Tadami Line Screenshots

I'm with you. I'm happy to save a few bucks this month and buy it when it's ready. If it doesn't release until TSW7...oh well i guess?

I feel like I'm doing TSW forum wrong by not being outraged by this lol!

 

the problem isn't the delay itself, but rather the fact that, with TSW7 just around the corner, they might want to hold off the release for TSW7
that would mean waiting for the entire TSW7 release process to rollout, and only then, once the TSW7 DLC release cycle began, would a release date be set for tadami line
in other words, we’re talking about another four or five months (if not longer)
and I won't even get into why on earth DTG set and announced a release date and a preview stream without first making sure everything was actually ready to be released

 

Birmingham to Crewe was released not long after TSW6.

Would you rather it was released with an issue then? I'm certain you wouldn't be on here castigating DTG about how useless they were or how desperate for money they were, as that's never happened on the forum has it?

We probably won't know why it was so last minute and frankly I don't care, I am glad they have postponed it.

It just seems another "what can I get angry about today" episode. It's a train driving game not EastEnders.

 

Let see if I get this right about community predictable reactions:

DTG announces a future DLC without a specific release date - there are complaints about how long it is on the “coming soon” position and lack of updates, speculations of being “vapor-ware”

DTG does not announce a DLC until just before a release date - speculation to why it wasn’t announced before, it can’t be a quality route because it hasn’t been worked on long and must have been rushed just to meet a release slot.

DTG releases a route near the announced release date and there are real or perceived problems - complaints it shouldn’t have been release in such a state, should have been delayed - lack of beta testing and QC is lamented by many, numerous people wearing their announcements to refund as badges of honor…

DTG announce a release date, then at the last minute delays release because of discovery of performance or some other problems - gnashing of teeth wringing of hands on how this should have never happened, a release date should have never been announced until the route had been test on every possible permutation of hardware on which it should run without any problems, now it has been delayed, this will hurt future sales…

DTG announces a DLC, release date is set and met, only minor performance problems noted - not sure of how the community would react since there are not enough data points on this one…

but to stay on topic, I prefer a delayed release if a last minute problem was discovered, regardless if that fault should have been found earlier.

 

Pretty much sums it up.

You forgot about the drama series on YouTube about it though.

 

yea, I usually avoid YouTube “reviews” since I haven’t really found a channel that doesn’t seem to have an agenda… to be fair, usually watch documentaries on real railroads, particularly Distant signals by Danny Harmon or the Grab-bags put out by the Virtual Railfan Channel

 

I think it's perfectly reasonable to be upset over a last minute delay. I don't think anyone is gonna be jumping for joy because of it. The issue I have is not that it was delayed but that it was delayed at such short notice 2 hours before the preview stream and just minutes before the announcement was an Instagram post saying "3 days before release"

I have also heard these issues were reported before the release date was given so it's not the fault of the beta team.

From DTG Candace: "The route was delayed due to performance concerns, especially on console". This route has been in development for a very long time so I find it very concerning that the performance is still a concern all this time later.

I think it's the right decision to delay it of course, but in future a release date should not be given unless it's thoroughly tested and reviewed for all platforms.

 

Isn't upset a bit over the top though? Disappointed yes but upset?

The fact is that they have delayed it which going by previous experiences on there forums should be lauded, but instead it's turning into the normal pitchforks at dawn scenario, which happens everytime something is released with an issue. So DTG were never going to win anyway.

 

You can't expect most people to be happy with a delay after a release date is given, the same happened with Stamford. A delay is not a good thing, it means something has gone wrong and doesn't fill people with confidence.

"They can't win either way" they could if they allow enough time for the testing process and only give a release date when it's ready and not find major performance issues mere days before release, something that has happened quite a few times with TSW

 

Well I would say a delay is better than releasing something with issues which has happened quite a few times.

And as I don't know how or why an issue was found at the time it was I am not going to make assumptions as to why and whether it is a bad thing or not.

 

So when do we think it’s going to release now ??. I’m going to wager on a Christmas release .

 

February 30th

 

I'm not happy with a delay, but I'd rather that than a bad release that might take months or years to patch (if ever).

You're right, though, it does mean something's gone wrong. Clearly DTG's project management process has had major problems for quite some time. This isn't the first huge miss by them, and probably won't be the last. I'm not sure if it's a management issue, budget cuts, or what, but the strong implication that nobody at DTG so much as looked at the Tadami DLC before yesterday morning is a huge red flag.

I realize 3rd-parties are independent entities, but DTG puts their name on every DLC they publish and ultimately the buck stops with them IMO.

 

Hopefully when it is ready

 

Oh give your head a wobble, I'm sure you're a Dovetail employee, always up their rear-end.

It's unacceptable to have a release date and then to remove it shortly before release. I'm personally not interested in the DLC myself, but this is now getting ridiculously out of hand. The competence of providing a successful release is almost untenable and yet you find another excuse to allow criticism to feel unjust by the paying customer.

You always do this and I'm calling you out, cos I'm sick and tired of the DTG gravy train consistently being defended for the unprofessional approach that is seemingly becoming the norm.

So, to summarise, all DLC SHOULD be properly inspected and dissected, prior to any release date being issued. It really is lacklustre how the company is proceeding to move going forward, as if they are not already tarnishing their own brand with other varied issues.

 

The above is really not needed -

Agreed whole heartedly - but when issues are found after the date is announced - what should the company do - release it anyway?

 

Well I suggest you read all my posts then as I'm often critical when I feel a need to be. Still if getting angry makes you feel better then that's for you to reconcile with. You can "call me out" all you want, frankly I suggest you grow up.

What was the norm was them releasing DLC with issues, now they are putting off releases, they are still getting complaints, this isn't the first time.

As for being a DTG fan, I have only bought three DLC since TSW6 released, all third party releases. Unlike some on here who are constantly complaining, then buying the latest DLC and then complaining again.

 

and that is why it must be properly reviewed and inspected BEFORE a release date is set and announced
cmon... it’s not difficult to understand the problem we’re all pointing out

 

I love how when the 90 was released everyone was asking why they let it slip through.

Now they found something and decide not to release just like this community demanded they do in these situations and you get all mad at them and assume the worst.

Funny seeing as they probably pulled it because of what the community said about the class 90.

What a joke these forums are.

 

Did you miss that I said in a perfect world, any problem should be discovered before a release date is set… but in an imperfect world where a problem is discovered before the announced date - what do you want the company to do….release it anyway or postpone the release?

That is the situation with this DLC … no amount of should have, could have changes the present situation. The Lesson Learned / After Action / Correct action report should influence future releases, but we have what we have this particular DLC.

 

A little bit suspicious that Tadami’s been held back again, there must be some serious quality issues. Best it go back in the oven for now.

 

If it is down to performance on console then it’s a concern. Historically console performance issues have largely been on busy timetables using a wide variety of locos, ie Crewe - Preston. As I understand it, this is 1 train with a very quiet timetable.

 

That is the case, yeah. But it could be an issue with the vegetation as well. From the screenshots it looks like UW used some new vegetation assets. It could be that these assets are not optimized for console. Or maybe the new passenger set? Could be anything. But as long as these issues exist, this route should absolutely not release.

 

Or as I mused they went a bit berserk with the LiDAR DEM right out into the distance though that is a bit of speculation not knowing what the performance difference would be using that rather standard DEM for the distant terrain. That could be almost impossible to undo.

 

Not familiar with the design of the game editor or game engine (or how UE4 handles it), but from my own work with DEMs I'd guess it'd be yes "almost impossible" to replace the DEM it started with with a different one. In a reasonable amount of time anyway. Maybe it can automatically merge different terrain though, for all I know.

Again, I don't know how UE4 handle heightmaps or how the game editor is designed. For an engine and editor designed with terrain in mind, the LOD and tessellation should be tunable and even smart updating of hand-placed assets could be possible. All guesses on my part as to what's at play here, as this the first I've heard of "LiDAR DEM" vs. "standard DEM" in this game.

A DEM is just an array of elevation datapoints at a uniform distance (by some measure) from each other on the x/y axis, along with some information about the map projection and location on earth. Basically once you deal with the projection (but assume the earth is flat in game most likely) you end up with a possibly very large PNG file ("heightmap"). The number of data points (elevation data) is uniform like any other bitmap, so if there is some reduction of detail to be done, it's with the game engine's tessellation and LOD.

So say you have a DEM (well, a heightmap) that is 1024x1024 (that'd be quite small) for 10 square miles, to use a different higher resolution heightmap that is 4096x4096 for one square mile just for the close in terrain, would raise a lot of issues, and to my mind that is just don't how it would be done. You'd use the same highest resolution heightmap and tune the LOD and tessellation to your needs and just not worry about the fact that you have a texture that is possibly higher resolution than you need (wasting memory).

My experience with this is at this point pretty far in the past though so maybe I am not up on how things are done now.

 

LiDAR doesn't affect performance by itself any more than making a texture at 100MP rather than 10MP if it is only going to be 1MP in game at the end anyway. It needs someone to choose to use it at an unsuitable resolution for it to be an issue. Red herring.

 

I'm not angry, upset or even particularly disappointed by the delay - there's plenty else to play.

What I am is astonished that major performance issues are only identified a couple of days before launch. I'm hoping that this is simply down to the dev not being able to test their route on consoles and thus being unaware of the issue, but if that's true then it beggars belief that console testing is still treated as an afterthought and only done literally in the hours prior to launch. Given the importance of consoles to overall TSW revenues this seems almost incomprehensible to me.

 

I did say it was just a thought…


Perhaps for once, DTG should be honest and come out up front exactly what the problem is.

 

I wish this was how the passengers rather looked like on the TSW Tadami line, but from the screenshots earlier shown in articles/video they don't look alike...

(Anyway, that's what's coming to Running Train in August, but since that thread is gone, I can't post it there.)

 

Gameplay for tadami has been released by TSS.

so, feel free to take a look.


the console performance is what caused tadami to be delayed, not nesseserily PC. And the person who recorded the gameplay has beefy specs, so it runs fine.

This person's specs are;

AMD Ryzen 9 5900x
RTX 3080 12GB
64GB RAM

 

hmm it seems good to me
it has a niddertalbahn and liberec: stara-paká vibe

 

How about simply announcing "update X ...", or "New route Y is available from today" (without any prior warnings at all). Advance warnings usually generate tons of wild speculation, and even advance criticism. It will certainly reduce the numerous irrelevant posts that often appear in this form. (Yes: I have my steel helmet and bullet proof vest on and am ready to be attacked for this post!)

 

I think in the entertainment industry the launch day number of sales / revenue has some bigger meaning, so some prior announcement when something is launching is somewhat much important there, to build hype, make people mark the date and get it as soon as possible (otherwise people even may not notice something they were waiting for already released). As for updates I don't see announcements prior to them being pushed, but rather threads appearing asking what was in the update they received, because there hasn't been yet an announcement related to the update yet published.

 

Watched the Hectojojo video clip, my hot takes…

1. Wondering where the performance issues are, presumably further along the route even given running on a fairly high end PC. Which is why we need more information from DTG as to exactly what they discovered that resulted in the route being pulled.

2. The scenery and assets definitely look a bit basic and not up to the standard of the Czech route or Medway Valley. Everything looks squeaky clean, even Japan accumulates a bit of grime and weathering on buildings and surfaces. The train textures also very flat, like something from early MSTS days lacking depth. Maybe that was a requirement of the limited JR licence but externally look more like a plastic toy.

3. Sounds, as expected not that great though with the caveat I’ve never travelled on a real Kiha 140. There also seemed to be no audible difference with sounds inside the train or out.

4. Less experienced players are going to struggle with that complex start up procedure, three different places to insert the master key. Maybe it will be mostly set up taking over a timetable run. The demonstrator also appeared to be having issues with brakes and power, very easy to over brake and some element of traction lock.

5. You would have thought they could find a real (English speaking) Japanese person to do the Intro and Tutorial voice overs for more authenticity. Bearing in mind they must have been done in the UK I’m sure a job or talent agency could have supplied someone for a couple of days.

6. Maybe it was just the fact it was the training run, but I didn’t see any arrival or departure times for the station calls which is certainly a yellow flag. If they are missing from the timetable then that needs to be addressed along with the other issues, before release.

In conclusion, based on this evidence even if the performance etc. issues can be solved I don’t think this is worth a £30 price tag. £18 or at the outside £20, perhaps.

 

another thing thats been at the back of my mind...

Are DTG even aware of this? Are they allowing gameplay of this to be shown?

 

It was one of their ambassadors that originally published it and it's since been taken down. I assume somehow they missed that the release was cancelled, though given the fuss that had been made, that's hard to believe. So I assume DTG are aware.

Unfortunately for them others had already downloaded it. I found it as my YouTube app had automatically downloaded it to watch offline.

 

Once it’s out there, precious little they can do about it. Other than hang, draw and quarter those initially responsible!

 

Welp...I was looking forward to this route for a long time. Watched the leaked footage and I can safely say my interest is non-existent now. While I have been enjoying Running Train quite a bit, I was still cautiously optimistic for the Tadami route as it would offer a different pace and feel compared to what RT offers.

However, to my eye it just looks bad. It looks generic. I didn't watch that footage and think "Wow, I'm in Japan! Cool!" And maybe I just don't have my "TSW glasses" on since I haven't been playing much lately, but I'm not impressed with the foliage or anything about the scenery. Everything almost looks cartoon-like overall.

I can't put my finger on it. I have been impressed with other new country additions in the past, so I don't think it's just a "this is TSW" issue. Ah well, money saved is never a bad thing.

 

Haven’t seen the gameplay video yet but maybe they’ve done a Rivet Games and showed off the wrong build xD.

 

It looked like it was running in a predictably TSW way, but fine is a stretch.

 

Interesting statement coming from someone who is constantly posting that they hate simple control EMU's.

 

Do you struggle with simple comprehension? I didn’t say that I would struggle with them, nor that it was a bad thing. Just that some might find the procedure complex particularly if there are no prompts when starting a timetable run.

Seems you have to nit pick everything I post at the moment, maybe try winding your neck in a bit?

 

This seems a bit unnecessary, especially as we're trying to show DTG we can self-moderate without needless bickering.

 

Anyway I just watched that gameplay video. I can see what others mean by the scenery looking a bit off compared to the screenshots we have been getting for this route. Something isn’t quite right I feel. :/

 

As ever, sumptuous screen shots are the easy bit.
As ever, several people fall for them

 

Oh yes.

 

Wow ego much? You not the only one I've replied too.

 

I know it shouldn’t come to this, but:



Try it for a week, it will transform your experience.

 

We saw really good screenshots of Niddertalbahn before it released and the route ended up looking exactly like the screenshots before release. You would expect Tadami Line to be the same with the amount of time that’s been put into the route. It’s been a few years. The scenery looked very average in that gameplay video. Surely it’s an earlier build that was shown off. Even the official trailer for the route looked better. Something is off. Could be another Fife Circle oopsie again.