PC I Can't Change The Type Of Brakes In Class 31

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by arapajoe3, Mar 10, 2020.

  1. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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    Hello, when I change the type of brakes in class 31 to air passengers, the locomotive is still braking and does not move. I surely did something wrong. after changing the brake mode to air I open the vacuum valve and still I cant move. some help? thanks
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  2. Trim

    Trim Active Member

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    I've barely played with the class 31, but what exactly did you do? What train; what was the previous brake type setting; what position was the brake handle in?

    The usual problem with changing braking mode is moving through the vacuum brake positions with the selector switch, which very quickly charges the vacuum reservoir. This might be avoidable if the brake handle is in Shutdown, Emergency or Full Service position (I did some experiments a while ago on the class 37, but I forget what conclusions I came to, if any), but really, moving the selector switch through Vacuum Brakes is best avoided altogether, and you should pay attention to which way the switch turns before you hit a vacuum brake position. However, you say you opened the vacuum valve. Where is it on the class 31? I haven't found it on any of the main-line diesels, only on the class 08 (I don't think I've actually looked for it on the 40, 45 or 47, but I spent ages looking for it on the class 37).
     
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  3. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Well-Known Member

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    Vacuum release valves on engines are:
    Class 08 - Between train brake valve and control desk on right hand side.
    Class 31 - Above the second mans side door on the backwall.
    Class 33 - No physical valve in cab, built into brake selector switch
    Class 37 - Below and to the right of the hand brake
    Class 40 - Next to the second mans right knee
    Class 45 - on the hot plate stand (thing the hand brake is attached to) behind the U shaped protective shroud.
    Class 47 - No functional valve in cab, function built into brake selector switch
     
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  4. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    I've just looked through the Class 31's user manual, which includes the engine's "Quick Start Guide"; according to those instructions, the brake type must be set in both cabs.
    Here are the instructions for setting the brake in the rear cab (not the driving cab):
    "If the rear cab is also the No.2 Cab, ensure the brake mode selection switch is also set to the appropriate setting for your train. For light loco running, ensure it is set to Air Brake Passenger mode. The brake mode setting alters how quickly the brakes apply and release. For goods/freight trains, the brakes apply and release a little slower which minimises “snatching” (where trailing vehicles violently move back and forth in response to the brakes catching) and therefore excessive strain on the vehicle couplings."
    Instructions for the front cab are much more brief:
    "Check the appropriate brake mode indication is shown on the Secondman’s side of the cab."

    Typically, a scenario or [timetable] session either begins with most controls properly set or provides necessary control setting instructions, but this is not always true. Anyway, noting which scenario or session you're trying to run may lead to a more helpful solution to your problem.

    Hope this helps.
     
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  5. Trim

    Trim Active Member

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    Thank you for that, it is very useful.

    Why is none of this in any of the manuals? I found your own class 08 additional information document, which is quite superb, in this thread. Have you done any others?
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  6. Trim

    Trim Active Member

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    There isn't a selector switch in the No. 2 cab, is there? I haven't seen one.

    The sequence of instructions is poorly laid out (I think manuals for other locos of similar era are the same) for it suggests you need to enter three cabs, which is daft:
    1. Enter the No. 1 Cab
    2. Enter the rear cab
    3. Enter the forward cab
    It would do better to just list rear cab then front cab, and for whichever one of these is the No. 1 cab, also do whatever only exists in the No. 1 cab.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  7. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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    You're right there is only one switch in one of the cabins to change it
    upload_2020-3-10_20-39-23.png
     
  8. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Well-Known Member

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  9. Trim

    Trim Active Member

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    Are you coupled to a train? What are the vehicles?

    As I say, I have not done much with the class 31, but I thought that it was always set to Vacuum - Passenger for where you are hauling dead DMUs (which is correct, since these only have vacuum brakes), and is always set to Air - Goods on freight workings, which is also correct since TVL only has air-braked wagons.

    There ought, of course, be vacuum release strings on the DMU vehicles, but I have never noticed them and I doubt they exist in game, since there is no need for them. There aren't any (so far as I can tell) on the VVV vans on NTP either, but there are strings on the dual-braked BGs.
     
  10. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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    What I did exactly is to start the locomotive and change the passenger air brakes. When you start are vacuum passengers on the locomotive. once changed I open the vacuum valve and the vacuum needle goes down to the bottom, but when activating the regulator the train does not move unless I change it again to vacuum passengers
     
  11. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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    It is the complete route of tees valley with passengers, with two DMU passenger cars. In other locomotives doing the same process I have been able to change the type of brake (Clasess 33, 45, 47 etc)
    upload_2020-3-10_20-43-23.png
     
  12. Trim

    Trim Active Member

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    You'll have the vacuum brakes on on the carriages then (unless you can find the vacuum release strings on each DMU carriage, in which case you'll be running without train brakes :o).

    On the two TPO runs on NTP, it seems the trains arrive in Manchester and Leeds without ever having had the brakes on the vans charged, and you can select either air or vacuum brakes in the locomotive (provided you do this before you release the train brakes). I don't think I've tried setting vacuum brakes on passenger trains in NTP since the carriages are air-braked only. However, if you managed to do this, it would mean you were just using the loco brakes. On the Newspaper train in NTP Heavy Freight, you can run in vacuum brake mode, but you have to release all the air reservoirs down the train before you leave Manchester.
     
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  13. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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  14. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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    Could it be that I have to change them from DMU cars in addition to the locomotive? Of course, but that may not be possible, right? I didn't see the way to change it either
    upload_2020-3-10_20-56-50.png
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
  15. Trim

    Trim Active Member

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    The DMU cars only have vacuum brakes. They don't have air brakes. Each car has a vacuum reservoir, just like the locomotive, and once it is charged with a vacuum, the brakes will be applied. The only ways you can release the brakes on the DMU cars are by pulling a vacuum on the brake pipe, which means putting the locomotive into vacuum brake mode, or else pulling the vacuum release strings on each vehicle, but I don't think these are modelled. Even if you are able to pull the strings, you still would not get air brakes on the DMU cars because the DMU doesn't have an air brake pipe, let alone any air brake cylinders, reservoirs or distributors.

    As far as I am aware (I don't have WSR, so I don't know what vehicles that has), the only vehicles in TSW with both vacuum and air brakes are the BG vans in NTP. Everything else is either one or the other.
     
    Last edited: Mar 10, 2020
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  16. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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    So clearly that will be right. If the DMU wagons only have vacuum brakes, I understand that it cannot be done. Thank you for the information and for answering! it was very useful
    upload_2020-3-10_21-15-55.png
     
  17. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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  18. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    WSR has Mk1 coaches. According the Matt they have vacuum brakes, which means that if you use the class 08 or the class 31 you need to check for proper brake type setting.
     
  19. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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