New To Ts2020 (etc.) Shopping List In March Sale

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by synthetic.angel, Mar 9, 2020.

  1. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Hi Guys

    I am going to be getting up and running with TS2020, hopefully by the weekend, for the first time. I have been having a good look around the Steam website, and started to build a shopping list (see below). My questions to you are:

    - Have I missed anything that you think is a "must buy".....?
    - What would you recommend, given my initial list below...(I might have about another £65 to spend)?
    - Is there anything that I must get from elsewhere (not on Steam)... what.. and...where...?
    - Is there anything that I have missed that can be run on South London Network....?

    NB: I am not fussed about absolute quality (I always am with TSW, but I am prepared to tolerate a lot with TS2020, because my expectations are quite a bit lower). My PC is expected to easily cope with anything that TS2020 can throw at it, and I reckon I can deal with difficult drives and IT issues.

    Here's my initial list:

    - TS2019 (physical) incl. Frankfurt, Waterloo-Portsmouth and Denver/Rio Grande (£15)
    - TS2020 SWISS incl. Bernina, Gotthard, Norfolk, Nuremberg and Soton-Bournemouth (£21)
    - South London Network (£6.24) plus 415 (£2.39), 419 (£3.59), 455 (£3.59), and 378 (£3)
    - London-Brighton (£5.24) plus 205 (£5.99), GWX 73 (£3), 422 (£3), 319 (£3), A4 Pacifics (£4.49), LNER Black A3 (£1.24), 421 (£1.79), 442 (£3.59), 377 (£1.79)
    - Chatham ML Lon-Gill (£5.24) plus 465 (£1.49) and BR Blue Diesel Elecs Pack (£2.79)
    - Weardale (£6.24) plus BR Blue pack (£3.59) and 105 (£3.59)
    - Settle & Carlisle (£5.99) plus Specials (£1.99) and 50 (£2)
    - Woodhead (£3) plus 76/77 (£1.49)
    - WCML North (£4) plus 92 (£3) and 70 (£1.79)
    - ECML Newc-York (£1.79) plus Euro Loco Asset Pack (£3)
    - Horseshoe (£3.74) plus Aerotrain £4.19)
    - Doncaster Works (£1.19) <----wow... like WOW...! ;-)
    - 33 from 2012 (£1.79)

    So that's about £150 in total, with a further £65 of budget available.... Any ideas....? Is there anything non-UK that I absolutely must get.... (especially if it is good value....).....?

    If I put the question another way - what would you want to buy in the March sale (TS2020)... and why...?
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
  2. NEC Railfan

    NEC Railfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2020
    Messages:
    976
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Well, as an American. I usually buy US stuff, but I think the must have content (UK) are from Armstrong Powerhouse for locomotives, Just Trains, and SteamSoundsSupreme. RWEnhancer is also a good utility, boosting TS' graphics to almost TSW level.

    In the US, recommended routes are: Northeast Corridor: New York - New Haven. A good sample of Northeastern US railroading. Montana Hi-Line is recommended for the West.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  3. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2017
    Messages:
    894
    Likes Received:
    1,708
    DTG and Steam have regular sales through the year, the next one is likely to be Easter and after that there's usually a summer one, so don't think you've got to buy everything now.

    Some of the items you list are much newer than others, so expect to see some difference in visual effects. Woodhead, Settle & Carlisle and Horseshoe are somewhat earlier scenery technology. WCML North is even earlier, but very well done. They are all good routes to operate (WCML North being best in this respect) and have the advantage of being framerate easier, but I would suggest buying one and see if you like the style before buying a whole load of them.

    The one must get you haven't listed is Armstrong Powerhouse's weather enhancement pack.

    If you want the very pinnacle of UK route building get Wherry Lines, but even this is slightly surpassed by two German routes: Im Köblitzer Bergland and Konstanz-Villingen.
     
    Last edited: Mar 9, 2020
    • Helpful Helpful x 3
    • Like Like x 1
  4. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    5,565
    Likes Received:
    11,443
    Riviera in the 50's is my absolute favourite, it isn't perfect but it feels right and the loco's and stock included have very good sounds. With all the other western region DLC from various sources you can really recreate a busy summer Saturday in the 50's with plenty of variety. The biggest let down are probably the signals, the semaphores seem to be colour light signals masquerading as semaphore's and don't always work as they should!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. dani_alexa2003

    dani_alexa2003 New Member

    Joined:
    Feb 28, 2020
    Messages:
    12
    Likes Received:
    9
    Llevo jugando a tsw es una pasada hoy e iniciado el ts2020se ve todo borroso no se en comparación con tsw parece en la época de piedras los graficos
     
  6. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2018
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    349
    If it was me, the only one I would add as a must have is:
    Western Lines of Scotland
    The BR black 5 included with that route is very well done
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 14, 2018
    Messages:
    1,528
    Likes Received:
    975
    That's some shopping list.

    This is I think the oldest route you have listed and it does show but it's OK. If nothing else it forms the basis of an updated version which I admit I don't have but looks very good. Scratch the European and UK Loco's and Assets pack- it's actually included with ECML North! Both Euro/UK and the US Loco's and Assets are included with WCML North BTW.

    Second that- it's lovely with a similar feel to the Weardale and Teesdale which has been my favourite route since I started with TS. Not being a die hard kettles guy though I wouldn't have bought it without the Classes 20 and 27 Diesels.

    I'd add WCML Over Shap which I bought solely to drive the APT (Class 370 if you must) but proved to be varied and interesting. Not my usual thing but well worth having on its own merits and I do love the way the P-Train hurls the scenery at you.
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  8. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    5,565
    Likes Received:
    11,443
    Another route I would recommend if you like the steam period, is the wonderful Wycombe route from Steam Sounds Supreme. Plenty of branch lines and now it is extended to Warwick there is a good stretch of mainline running. Plenty of scope for goods traffic too.

    WCML over Shap is another favourite, BR blue electrics and Pendolino's are equally at home.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  9. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Thanks for this - the Shap route has now been added to the list, along with some more WCML (North) rolling stock (56, 101 and 87)....! ;-)

    My approach is to pretty much grab all of the 750V network stuff, and hope that the rolling stock (now including the 402) is mostly inter-changeable between SoLonNet, Lon-Brighton and Chatham ML (London end). The approaches to London Bridge, Victoria and Waterloo should always be densely populated with trains... (LOL - we will see what happens...). Plus a few essentials... and odds and ends for variety... especially if very reasonably priced...

    I have now also added the GWR route (although I have this on TSW, it is apparently £2.09.... and I will take the Gold HST, the 67 and the 47 for a further £2.20 in total...). And I am going for the Isle of Wight (good beginner playground, apparently) for £3....!

    The Western Lines of Scotland and the Riviera (Exeter) packs nearly made the cut... I suspect that they might make it into a second wave.... especially for the Class 20. I am also keeping my eye on the Koblitzer Bergen route - I might even buy this one at full price, because there might be some interesting innovation in there.

    Non-UK stuff (on sale) that I will get now includes:

    - North Jersey Coast Line (£3.74)
    - Wutachtalbahn (£5.24)

    If I get into TS2020 as much as I think that I might... (scary thought...), then I might one day have a go at building out The Bricklayers Arms Branch (1970s...and maybe 1880s...) ..... as I think that I have all of the drawings for the yards (c. 1970s).... somewhere.... This is why I picked out Doncaster works at £1.24 as a stunning purchase in my post above... just a bit of fun... for £1.19

    Technical stuff/questions/concerns:

    I just hope that all of this will work on a single 64 bit installation of TS2019/20. It looks like my PC is arriving today, so I am also hoping that I can install TS2020 from Steam, and then later put the TS2019 routes on via the disc (which is still stuck in snail mail).
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  10. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,420
    Likes Received:
    2,674
    I would not bother with the Wutachtalbahn I found the route to be a bit slow and boring and with is being single track and a max speed of 60kph/37mph it's a stagger.

    - ECML Newc-York (£1.79) plus Euro Loco Asset Pack (£3)
    I would not bother with this route - it is very old but the Euro Loco and Asset Pack is a must - Get the US version at the same time.

    You keep adding the Plus but you don't need the extra stock to play the default scenarios and you don't need the route to use the stock.
    I have the Class 92 that has scenarios for WCML but I also run it on the Chatham Mainline, ECML - London to Peterborough and others.

    Also worth looking at stock
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/222586/Train_Simulator_BR_Class_87_Loco_AddOn/ (£1.99)
    https://store.steampowered.com/app/208379/Train_Simulator_Class_86_Loco_AddOn/ (£3.19)

    Peter
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 2
  11. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2017
    Messages:
    894
    Likes Received:
    1,708
    This isn't the right forum to come and praise TSW at the expense of TS2020, and I don't agree that its graphics are out of the stone age. Lighting and cloud effects can be better in TS2020 as well as middle and distant scenery. TSW doesn't have cab sway, long routes, steam engines, the ability to make user generated content or a vast choice of rolling stock.

    What are your suggestions for the DLC synthetic.angel should add to his list?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
    • Like Like x 3
  12. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    So - new PC has arrived, and set up in ten minutes. New Steam account took another five minutes. An hour later and I have spent £100 already on the SoLon, Brighton and Gillingham routes, plus all of their native rolling stock (well, the stuff on sale...). I now have about 50 (fifty) types of rolling stock (motive power...) out of the box. I have done a couple of hours running, and yes.. the graphics on the content I have seen so far (including DTG's 2020 releases) falls well below TSW. But strangely enough - TS2020 already seems more "playable" - it has depth - it has a far superior "game/career system" to TSW - which came as a surprise.... This is very very replayable, whereas TSW can become a bit of a snooze-fest at times. The challenge will be to play from the couch - I can't quite make everything out, even on a 55" TV...

    But I do miss being able to swish your head around - there doesn't seem to be any internal 3D models for the train cabs... Maybe I am wrong about this.., but I can't figure out how to look around smoothly... if you can...? Maybe it will be better when the XBox controller arrives.

    Anyway - I also bought a basic copy of TSW for PC (all of my stuff is PlayStation until now), which is quite pleasant (because it now has CSX:HH, and you can mouse-zoom at the controls). TS2020 and TSW are clearly very different beasts... I think that I will be investing in both of them from now on. And TS2020 will get another £100 thrown at it tomorrow...

    Quick Q - I think I have somehow been given a 32 bit version of TS2020 (or at least, that's what it reported as). I thought TS2020 was meant to be 64 bit...? I must do some research on this.

    BTW - You have a screenshot of a CSX loco, currently splashing on TS2020 - but the location says "Corris", which is slightly amusing... I have seen some of these US locos in real life, and I have seen a few narrow gauge railways... Good old DTG.... Made me laugh anyway... ;-)
     
  13. NEC Railfan

    NEC Railfan Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jan 29, 2020
    Messages:
    976
    Likes Received:
    1,025
    Yes, TS runs in both 32-bit and 64-bit. 64-bit is more stable for driving, but can easily corrupt routes in the build editor (something that TSW STILL doesn't have). 32-bit is better for route-building.

    Anyways, in regards to your quick question: Click play in the steam menu.
    Screenshot (460).png
    A tab will pop-up asking if you want to use 32-bit or the 64-bit edition. Screenshot (461).png


    P.S. About the AC6000CW on the Corris, I've seen some pretty big-looking diesels on tiny track before LOL.
    [​IMG]
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  14. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Thanks again for all of your help - and I have pencilled in the 86 to add to my list. I looked again at Wutachtalbahn - and it has had some really poor reviews... I reckon it must be a marmite route (zero stars or five stars...). But I am quite interested in sim world building, and apparently this route has some got fairly decent asset design, which can be best appreciated at slow speeds...maybe.... so maybe I will pay £5 for a punt with it.... with German steam... but I might take a quick look elsewhere first before I actually hit the buy button...

    As soon as I finished my first scenario on SoLon, I immediately tried a Jaffa-cake liveried 419 slam door with a couple of fuel tank wagons, on the Nuremberg route... obviously... ;-) (I actually did do that... LOL... at least the 419 had a fully charged battery....). More seriously, I can see the power now, from the flexibility, in TS2020. Particularly useful because I got a couple of Swiss routes, which could conceivably be visited by all sorts - and anyway - if find that the physics are well-modelled on any particular loco/consist, then it would be fun to try it out on a range of routes.
     
  15. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Thanks - much appreciated - 64 bit version now in-train.

    Now I have to figure out how to get the TS2019 content that I have coming on a disc onto my new PC that doesn't have a DVD player.... LOL. I think I might have to install the whole lot onto my laptop (which does have a DVD drawer) and hope that Steam will let the 2019 stuff cross over as DLC onto my tower... I think it will work, but I am new to Steam, so we'll see. Worst case scenario, is that I have lost about £15..
     
  16. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    5,567
    Likes Received:
    11,831
    If that disk is brand new, it should have a steam code located inside the disk case for you to input into Steam and download the content digitally. I know I did a similar thing with a physical version of TS2013 and TS2015.

    89435977_2575144489474694_3213118330386776064_n.jpg
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  17. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,420
    Likes Received:
    2,674
    Because Electric trains get the power from the track properties you can run any electric on any electrified routes
    Screenshot_GEML London Ipswich_51.61327-0.30976_12-04-06.jpg
    421 on GEML
    Screenshot_ECML London - Peterborough_52.57411--0.24976_14-59-19.jpg
    442 on ECML L-P

    Screenshot_Hamburg to Hanover_53.31732-10.29170_08-27-59.jpg Class 92 on Hamburg to Hannover
     
    • Like Like x 1
  18. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Oooooh....! *crosses fingers*

    (NB: That is such a ridiculous waste of plastic.... although it isn't as bad as something that I saw a few years ago - a single orange, vacuum packed in a very tough plastic.... so that it could hang on a display rail.... which was doubly annoying to see because oranges come with their own natural outer packaging)
     
  19. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    FULL DISCLOSURE: I have come to TS2020 via TSW.... and from TSW.... on PS4. *ducks behind couch*

    But I must say....

    TS2020 is really good. Like really very good. Especially for value (when buying stuff in a sale at 70% off), compared to TSW. And now that I have found the RMB, I can now look around the cab and do the zoomin' in/out thing. And my PSVR processor actually sends audio to my PSVR headset through the HDMI (and I am hoping to get it to do the same through DVI, so that I can get my HDMI socket back for my TV.). And the XBox controller sort of works, most of the time (so far)... And it vibrates over junctions... (doesn't do this on PS4 for TSW....).

    And I knew that I'd really like South London Network*** - it actually brings back memories of kissing various people goodbye at various stations... I think that I have been to a party, pub, or pie-shop at nearly every station on that route... (okay, not so many pie-shops...). For me, this is a genius route - especially all the fly-over gradients all over the place... proper hard work to drive. Now I understand why in real life I got stuck on a 455 that couldn't climb one of these gradients on a very snowy and iced up day... And the sounds of the EMUs are fantastic - except maybe for the LOL 378/1 when off power/brakes... but I am quite relaxed about this, because it only cost me two or three quid. I know the guys that designed the relatively new alignment from NX and NX Gate to Surrey Quays - and it is smooth, but that track-work is not completely silent.... it's actually really very loud down there in those tight and twisty narrow cuttings.... even in an air-tight cab, with decent suspension, re-profiled wheel-sets, and a radio on.... ;-)

    Anyway - I am starting to think that TS2020 might actually be better than TSW... it is certainly better in a lot of different ways (so far). Of course, if you stand two feet in front of a 4K TV, you can notice the difference in graphics... But if you are on the couch, immersed in a PSVR headset (or Occulus...), and actively trying to learn the operation of the train without aids, and the route* - then I think TS2020 is better (so far) - it's far more engaging and immersive. I haven't installed any enhancements yet, so for about £10, that upgrade looks worthwhile for TS2020.

    And now I have found the community designed scenarios... Oooh..... (totally horrendous management/search system, by the way - ... but still... oooh... nice.... and scenarios with a sense of humour... gotta love it...!).

    Right - time for me to stop boring you kind people to death, and to get on with buying the GWML, WCML, Woodhead, Weardale, Settle, Island Line, and some non-UK odds and ends.... I am tempted to go for NYC-Newhaven after all... and I should probably get a proper US heavy-freighter to test my PC. And I will do, if Soldier Summit (sounds promising...) and Norfolk (sounds less promising - I never did like Norwich much....)...... don't make my PC breathe slightly harder. I am also going to install TS2020 on my newish laptop, which has no graphics card (just 2Mb RAM reserved for a reasonably modern on-chip CPU GPU) - so that might be, um, "interesting".... (well... to me.. anyway....)

    --------
    NB***: Actually - I had fairly low expectations, but very high hopes for SoLon, so high potential for disappointment, but I am absolutely not disappointed at all.... it's totally fabulous, even though it's over five years old.... Crikey - I haven't even touched the newer stuff yet.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
  20. andy.malcolm

    andy.malcolm Active Member

    Joined:
    Mar 31, 2019
    Messages:
    314
    Likes Received:
    179
    It's nice to read some enthusiasm for TS2020. If you ever go on the trainsim reddit you'd think Dovetail had committed heinous crimes against the families of some of the people that post on there. I cam back to TS recently after several years away and it was like putting on a pair of comfy old slippers. Instantly spent about £30 picking up various interesting things I had missed over the years.
     
  21. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2018
    Messages:
    265
    Likes Received:
    349
    Gee, you like to waffle on :)
    Yes, TS is a mature product unlike TSW which is still in it's infancy. When I first tried Train Simulator I was very impressed but I was comparing it with Trainz which is just awful in comparison for driving trains (apparently Trainz is great for making layouts, though). Nowadays I play TSW more often just because it looks prettier and I can get out of my seat and wonder around the place.
     
    Last edited: Mar 11, 2020
  22. IronBladder

    IronBladder Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2017
    Messages:
    894
    Likes Received:
    1,708
    Infancy? I don't think so. How long has it been out now, nearly three years? If it was human it would be potty trained by now!

    I bought TSW, tried it, and sent it back for a refund. There's more to train simulation than graphics, and I'm fairly certain that IRL train crews aren't allowed to just wander about the track at will. I love TS2020, it's graphics may not be cutting edge, but they're not unrealistic. Its sounds can be excellent, cab sway and lurch add a lot to the immersive experience. The routes are long and give a feeling of going on a proper journey and the editor brings whole new set of activities and enjoyment. I spend hours improving the scenery in routes I have a personal connection with.

    I think DTG made a mistake with TSW and boxed it into the console market and it's become a narrow restricted product. My view is that if you like railways and like operating them in your own world you'll be much more satisfied with TS2020.
     
  23. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Me.... waffle...? LOL... sorry about that. Looking back, that was a mega-waffle... the sort that should only be consumed in the morning after a heavy night... with lots of fruity jam and cream. And strong coffee.

    Anyway - back to topic. I think TS2020 certainly stands up to scrutiny, as a simulator in its own right, as observed from about ten hours running so far. And that is the bit that interests me the most. And this is why I turned down the Scottish route, because the draw for me would be the Class 20 and Class 27 - but according to the reviews on Steam both of these locos are simulated very poorly. But I could be easily persuaded to go back and hit "buy" if there is good reason... (if the reviews are not now justified....?).

    So I stuck to my shopping list - but I have now added the fairly extensive looking North London Line (£5.24) plus the 59/2 (£2.99) and Edinburgh to Glasgow (£3.74) plus the F/L 66 (£1.49). And I snapped up the three ICE EMUs for about £3.40 for the set, and immediately ran them on NEC out of NYC... ;-)

    I think I now have enough TS2020 stuff to keep me going for quite a while... LOL... ;-)
     
  24. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Yes... and perhaps counter-intuitively, there's more to immersion, than just graphics. For example, the AI NPCs in TS2020 seem to behave more realistically, when viewed from a distance, than the guys in TSW, even if their visual design is from a different decade.

    Again, comparing to TSW.... TSW does now have what I would call "cab-roll" - and this is better than nothing, but it doesn't convince me as a physical model - there's no SHM or transient attenuation.... There is a spiked lurch at P&Xings on TSW... but it isn't done as well as TS2020. TSW's constant "sway" is actually initially distracting, but when it fades into the background it is a welcome addition. TSW doesn't appear to include directonal G-force, or modelling of the rise of the wheelset on the outer rail, leading to derail. But this is quite superbly done in TS2020. You can derail in TSW, but only if you are doing about 400% over-speed at a junction....

    TSW graphics get hampered by the design/optimisation that has been implemented for UE4 - including the poor handling of dynamic shadows, the often very poor tunnel design, the relative absence of atmospheric lighting, and very poor handling of sim boundaries (map tiles), including sight of the nether-world (especially bad in long straight tunnels), draw distance issues, and distracting LoD change-overs. The LoD on approaching trains can be quite inconsistent - and you can sometimes see them spawn in front of you.... The NYC Penn tunnels in TSW are a disaster-zone.

    The individual train models in TSW, are, of course, utterly beautiful inside and out, in terms of 3D models, texturing and reflections (with the odd exception.... like the 52). But that isn't enough for a sim.

    I am afraid that we part company here, and I'd respectfully disagree with you. Putting TSW into the console market was exactly the right thing to do, to generate cash, and stimulate the market***. But they have implemented TSW really badly, because the standards required are different on console (not necessarily better - just different).

    I find that the state of the TSW UI to be utterly shocking. But what surprised me the most was when I realised that TS2020 has actually got far more gaming elements in it than TSW (for example.... scoring for avoiding wheel-slip...).... a better simulation.... and a far more advanced UI....!! So, I think that TS2020 does the job it was intended to do - it could be improved further, but it is pretty darn good as it is. And it is TSW that needs to catch-up - in all of the areas that are actually important for a simulation... but also... for a game... ;-O

    -----------------
    NB***: So - I have spent about £250 on TSW over a year. And then after that, I invested a further £250 (this week) in TS2020 (for the first time). I will be putting in a great deal of time on both. But the money spend on TS2020 was probably the value investment. The South London Network alone will get more attention than all of the TSW routes that I own.... put together.
     
    Last edited: Mar 12, 2020
  25. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    1,679
    Just Trains do an excellent class 20 advanced, which combined with the Armstrong Powerhouse sound pack for it, make for an awesome chopper.

    RW Enhancer Pro, ReShade and Armstrong Powerhouse are definitely worth exploring.
     
  26. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,420
    Likes Received:
    2,674
    Like you I had Trainz - TRS2006 was my first go at a Train Sim and I was pleased how much better Railworks3/Train Simulator 2012 was and it has improved over the years to where we are today.

    And I have purchased TSW. The Graphics are better but the experience is not.
    I like to drive trains but what I can drive is limited to what DTG have timetable wise.
    Yes, with the mods from the Czech people I can run trains from one route over another but with not much verity.
    It would be nice to run a Loco Hauled Passenger train on GWR but I cannot

    With TS2020 I can run any train on almost any route - within a few limits
    If they let us do that in TSW it will be a better game

    Peter
     
    • Like Like x 3
  27. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Welcome to the club.

    Armstrong Powerhouse’s Track Enhancement and Weather Enhancement packs are both absolute musts.

    They will completely transform your experience.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Mar 13, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  28. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    I am already finding this to be the case. In nearly everything that I try on TS2020, it is better than TSW - including the very old stuff (circa 2012...). You can make out track-side speed restriction signs for a start... It all just seems to flow more naturally, as if you were driving a train in sensible-land. And the scoring system makes sense - and it encourages you to improve your knowledge of the train's performance, and the route layout. And then run the service again. And at night, TS2020 is way better than TSW - and I mean graphically....!

    And that's even while I get to grips with the control method... which has been driving me nuts. Do you know, off-hand, if the XBox controller right-press of the R3 stick actually activates a cross-hair (I actually want the "grabber"....), on anyone's system....on any standard DTG route? ......because I can never get the crosshair/grabber on screen....?

    Crosshair or not, I think that I have control sort of nailed for now. XBox controller, plus mini keyboard (with trackpad, and decently solid LMB and RMB keys) for the odd button press that is not mapped and for cursor nav. I might need to glue something onto the "T" to make it a home key (cos I can't see the keyboard with the PSVR headset on..... ;-) ). I really don't want to use a mouse with a train simulator....

    I heard a rumour that DTG will soon include a service out of Paddington, with loco "substitutions" on TSW. Possibly a few scenarios - could maybe MkIs, MkIIs or MkIIIs, either from WSR, NTP, or reskiined HST MkIIIs from GWE. We'll see. But I don't think that one gesture would be a huge improvement to TSW, overall....

    I must admit that aside from the DS4 mapping on the PS4 (including the free camera control)......that I really do miss the clear gradient indication*** on the TSW HUD. But that is the only thing that I can think of, where TSW is better, where it is actually important to me.

    I'd be tempted to add that I like the "stopping accuracy" objectives in TSW, but even these are often broken (wrong way around) or wrong (nowhere near the actual relevant Stop Marker actually drawn on the station, for example on the East Coastway route.....) - and these are immersion breaking features in TSW.

    ***If clear indication of gradient (a number?) is included in TS2020....do please let me know..... ! Maybe I am missing something obvious...?

    EDITED TO ADD: I have now spotted the gradient "number", and worked out how the direction is indicated, with the faint slope at the bottom of the screen - they could have just had a bigger font for the number, and put in a +/-..... But it is there.
     
    Last edited: Mar 14, 2020
  29. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Thank you. I will look into these (and get a PayPal account....) - the track pack would be priority maybe. I am actually quite content with TS2020, so far. ;-)

    NB: I'd be tempted to enquire about why purchases from an external provider are required to make improvements to the base simulator, but I know that TS2020 is more of a "community project"... and I wanted to keep this as a short "thank you" post... for a change... ;-)
     
    • Like Like x 1
  30. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    There's no such thing as "the base simulator". The game engine provides input and controls but all content is in DLC, whether from DTG or otherwise

    AP are known to provide good quality DLC, but be aware that if you want to play the scenarios that come with their content you are likely to find the requirement for more of their DLC to be extensive
     
    • Like Like x 1
  31. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Yes....! I think that you tried to tell me this about ten times, about six months ago, in relation TSW... but I didn't understand.... But I finally undertstood what you meant about a month ago - and it has a lot of implications for implementing/maintaining standards... and the nightmare of how bugs are reported and fixed (or not)... in TSW, including random stuff like.... user settings that don't stick.... Thank you for persisiting. Seriously - I wish I understood your point six months ago, because it would have saved me a lot of time.... ;-)

    So - I guess my point should be better phrased as .. ".....if AP (or anyone else) can make an overlay to improve the look of all DLCs (?), then why doesn't DTG include it as a universal standard, or something just like it, with the game engine... or as a plug-in that is launched alongside all DLC... from the core UI...., or require the overlay to be built-in to all new DLC, to reflect a technical progressive improvement to the product that they sell....?"

    But for now.... I am not going to worry about it.... (Except for simlar issues with TSW, where such problems should never ever arise).

    Thanks for this as well. I guess it's part of the commercialised aspect of the "community project" - some of these scenarios are presumably created for the sole purpose of selling the 3rd party paid-for content. I don't actually mind this at all with TS2020 - it's part of the proposition (although there are quite a few projects like GPBikes that require a minimal initial charge to get involved.... and then everything that gets developed, by anyone, must be exchanged for free if it is to be shared at all - and this also means "used at all" in, say an online race.... but that's bike enthusiasts for you... they're very relaxed..... and they just don't realise how much cash they could make from each other...! This will all change, when we are invaded by the Ferengi).

    In any case, with TS2020, I can get scenarios without paid for content... or I can make/modify my own....

    And anyway, I now have something like x250 "career" scenarios to chew through, and perfect.... so I have quite a bit to get through to keep me going for quite a while... ;-)
     
  32. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    Four sides to this (that I can think of)

    1 - Assets (things like trees, cars, level crossings) etc CAN be upgraded across routes, but mainly because a lot of third party routes especially use each other's assets, so update one central tree and all versions of that are updated
    DTG are loathe to do this it seems, maybe they have reasons such as impact on framerates etc (which is why you find a hell of a lot of 2D trees in TSW). Of course there are plenty of third party assets out there (millions in fact) and part of the "hobby" is finding which milkbottle (missing assets are often replaced on screen by milkbottles) comes from which route, which website etc. I used to have an extensive spreadsheet of all sorts of add ons, but couldn't be arsed after a while

    2 - consists. Unfortunately each consists control is built into the consist. It's how some consists use Q to cancel AWS and DSD, whereas others don't bother with DSD at all even though they have the peddle for it, and others use E for DSD and Q for AWS... Retrofitting units would be a pig to do, and given DTG wouldn't get any additional monies from doing so. Then again DTG aren't the only culprits in this. AP have just stripped a large number of scenario and asset packs, many of which are requirements for 3rd party content, but again, they won't make money from it so why should they update?

    3 - routes. Huge issue. Routes which go to the same places aren't joined up... In other words you could have three routes going to Cardiff, but because the older routes didn't use the correct geolocation you can't join them up to other routes which also go to Cardiff. There have been routes which have been joined, but it's a pig to do. You also have the point that if you copy or move a route in your file system all the scenarios will likely break, any requirements in that route will break, anything in the route folder it can't find will break... I think you get he idea

    4 - the editor has issues... OK, I have dabbled in the editor and am by no means an expert but I know of routes that have entire sidings as one line (meaning the next signal down the line is permanently at red even when you're not on the line itself, but in a siding), I know of platforms which are too short in the editor to get a train on there, so any scenario you make fails, I know of sidings set to one way, so you can pull into the siding, but not out again. And don't get me started on "what the front of the train is" when it comes to joining consists...

    So generally, whilst someone could spend the next ten years developing the various systems, upgrading assets, physics for each consist etc, it would be a thankless (ie no profit) and probably pointless exercise.

    Not how it works, due to the above. Added to this is that the steam method that DTG now employs means that anything you get from AP which enhances or overwrites anything in a DTG pack get rewritten back to the DTG version in a steam verify, and the first thing DTG insist you do to get their assistance is to verify your files. I feel for that one first ticket I put in and ended up spending an evening installing about 100 AP packs... not the most fun

    Yup, I just don't want to pay over £200 for DLC, some of which sit in sidings... You can swap things out with RWtools or bypass then missing assets by using F2, but I'm a stickler for things being as intended... Which is the only reason I bought the 66 powerhaul DLC

    If you get "annoyed" with the pernickety scoring system, you can turn points OFF so you can do route learning and then turn them back on to get the thousand. Oh, and be aware some of the scenarios have broken scoring. I know at least one where you can only get 800 points because they forgot to score the opening passenger load (and editing it makes it a standard rather than career scenario)
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  33. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Nope - I don't expect this with TS2020 3rd party assets. However, I fully expect TSW2020 to have assets that are managed and maintained properly, because it is being sold on PS4 and XBox. DTG are now actually thinking of hiring a QA person to monitor regression in coding. So there is some hope for the future.

    The strictness of the scoring system in TS2020 is a very big plus. It makes the simulation more of a game.... and that encourages you to fully test the simulation. It's a massive win-win, because it actively measures your developing skill/competence/knowledge.
     
  34. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    It does and it doesn't. The scoring is basically a timed driving test and quite a lot of the time that means slamming into full power from each stop and doing a brake test (as in full application) for every slow down or stop, so not quite as realistic as you might expect.
    There are also timed stops (where it won't let you go until the scenario programmed time) so what in reality would be a one minute pause at a station turns into a five minute stop in game. At each, and every, station.
    Thank god for asynckeys is all I can say
     
  35. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    I am still in the "Wow" first impressions stage of things with TS2020.... so I haven't come across this issue (super aggressive driving) as typical, or as a problem.... yet. And I have tried a few user-created scenarios, and they seem broadly okay (so far....). I am still finding the "flow" of interaction with TS2020 to be far more immersive than TSW, and I am not fully able to express quite why yet.... And graphically, I found the 68 on Edinburgh to Glasgow to be just as good as TSW, and perhaps more pleasing. Maybe my eyes are getting old... ;-)

    What I have discovered is that the feedback in this Forum is pretty useful. For example, Peter suggested avoiding the original ECML Newcastle to York route, and I can say that this is my least favourite so far (there's nothing much to do.... like GWE on TSW), thankfully it was less than £2......, but it did introduce me to the Deltic....

    Re "asynckeys"... a fast-forward console feature would be a good thing - potentially - it would make the Newc-York more bearable... ;-)
     
  36. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    Probably lower expectations... The TSx engine is over 12 years old and people expect that older software is likely to be less immersive for the 2020s than stuff designed in the last few years, and of course the graphics are not at all going to be cinematic.
    The 68 is good, even if the emergency brake has a hair trigger.
    Yup, but then half my scenario fails come from inattention, so inattention with 4 times the clock speed is also slightly dangerous. Anyhow, enjoy
     
  37. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,420
    Likes Received:
    2,674
    I rarely run Career Scenarios because you are expected to drive like an idiot to maintain times.
    And I'm not bothered about scoring points. I would play a arcade game if that was important.
    There are two ways around the Class 68 Brake problem
    [1] Modify the *.bin file so it can not go to emergency
    [2] Buy the AP Class 68 Enhancement Pack which has more liveries for the locos plus other improvements
    The bin file is modified so you cannot go to emergency except by using the Backspace button
    You can set up how much glag you want and how much motor noise when under power
    https://www.armstrongpowerhouse.com/enhancements/locomotive/class_68_enhancement_pack

    Peter
     
  38. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    I need to think about this more. Yes I do (or did...) have lower expectations for certain aspects of TS2020... say, user generated scenarios... Arguably I should hold the main content to the same standard as you would generally get on PS4... as it is a professional product, with premium-priced content being made as we speak... But TSW is sitting there to compare it with - and TS2020 and TSW really are very very different. (To me, anyway).

    Anyway.... I am saying that TS2020 (the stuff that I have experienced so far) is more immersive than TSW. I am not joking about this. I think I need to check out a few things on TSW on PC first (I am a PS4 player for TSW). In short, I think that TS2020 leads you down a different path in terms of gameplay, and TSW might actually inhibit the immersion (I am thinking about stop objectives, for example).

    Graphics are not the most important thing. A wireframe simulation can be incredibly immersive, depending on what else is happening in the interaction. But I think the TS2020 engine has potentially also got some very strong benefits over UE4...., especially when it comes to handling LoD - at least, compared to the the way UE has been implemented by DTG.

    I am also tempted to think that TS2020 is scaled differently, say 1:1 compared to 1:1.6 - giving a different force on the viewing perspective. When you pull into a station on TS2020 it feels like you are pulling into a platform, whereas on TSW it feels like you are arriving at a platform. It's hard to describe - and I am not 100% sure why it is happening. There could be a simple answer, like a default FoV setting that is better in TS2020.

    I will think on it. And... I will enjoy.... ;-)
     
  39. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    1,679
    TS20 is, in my humble opinion, a much better simulator than TSW. According to Steam, I've clocked up 1272 hours of playtime in TS20, and 160 hours in TSW.

    I bought TS20 over a year after TSW.

    I keep trying with TSW but in the end, it feels like a glorified demo compared to TS20.

    On a side note, thank God the March Madness sale ends soon, my wallet hurts!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  40. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 24, 2019
    Messages:
    5,567
    Likes Received:
    11,831
    Seems like the older Career Scenarios are the ones that are absolutely ridiculous in the completion times, requiring you to be absolutely perfect and keep the train running at 0.9 above the speed limit and braking perfectly (The 1st Donner Pass CS with the GP9 is a good example of this)

    It seems now the newer Passengers Career Scenarios are more lenient with the time of arrivals, and freight scenarios start with 1000 points, and only deduct points when you do anything unsafe.
     
    • Like Like x 1
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  41. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,420
    Likes Received:
    2,674
    Ok if you like to play the game so you can say "I've earned some points"
    Don't you also get points with other Arcade Games?
     
  42. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    1,679
    After ploughing more than a thousand hours into TS20, I can proudly announce that my career level is zero :)

    Points seem to get in the way of an enjoyable train drive for me.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  43. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    I have a funny feeling that TS2020 will crank up 1000 hours for me, in time, which would be astonishing, because that would exceed the 900 hours I have put into GT Sport.... But this is only possible (for me) because TS2020 is actually challenging me to learn and improve - whereas TSW does not do this (although it could, quite easily, with some thought applied to it......).

    But if you enjoy the simulation anyway - that's fabulous. And I guess that is why they have the "standard" mode.

    As an aside - TS2020 gets better and better with each new hour that I put into it. I am really starting to appreciate what IronBladder said about lighting and cloud effects being better in TS2020 (compared to TSW) as well as middle and distant scenery. I tend to prefer to run at night, preferably with rain.... and I can tell you that GWML on TS2020 compared to GWE on TSW, compared to real life experience of the route, has been a revelation.... If your only reference point was GWE on TSW, then you'd have to believe that London to Reading is a route through deeply forested countryside.... ;-O
     
  44. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    2,124
    What an interesting thread!

    I’m a big fan of north American diesel routes. One of the things I love about TSW is that the in cab experiences are more consistent and uniformly well above the Train Simulator average. It’s unfortunate to have a great route and a great scenario, but have bad locomotive sounds, physics, in cab graphics, or functionality.

    Learning to substitute locomotives into scenarios was something of a game changer for me. I now spend almost all my time driving day Searchlight Simulations Canadian Pacific AC 4400. For official DLC, I also really like the D&RGW Tunnel Motor and the CSX C30-7.

    As for routes, I am a big fan of single track with passing sidings. I want to interact more with the AI then just watch them go by on the track beside me. I have enjoyed and spent many hours with Sherman Hill and Soldier Summit, but for single track action, it’s hard to beat Montana Hi-Line. The included scenarios are good and the open western vistas are exactly what I remember riding this line as a passenger.

    I still love TSW - it got me into German routes, something I plan to explore at some point in TS. But thundering a diesel locomotive down a single track and bringing a heavy train to a smooth stop at a passing siding is an experience I keep coming back to in TS.
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  45. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 10, 2016
    Messages:
    8,420
    Likes Received:
    2,674
    I presume you have everything as the Sale has now finished
     
  46. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Aaah... well... funnily enough no, not quite.. (see end of this post... with respect to badgers....). Further to my purchase update on 12th March (my "Me waffle.....?" post....)... I had a couple of "filler-in" or maybe "rounds of panic buying" episodes on Steam, where I also picked up:

    - Metro North Kawasaki EMU (£1.19) and Genesis loco (£2.39);
    - NJ Transit ALP-46 (£1.19);
    - Scotrail Class 68 (£3.59) and EWS/FL Class 08s (2.09) and EWS Class 67 (£1.79);
    - South Wales BRISTOL - SWANSEA (£8.74) plus BR Classs 150/1 (£2.39)

    I then also bought the CSX GP40-2 for my PC version of TSW (which surprisingly runs really poorly on my PC compared to PS4 Pro, when I benchmarked it on the NTP route). And then I had a final mop-up round with TS2020:

    - Arriva DMUs (£1.49)
    - 455 (£2.39), 303 £2.29), and 325 £3.59)
    - F/L 57/0 (£2.24)
    - 390 (£2.39) - the dodgy one that I hope has been patched....
    - Southern 421 (£1.79) - even though I already had the other 421

    But today I saw the Class 89 released.... and realised that I should have bought the London-Peterborough route ahead of time for it..... These two will now have to wait for another sale, when hopefully the APT will come up as well... with maybe the Montana route.... We'll see..... I am always open to suggestions and recommendations - especially if I have missed anything non British.... (I am eyeing up the Japanese routes... but don't tell the Brits....)..... ;-)

    I am also considering the AP track pack and weather pack. I think the first one is free (?) from DPS....? I haven't felt the need to actually find and install these yet (or the RWEnhancer pack, or ReShade...).

    TS2020 is good enough to stand on its own two feet (in terms of simulation), and the UI is way better than TSW...... although the Workshop tab needs to have a really good look at itself in the mirror.....

    I would love to find a way to enable the cross-hair/cursor with the XBox controller, and map the LMB (select) and RMB (drag for view) mouse buttons to it.... My wireless keyboard has a fairly ropey tracker-pad.... I bought a new one and that doesn't have a physical RMB... so now I will need to buy another keyboard with solid clickable LMB & RMB......

    Having now run TS2020 for quite a number of hours.... even with old stuff like Glasgow to Edinburgh, I have come to the conclusion that DTG have really messed up TSW. They have tried to employ some of the visual features of UE, have Completely Facebooked the optimisation and consequently ruined the scope for any decently immersive simulation in the process - i.e. a simulation that involves seeing scenery and other trains.... And that is coming from someone that really likes TSW....!

    TSW will still live on my PS4 Pro for a while, because it's a really good winder-downer after a few hours of online car sim races (which can get quite brain frying...).... but TSW is not the cerebral simulator that TS2020 is... not by a very long chalk. My PC version of TSW is scheduled for deletion from my SSD, as soon as I have had a proper look at CSX:HH - but frankly, I suspect Soldier Summit on TS2020 to be much better (that's just a guess.....), so that won't be a loss.

    Right - I think I can smell my waffles burning in the toaster..... BRB....
     
    Last edited: Mar 19, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  47. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Um.... I think I now agree with all*** of this.... For me, TSW was a nice demo, while it lasted. It's great for static screenshots with some of its lovely high res textures, against the UE background... but that's about the limit when you discover TS2020 - which is actually a simulator. They should rename TSW as "Train Driving World", and add a bit more first person gameplay - like going into buildings to pick up your overalls, etc. Or a meeting with the manager, after your SPAD record gets a bit too gnarly.

    ***The only thing we differ on.... is that my wallet has now run away and gone into hiding, and has reported me to Social Services... but I am sure it will come back when I offer to feed it... Maybe... ;-O
     
    • Like Like x 1
  48. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 2, 2019
    Messages:
    1,462
    Likes Received:
    1,679
    Ha, yeah, I'm pretending I don't have a wallet now - I just picked up the class 89, I couldn't resist. I'll leave the Caltrain switcher for now.

    Just maybe, TSW is a demo framework for what DTG have in mind for the next proper train simulator iteration. Pure speculation, and I'm reasonably confident that the numbers wouldn't stack up, but the thought is there.
     
  49. synthetic.angel

    synthetic.angel Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,484
    Likes Received:
    2,265
    Yeah - well - I now have so much stuff for TS2020 - like over twenty routes... and x100 traction types to try out... and six months of manual reading to do... that I will be easily occupied enough to wait for the next sale.

    Actually - I will probably never need to buy a full priced DLC again - as maybe I will always be four or five years behind... and if I get through the whole catalogue.... I might spend about £1500.... but that would be £5000 less than full-price... (that is, of course, completely crazy logic... but in my student days I could easily burn through £2500 a year on beer alone... and you can't drink that beer more than once...).
     
    • Like Like x 1
  50. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2019
    Messages:
    1,102
    Likes Received:
    2,124
    So many British routes ..,. an area of TS & TSW I have yet to try. Let me know which ones you think would be a good introduction.

    Did you wind up with Soldier Summit? That is a great route and the D&RGW SD40T-2 is in my top 3 of US driving locos. Also, the workshop scenario Changing of the Guard is fabulous - it does require the California Zephyr DLC, though.

    So much to explore. Enjoy!
     

Share This Page