What If Tsw *insert Number* Will Come Without New Routes?

Imagine the impossible. DTG spends all its time on optimizaion, new features and fixing (let's be realistic) some bugs. There's simply no time left for new routes. But DTG promises remasters of the most popular routes throughout the year. And all the new releases will be from third parties only.
Your opinion - are you interested in a "new" game without new routes?

This is a hypothetical conversation

 

So long as it's a free update, I don't care. I have plenty to play and would be fine staying with TSW 6 if not.

However if there is no route bundle, then they would have to charge for the core or there is no revenue coming in. I'm not prepared to pay for new features that invariably don't work properly. Besides, that, there wouldn't be any routes that use the them anyway.

 

It's interesting to see people who demand bug fixes instead of release new routes, unanimously vote against a version without new routes.

 

What would the point be then? Releasing a new game with no actual new content is pretty dumb. (Mind you it works for EA sports games). "Bug fixes" isn't exactly a marketable feature, especially to new players, and us existing players shouldn't have to download a whole new game (even if there is a free version) just for bug fixes on content we already have

 

I don't think bugfixes should be implemented in a new game version. I already paid for the game or dlc and that should ve available as an update.
As for features... These have -in my opinion- been kinda lackluster. The faults and speedlimits are a noce idea, but i find it poorly implemented. Same goes for conductor mode.
And another thing is features are only available on new routes... So that's not gonna go great.
The remasters i really liked, but to lock them behind a new game version is not very nice.

 

If the next TSW is just this TSW with the added ability to hide the route hopping markers and nothing else, I’ll be very happy.

 

I don't think it makes sense to have a new version without new routes, unless they were porting existing routes over to UE5 or something like that.

Why introduce a new version just for bugfixes?

 

That's normal because if it's a new TSW, so a new game, which wouldn't make any sense of :
- Releasing a new game for this? Might as well just release an update.
- Yes, there will be a free version like other TSW but temporary, so those who miss out will be forced to buy a paid update.... That makes no sense
- Download again all our content for an "update game" ... It's a strange concept

This isn't a sports game; everyone expects not only bug fixes but also new routes, It's just logic.

 

Call it "New Era" with less annoying bugs, optimization, new features for most routes and some good old remasters.

 

The name isn't the main problem; you can call it whatever you want.

The problem is about releasing a new paid TSW version for updates, even though they are important and good without new routes.

 

I think there have been so many speculative leaks to make this even remotely possible. The problem is, DTG will hype it up and distract you with a feature or two that they will convince you we asked for to distract from the abysmal state of this game. It’s a game and sadly too buggy and poor to be considered a simulation by any form of the imagination. The hype will get lots of people excited and hopeful for a better iteration that will never arrive and then shortly after release the realisation that we’ve all been duped will happen within minutes, hours and days that follow the release. That will be followed with false promises of bug fixes and patches. Recycle and repeat every September.

 

So everyone working at DTG is supposed to just do voluntary unpaid work?
I think some here forget DTG is a company.
Would also want to point out now that Gen 8 isnt generating profit any longer, you all should expect the free version to be discontinued after now 2 TSW iterations.

 

It’s hardly voluntary when you’re expecting people to invest in DLC that runs on that crumbling, broken platform base game is it?

 

That's a nice hypothetical thought to entertain, but pretty far from reality

 

You're right. This is a hypothetical conversation.
I'm interested in people's opinions, especially those who ask to stop creating new content until the major bugs are fixed. Are you prepared to live a year without new routes?

 

Not a chance. I'm constantly waiting for new stuff to come out. I already have my credit card at the ready for Thursday LOL

 

If you dislike TSW this much then maybe just leave this part of the forum instead of trying to ruin it for everyone here.
And dont come at me with the "but if they fix ... and do ... i would play it again..." excuse. There is a difference between hate and criticism and you showed on which side you stand.

 

Sorry i missunderstood the point of the thread tbh so just ignore my first post.

Personally i wouldnt mind DTG to not release anything for a year if they would do the said points instead.
Only problem is that Uk is the only country to have enough 3rd parties to release enough content to satisfy the players.
So as long as this isnt the case for germany or US im tending to vote against the concept.

 

That's basically what the free starter versions they usually do for a period after a new release are. And yeah, I used that plus outgoing version content until I figured out if the bundled routes in the paid versions were worth bothering with.

 

Doesn't need to be all or nothing. Most people will prefer 3 routes that work fine than 6 with major bugs.

 

New routes does not exclude bug fixing right? Who is telling me that DTG does not fix bugs when they release a new version in the yearly circle. So this whole thread is not very helpful in my opinion...

 

If they have a fixed number of people working it is obvious that a person that is fixing a bug can't be creating new content at the same exact time.

Many years the community sentiment was that they were ending the bug fixing too soon to work on new projects. In my opinion they are doing somewhat better lately, but some important issues still remain.

 

Forums are for expressing opinions which I have done, last time I checked you weren’t a mod, nor do you own this forum or topic so I will continue to express my opinion. As a consumer who has invested significantly financially in DLC I am entitled to criticise. If you don’t like hearing opinions that don’t conform with yours perhaps you shouldn’t start discussions!

 

I don't think so. The free starter pack still makes them money as the gateway to purchasing later DLC releases. Plus it ends the discussion of being obligated to get the three base routes.

 

This is the biggest case of 2+2=5 I've seen for a while

 

Sorry, but this has been brought up many times already, with the argument that if DTG released fewer addons, the quality would improve and more bugs would be fixed. This theory is based on the idea that someone who fixes bugs wouldn’t be able to do anything else but that’s simply not how it works.
DTG is a studio with many different roles. Think of it like someone working in the accounts payable department not suddenly doing the work of someone in facility management. These are two completely different functions that don’t overlap.
It’s the same in a game studio: there are employees who handle quality control (bug fixing), and others who lay track and overhead wires, or develop assets.
The way you describe it would be extremely inefficient and would bring the whole operation to a halt.

 

You answered to my post, so what do you mean i started a discussion??
You didnt even write anything regarding my point but just a random rant about TSW.
Since this is going nowhere i suggest you and i stop now for the sake of this thread, ok?

 

I honestly don't understand what you are trying to tell me.

First you are saying that "This theory is based on the idea that someone who fixes bugs wouldn’t be able to do anything else but that’s simply not how it works.". Then, a few lines later, you say "there are employees who handle quality control (bug fixing), and others who lay track and overhead wires, or develop assets." as if each person had a fixed function and they do not overlap.

So which one is it? The first or the last?

AFAIK at DTG everyone can be assigned to do anything in their area of expertise (ie: they are not gonna assign an artist to fix the code for the dispatcher). Just reading some of the feedback threads you can see that devs that are working on new stuff sometimes are assigned to fixing previous bugs.

There is a balance between how much new stuff is being developed by DTG and how much development time can be assigned to fixing previous bugs. This doesn't mean that if DTG creates 0 new content they will be able to fix 100% of the bugs, but there is some correlation.

 

In short, everyone has their own role, and it’s not the case that every employee can do bug fixing. There is a dedicated department for that, namely QA. A train that’s being developed goes through multiple stages, and the project is passed back and forth for checks throughout the process. Quality control is one of those stages and it comes later in the pipeline. So no, not every employee does bug fixing that would severely disrupt the workflow.

 

I don't know where you got that idea from. QA is responsible of finding the bugs, and sending them back to the dev team to be fixed. Devs fix the bugs, then send them back to QA to make sure they are actually fixed. QA does not fix things. Usually do not even know how. You do not need to know how to code, or be a 3D or sound artist etc ... to be in QA.

You keep saying that the devs that work on new DLCs do not fix previous content. I suggest you take a look at the feedback threads, and you will see that they do.

 

Yes, that’s exactly what I meant. I was simply explaining that when you submit a bug report, it’s not as if a developer immediately starts working on it. There are several steps in between before it lands on a desk by a developer. It has some checks for what is exactly the problem and in what time scope this realistic to fix.
On top of that, not every developer can or is allowed to do bug fixing. So QA is leading they are responsible what type of desk that will take care of it. It was more a wider pov how the process is going in the system

 

If it was free, yeah.

But paid for? Not a chance.

 

Sorry what do you mean exactly? And was that a response on my last point?

 

QA is not going to organize any develper's time. They will send it back to the team responsible and a producer or senior member will decide what needs to be done when depending on deadlines for all the projects they are responsible for. We are back at it is the same people.

 

That was what I was pointing to.

 

One major problem with the idea of a new version released without routes is that new versions always include new features, and you need new routes that include the features to show them off.

 

No, he was probably just responding to the original premise of this thread. Not to your post.

 

I suggest you take the time to read my post properly, this post discusses a bug fixing new TSW and I pointed out that hypothesis is both naive and completely unrealistic. A bug fixing TSW with no new DLC loses it’s marketing hype and doesn’t excite or capture consumer interest, especially for those that have never played TSW. The only reason we all update to the latest iteration is for the new routes, some which have been speculated about already in other posts.

 

Bug fixes and solving issues, should be part of the current game(s) and fixes shouldn't be sold as a new game. The games we have now, even shouldn't be released in the state they're in now. Blurry textures are going on now for at least almost 2 years, this should be fixed somehow in the current game and routes and we don't need a new number for fixes anyway.

If I look at SKA remaster, the way this one is done, did more harm then good to the route.

So TSW really need a change quality wise, fixes for all the issues, a new version number is not needed at all.

 

When was the last DTG add-on? Aren't we already in the reality where DTG have pulled back their own add-on making to the bare minimum? How's that going?

 

I was putting my opinion down about the original post. I didn't see your comment.

 

We've had some great third party releases lately, so maybe not that bad.

 

No problem!

 

Ok, we didn't get new routes form DTH but new routes from other developers...
So where's the difference?
It's also the same things because it's also 3 new routes, maybe with 3 new trains.
The only question is: is the quality standard the same?
DTG usually have a high standard for the annual game release, if the third party have the same quality, for me, it's the same product!

....but, what's happen to DTG in this case? Why they can't provide anything in their main release?

 

All the signs are they have scaled back most of their internal production. Rivet seem to be their go to developer for the UK, maybe Europe also with a bit of help from TSG. Not sure about the US but I highly doubt the route is being built in Chatham. We can’t even say for certain how much actual programming and support capacity they have in house just a plethora of marketing staff.

 

I have bought 41 separate DLCs including 31 routes and have paid for TSW2020, TSW2 and TSW4. They have taken nearly £500 of my money so they are not unpaid. Indeed I have spent MORE on this game than any other title.

I am totally aware DTG is a company which is why I have repeatedly paid them for their products that sometimes were not even fit for purpose. It is mugs like me that keep DTG afloat.

It is DTGs choice to discontinue the free starter pack for existing customers but it is my choice whether I will pay for basically the same game FOUR times over and guess what? I will not. I've already walked away from this game for two years in the past and will not hesitate from doing so again.

As a profit driven company, DTG should be aware that without satisfied customers willing to continue spending money they will go under rapidly.

 

From the various comms. about the previous US route DTG released, it sounded like Rivet was the biggest developer of the route along with other 2nd party developers such as Brandon. The ambassador Train Simulator Driver also mentioned a while ago that the DB 147 was developed largely by 2nd parties such as TSG (and there being overlap between them and DTG). With this information as well, I can't help but agree with you that it doesn't seem like DTG develops content for TSW anymore. Perhaps most of the developers were focusing on Sodor and Metro Rivals or maybe they've changed their priorities to publishing.

I don't necessarily think this is a bad thing as it looks like DTG has struggled to release the increased amount of 3rd party content that have been developed in the last two game cycles. I guess we will see in the Dovetail Direct what content lies in the TSW7 package and whether it is produced in-house or not.

 

I think you just answered your question =-)
"Other companies do it."

 

Well maybe, but at least with sports games you can say "well players move teams teams and the kits change"