being DC only. Secondly I'm fairly certain that the 350/1 seen on WCMLS were originally destined to be Class 450s but a regulatory body stepped in and reallocated the order to Silverlink/Central trains and they become Class 350s. So they are linked, and SWT did operate Desiros, as do SWR.
very expertly expectation managed there! But there MUST be something broader… it’s a lot of effort to go to for just AI at Richmond? if it is that, then fair play for going the extra mile … but I dare to dream
Clearly just shows the level of popularity a SWT route would have through, on various threads this small announcement of a reskin has kicked off a bit of a frenzy, of which I’m guilty of too as I would love a South Western route
It would strange if they went for the license solely for a stand-in reskin - albeit very pleasing. One would suspect this will be Dovetail's work and Johannes is making the most of it. Dovetail have a license anyway for TSC and the DfT basically just give them anything they want of the dormant licenses so I'd imagine it's a case that Dovetail just haven't bothered to ask until now. The 450 is pretty similar to the 350 so a full conversion job for a potential future route wouldn't be implausible I'd think. Perhaps the reskinned 350 will be replaced come September...
Nothing really preventing the Class 700 from being chopped into a SWT red surburban 707 version either now really. Would be missing a trick there for more AI variety on Mildmay
I was always of the understanding you need one license and the licensor just needs to approve each use.
Thats nearly the same. I was pointing out that you did not have automatically the licence for all products when you have it for one product.
We did see a very similar thing with the XC license last year, we got a smaller product towards the end of TSW5 & then TSW6 launched with the Voyager. Personally though I really hope it isn’t going to be the case. We’ve had plenty of 350’s, not really going to be interested in their sister fleet. Even the 159 at this point would be meh. We need more time between all these repeating trains, and something fully fresh for a new entrance to the TSW series.
Fair comment but there is considerable traction pardon the pun behind a SW route. We have SouthEastern and Southern covered pretty extensively, a bit of Stagecoach would fit in nicely
Don’t get me wrong, I’ve always advocated for SWR & it would offer a different geographic experience wherever the route would be & whilst there is a wealth of traction it’s going to be pretty predictable as to what the era would be, meaning we’d just get the Desiros. I just don’t think after 1-2 years of the same British EMU’s that we need more of them right now. All things considered though if it were a case of 450’s & 444’s coming, then Johannes likely wouldn’t need to use the livery on a 350, so probably not going to be the case.
I fully agree with the point of “recycled” traction. Fully agree. If I had a magic wand wish list an SWR route would be set in the 80s/90s/00s and would be awash with Mk1 slam door EMUs but as much as Matt loves them I think commercially thinking it’s easier to profit from already available assets, and I do respect the happy medium. Also, it seems to be far easier to have a modern day EMU function with doors and systems than an older slam door unit with multiple slamming doors passengers disembarking and embarking etc, a 12 car 4VEP operating at peak is vastly harder to replicate authentically than a 2 car 101 for example. All that being said, if DGT decide to open up the Waterloo throat out to somewhere like Woking etc using available repainted assets, with a new build 455 which ideally would be a 455/8 with flexibility for livery designer application into Southern to support scenario planner on the BML or a timetable layer; they get my vote all day long
What are our chances of something being set early 2000s with potential for a 3p to take on a slam door EMU? I don't think this is a goer, but imagine DTG decide to please everyone and set a route around the time of changeover from slam door to modern trains. I think the slam doors were directly replaced by what you still see now running, meaning those who want the feeling of modern can have it and those who want retro can have that.
Would absolutely love a route that gives a choice of a slam-door or a Desiro. Absolutely top of my list and is probably far too over-the-top would be Waterloo to Southampton and Alton. Set in 2005 with a mix of 423s, 444s, 450s and 455s. Maybe have the Class 423s as an additional DLC with a transition timetable. 2nd choice would be the least imaginative but still a very enjoyable drive in TSC; Waterloo to Portsmouth Harbour. 2005 same traction mix as above. Less freighty I would have thought (I live north of "The River" what would I know about "The Southern"?). Either route set before SWR took over would be fine though. Mix of 444,450,455 and 707 is still very appealing to me. Developers: You do great work but please don't bother with the 458. It's so ugly that it makes bats crash.
And don’t forget we have the 158 which can be repainted to sort of guise as the 159, better to keep any west of England workings strictly 158 though until such a time as a 159 may be developed
SWT's 450s were all blue. The idea was red for metro, white for long distance, and blue for in between. A nice system, if you're reading, GBR...
Yes, would be happy with a 158 substitution, I'd totally forgotten about the diesel services. I wonder if the decision to extend the North London Line to Richmond was a result of the plan to have another route through Wimbledon with route hopping. We'll never know, idle thoughts that somehow ended in written form. I need a coffee.
The more I think about it, the ideal SWT route for TSW (hey that’s an acronym) in its current state would be a Hampshire network, namely: Portsmouth (and Havant) to Southampton Fareham to Eastleigh Eastleigh to Southampton and Brockenhurst Let’s say the 450 and 159 are included as base, and the 444 as deluxe, you get: SWT: Portsmouth to Southampton (450) Havant to Portsmouth (444/450) Eastleigh to Portsmouth (444/450) Eastleigh to Southampton (159) Eastleigh to Brockenhurst (444/450) Southampton Airport to Brockenhurst (444) Southern: Havant to Southampton (377) Portsmouth to Havant (313/377) Crosscountry: Southampton Airport to Brockenhurst (Voyager) GWR: Southampton to Portsmouth (158/166) Southampton to Havant (158/166) Plus freightliner services. With Waterloo probably not an option, and with it the south western suburban network, this would be a cool route.
I’m not generally a fan of BR blue specifically, but I agree on above posts I would love some slam door express action on Southern or South Western… not sure I cared for the Stagecoach or Sothern liveries applied to the slam door stock though! And I’m acutely aware for me this is hypocritical given my general bias is for modern and generally less interest in the BR blue side (specifically 80’s.. but crossover I think I’m down for), but I guess that changes maybe when something you grew up with personally comes into orbit…
Would be a fun route with a bit of express and stopping workings. I’m not sure why but I suspect we see a 455 before a 444. Given the fanfare over their demise this year, the 455 is surprisingly remarkably popular and one could argue was one of the last proper interesting trains with its traction motors compressors and cab environment
I'd prefer either an end-to-end mainline (London to Portsmouth), a decent chunk of a mainline (Southampton to London) or a network that includes an end-to-end service or two (Waterloo to Reading & a couple of branches). Less likely but also would be interesting are the SW end of the SWML (Eastleigh to Weymouth) or the full SW London metro network, including out to Woking. Sparse timetable for one and an impossibly complex route to build are why I think they're unlikely. The partial services around Portsmouth and Southampton is the worst of all situations. No opportunity to really get a good high-speed run, few end-to-end services which means no realistic driving turns and mostly sub-1 hour drives.
I think the Deluxe loco would have to be something different enough to the main stock. But I suppose 2 different Vectrons came as deluxe locos.
I know again most of this thread is now pure speculation and a bit of the suggestions thread thrown in too, but I am genuinely not surprised at how popular a SWML route seems. Let’s just hope IMO if DTG aren’t already working on a South Western division route, they soon will be having read the frenzy since the license being granted
Just wanted to come back to this, as there was a point about DTG making modern routes, the East Coastway remaster offered up modern timetables and a 2018 timetable involving the 313 extensively. So, I think we’ve moved past the stage of only the most up to date stuff being produced. The nostalgia customer is a powerful one with spending power after all
Yes, I'd like to think that DTG know how popular the route is, and that announcing that they have an SWT licence right before the TSW7 will result in mass speculation/hopes. (Before anyone says, yes, I will only have myself to blame if I feel disappointed if it isn't a SWT route. It'd still feel like a kick in the teeth though.)
I'd politely disagree here... The older timetables on East Coastway still use the same operator regardless of the time line. The South West Trains licencing I personally believe was most likely the easier option to obtain out of SWR & SWT at the time of development. I'll happily put my hands up if I turn out to be wrong but I don't think it will be a South Western route we receive this year. SWT & SWR are now unified brands both owned by the DfT, but SWR has only been under government control for a year and the extension of the North London Line has been a while so it could have been done very early on in development. You've also got to take into account the blurring and performance issues on console, and I'd imagine that would steer DTG well away from a Waterloo based route for the time being as it's to complex and intensive regardless of the era. I'll happily admit if I'm wrong on the 25th August, but at this present time I don't think there is much in the SWT theory myself. Although the mention of Clapham Junction makes me think a BML remaster slip could have happened.
London to Portsmouth or Southampton would be amazing would love Windsor/ Reading too… bit of a mix of stoppers, semi-fast, fast, but mainline first would be my preference
If not for launch, it’s gotta be coming… no point obtaining the license and then sitting on it … Definitely feels like a region Johannes would be interested in, given Thameside branches orientation and Richmond etc..
DTG often say how much work is required for licencing and stuff, and I hope they didn't go through all that trouble just for one AI train for one station, when a full route with the SWT licence would be hugely popular.
While this would again starve us Easterners of content, I'd be quite happy if this turned out to be South West's year with a number of developers pooling resources and giving us 4-5 different DLCs for the same area like has happened with the WCML. DTG- London to Southampton/Alton. Firefly/ATS/AN Other - Southampton to Weymouth. Just Trains - Basingstoke to Exeter St. Davids (Backdated to 1991 with Class 50 hauled sets and Class 159s sharing the services) AABS - Waterloo to Reading. Incredible Trains - Lymington Harbour/Southampton to Portsmouth Harbour. Between them we get Classes 159, 450 and 707 fashioned from existing stock. New stock Class 444, Class 455 and Class 50. Route Hopping at Exeter St.Davids to GWR Devon mainline, Portsmouth Harbour to IoW Line, GWR at Reading, Mildmay Line at Richmond, Brighton Mainline at Clapham Junction, Bakerloo Line at Waterloo.
it could be amazing!! don’t see the dev portfolio orienting themselves around a specific region, but would love it Intrigued by Adam’s statement around where their focus the next 158… presumably either Northern , or an adapted 159 for SWR region love the speculation until we grounded
almost certainly… but dare to dream they’ve given us a month to wildly speculate and build our hopes and dreams up… worst case, they get a directional idea of what might be a good seller!
