Will You Buy Tsw 2?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by longo239, Jun 11, 2020.

?
  1. Yes, as soon as possible.

  2. Possibly, eventually.

  3. No

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  1. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I tried this, but I always find the controller (input directly) more immersive than looking at controls. I'd change my mind if TSW was in VR.... ;-)

    Also... unfortunately, in TS1, you can't use a gamepad to move the cursor - you can only grab on screen controls with a mouse.... It's the single biggest flaw in TS1 playability, from a couch, which they solved in TSW..... So you need a mouse to press certain buttons (I use a trackpad on a wireless keyboard... just to press the occasional switch).

    Maybe I will get a RailDriver for TSW2.... ;-O
     
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  2. Thelonius16

    Thelonius16 Well-Known Member

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    Oooh!! I'm a technical writer! I hope they hire me.
     
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  3. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    wa very good
     
  4. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    So am I, and I hope that my telephone stays silent. I have easily enough writing projects on the go at the mo.....
     
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  5. Tizdaz

    Tizdaz New Member

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    £25? why not, price of 2 scenario's and we get a lot more plus newer game.
     
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  6. Mr T

    Mr T Well-Known Member

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    Well, route length is something they said they're putting off to another stream. It will be interesting to see if the routes in TSW2 are longer than those is TSW1. It might be a carrot to attract more potential buyers if they are.
     
  7. Trooper117

    Trooper117 Active Member

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    If I buy TSW2, and the Raildriver controller plus trackIR actually become a reality, then I may find myself buying one too!
     
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  8. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I'm guessing you mean £25 for two routes?

    £25 for two scenarios is next year's price structure :cool:
     
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  9. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I had a look online at the RailDriver... and I have now gone off it entirely..... I would rather put £250 towards another sim racing wheel, built to a far higher standard of quality. Also - not very good for use on the couch/sofa.

    If I happen to find myself with a few hundred grand spare, and I upgrade my house, and I then build a dedicated room for train simulation... (after the room for racing simulation)..... then I might get a RailDriver..... but until such a monstrosity comes into existence.... I am gonna let it slide.
     
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  10. Trooper117

    Trooper117 Active Member

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    I'm not a fan of using the keyboard for controlling my sims... I have a good flight sim and racing sim set up.
    If the developers won't allow any kind of user controllers/throttle systems etc except Raildriver, we are stuck... I can only hope eventually someone sells one second hand on ebay or something.
     
  11. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    Oh no..... I do not use a keyboard.... not for TSW at all (DS4 only), and I try to avoid keyboard/mouse for TS1 (I use the XBox controller, and a trackpad for the odd "click and drag"....). Can't be dealing with a keyboard.... cos I use PSVR headset.... (TSW and TS1), and PSVR and keyboards do not mix well.....

    I have also got a programmable Logitech GamePad, but not tested it with a setup for TS1 - if I can get that to do mouse buttons on TS1, then I am sorted, methinks. I have a G29 on the sim-racing rig.... but thinking of moving on to Fanatec soon.
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2020
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  12. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Two Weeks after the Q&A with no real further information released:

    250 votes cast (+60)
    46.0% - Yes (-0.8%)
    35.2% - Possibly (-2.2%)
    15.8% - No (0%)
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
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  13. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    So far then it’s 84% buying it and 16% “I know I said I wouldn’t buy it but...” buying it a bit later ;)
     
  14. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    So after watching last night's stream and truthfully hoping to hear something to make me change my mind, there just seemed to be a lot of "it'll look the same", "it'll sound the same". Apparently there's going to be new trees!

    Many things can't or won't be implemented because it's not realistic for the period of time the route is set in, yet on the other hand you can put electric trains on a non electric line!

    For a supposedly NEW game it's going to look and sound incredibly similar if not identical to the old game.

    It still sounds more like an engine upgrade with a rehash of an old route and a couple of new routes.

    Unfortunately, I didn't hear anything to change my mind.

    Before all the avid supporters start chirping up saying "No one's forcing you" etc, etc. this is purely my opinion and at this moment in time, unlike some, I won't be sat in front of my computer on 6th August with credit card in one hand and box of kleenex by the other!
     
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  15. davejc64

    davejc64 Well-Known Member

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    Hope they release it on game pass for PC like they have TSW 2020, happy to give it a go on that, but it wont be a day 1 purchase for me, ill wait until its reduced in price in a sale otherwise.
     
  16. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Yep, same here, my wallet will be staying shut, well sort of, I've some catching up to do on TS1. The adhesion feature in TSW2 does sound good so hopefully it's a start of many new features, I wonder if neutral sections will be included in future TSW2 electric routes? (not sure if there are neutral sections on LU in real life, I guess Germany must have some sort of neutral sections?).

    I'll be watching progress from the sidelines but when a really tempting sale (say 50%) happens at some point and I've caught up with my TS1 backlog then I'll dive in as I did enjoy riding as a passenger and hopping from one train to another.
     
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  17. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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    I apparently don't see anything new either in the screenshots they are publishing. I could perfectly say that it is the same TSW2020 in appearance. All those new things will then be in: scenario "editor", supposed change of hud, and I imagine that better performance and reduction of bugs? I still do not understand what to call it "new game" ... rather I still see it as an update of TSW2020 simply ...
    Yes I see a NEW game the transition from TS1 to TSW2020, but not from TSW2020 to TSW2 honestly
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
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  18. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It’s released as a new game because it’s incompatible with the original, so can’t just be released as an update. It’s not a completely new game, which is why it’s called Train Sim World 2 and not something like Drivey Drivey Train Thing.
     
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  19. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    You could be onto something there as a future title.... :D
     
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  20. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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    I agree with you, but the publicity is completely clear about a new game, Matt's said in the TSW2 YouTube video presentation min 15:00: "we've got effectively two different games" while asking about the transition from the saved data from one game to another. I repeat that I do not see two different games but let's say a BIG update of TSW2020. If it is not a completely new game, how can it cost the same as the original and completly game?
    I am still waiting since the announcement for such revolutionary and new things ... and after the disappointment that the announcement caused, I think that showing that new things would come in handy ... or maybe it is not so new ...
     
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  21. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    It's not actually incompatible, it's just not worth the amount of time and money it will apparently take and there's no money to be made from stuff that's already been sold.

    It's like a car that's had a minor crash but the insurance has classed it as a write off because it's going to cost too much in parts and labour to repair.

    As for the name, I like it too and the way it's heading, in a few years it may be a more appropriate name! :cool:
     
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  22. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    If the two titles were compatible then no work would need to be done. If you have to do a lot of work to make something compatible then that means by definition it’s not compatible. Like doubling your weight and still trying to get your old trousers on. You can undo all the seams and sew extra material in to make them compatible with your new body shape but in their original form they just won’t fit. They are incompatible.
     
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  23. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    No, the trousers in your analogy are being altered to make them fit. They are still trousers regardless of needing alterations.

    Incompatible: adj. (of two things) so different in nature as to be incapable of coexisting.

    TS and TSW are incompatible, totally different games.

    TSW and TSW 2 are using the same engine albeit a newer version. They look the same, they sound the same. If, as you say they are incompatible, explain how they are using the first route from the original TSW to launch TSW2? Wouldn't it have needed to have been built from the ground up rather than reworked? How is the"Preserved Collection" possible if they're incompatible?

    TSW just required alterations to make it fit, but it was felt that it was too labour intensive therefore not worth the effort and investment.

    That's the decision DTG have taken whether we like it or not.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
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  24. Scorpion71

    Scorpion71 Well-Known Member

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    Oh dear, the discussion of TSW/2 and "pants" (another word for trousers which can also be defined as "rubbish") have unwittingly come into the conversation LOL :D

    Maybe we've all had our pants pulled down after investing in TSW

    OK, I'll zip it, I mean, stop now. ;)
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
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  25. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    It appears no analogy is going to work. Consultation of a dictionary might work though. Compatible can be found in the C section. Now that sounds like a baby is about to be born. A little baby of knowledge. If something is compatible it will work without change.
    They are not using the same build of the route, a massive amount of work has been done to make it... erm... compatible, there really isn’t a better word for it.
     
  26. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for agreeing they are compatible, not incompatible as DTG have previously stated.

    Incompatible can be found under I in your dictionary:
    Incompatible: adj. (of two things) so different in nature as to be incapable of coexisting.

    So as you have kindly pointed out, with "a massive amount of work" they are compatible as they do appear to be co-existing.
     
    Last edited: Jul 4, 2020
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  27. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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    Sand patch upgrade from what I saw in the last video in which they made Q&A what they emphasized the most was in the trees, vegetation, new skyboxes ... Wow trees, trees and tress.. I do not see much impossible compatibility or something extremely new either. as they said in the video is a remastering, and from what I see they just wanted to add it to the consoles
     
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  28. bart2day

    bart2day Well-Known Member

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    It IS a new game in the same way that ‘Fifa’ is a new game every year. Same game engine (In TSW a version of Unreal, in Fifa a version of frostbite), minor to moderate improvements to gameplay, functionality and UI. Yet FIFA costs £59.99 RRP every year and fans lap it up.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
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  29. Plastic Pal

    Plastic Pal Well-Known Member

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    I think that you have made an incredibly informative observation. Possibly the most powerful observatiion about what we are being sold with the "Preserved Collection" ..........that I have seen.

    If the Sand Patch Grade route had to be "rebuilt from the "ground-up" - from nothing - literally researching it again and building it again completely from scratch.... for a completely different game engine..... then why would they do that....? As we have been told - this approach would require infinite time and infinite resources.......!!! Wouldn't it be better to start a completely different route from scratch.... from "ground-up". At least the time and resources required would then be finite.

    And the answer is that not only can they convert rolling stock from TSW to TSW2 - but they can also convert entire routes.

    I don't actually expect current TSW routes to be converted to TSW2. It really probably would be quite a lot of work, even if demonstrably not infinitely so. But all of the TSW rolling stock (including consists) should be converted and made available for use on all TSW2 routes, with full functionality in the Livery Editor and Scenario Planner. That would represent a happy medium - and it would probably deal with 90% of the (non-Editor related) criticism with DTG's approach with launching TSW2. It would be an extremely popular feature for anyone that has an outline collection of German, British or North American rolling stock. Frankly - we should have had this with TSW in the first place. What they did with the Class 52 and Class 33 was an utter disgrace.
     
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  30. 7orenz

    7orenz Well-Known Member

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    Just a personal (Xbox oriented) consideration about the Microsoft GamePass...

    With the GamePass we own the main-game for "free"
    but I suspect that's also the cause why we pay every single DLC almost permanently at almost full price! 28euro instead of 30.
    On PS4 and on PC, actually, you pay the main-game at very cheap price (20euro?)
    And every 2 or 3 weeks you have sales from 50% to 70% over all the TSW add-ons.

    Xbox GamePass players can only dream for this above, because max sale I personally seen, it was 30% off. And it happen just 1 or 2 times in a single year (strategically its hard to waith 6 months to buy a product that for you is a priority: my main-title). And personally I think its not a smart deal to take the core-game for "free" but pay almost 600 euro to own all the TSW DLC+Add-ons. Im sure, on PC and PS4, with almost permanente sales,without GamePass, you can own a very great deal compared to Xbox One users.
     
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  31. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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    Yes, it is true that the Fifa's release a new game every year, that has always been their way of updating them, because when they were on old consoles there was no other way than to create a new physical game, since updates via the internet did not exist, Ps1 , Ps2 .. Nowadays they keep doing it because they know that they have thousands and thousands of players who like football and they will buy it (perhaps being able to make updates in these new eras ..). But you just have to see the displeasure of many of the Fifa players with the policy they use.
    We are no longer in the era of Ps1 ... today maybe they can be updated but they prefer to make a new one, let's say there is enough controversy in the community about it.

    What I mean is that if TSW becomes Fifa's it would be an even bigger disappointment towards DTG, for me they would be digging their own grave (I hope it is not). Also, I don't think DTG has as many buyers as Fifa to allow itself to get a new TSW every two or three years and that everyone buys it even if they disagree (unfortunately there are sooooo many more football fans than train fans). I hope that if their idea is to become like the Fifa games, they will say it well in advance so that potential buyers think twice about buying the game.
     
    Last edited: Jul 5, 2020
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  32. Trooper117

    Trooper117 Active Member

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    Well, perhaps like FIFA they just want to make more money... but unlike FIFA, not all the fans of TSW are screaming ''take my money'' lol!
    Many are raising eyebrows and saying ''hang on a minute, this needs looking at''... :o
     
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  33. crodgersz

    crodgersz New Member

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    I'm kind of on the fence at the moment, however, I would be interested in tsw2 if there were decent UK content. Don't get me wrong I have all UK dlc which are fine. But we need steam too. Also I might be tempted from day one if there was a loyalty discount as I own tsw1.
     
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  34. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Looks like the fishing enthusiasts are having a similar discussion! :(
     
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  35. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Monday morning after Friday's Sand Patch Grade Q&A:

    287 votes cast (+37)
    44.6% - Yes (-1.4%)
    36.6% - Possibly (+1.4%)
    18.8% - No (+3.0%)

    Depending how you want to read the statistics, 81.2% will buy it eventually. Alternatively, 55.4% won't be buying it as soon as it's released.

    As more information has been released, fewer people are saying they will buy at release. Which, personally I would have expected the more information people have, the more you would be expecting them to be wanting to buy.

    I'm sure there are many other ways to spin the numbers to fit whatever narrative you wish to subscribe to. But as the saying goes, "There are three kinds of lies: lies, damned lies and statistics!"
     
    Last edited: Jul 6, 2020
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  36. Iskra

    Iskra Active Member

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    I will be in no rush to buy. The UK DLC (my main interest) does not interest me and I've not got too much interest in the other two routes either. I will hang back until something does interest me. I will also wait to read reviews- if the games is broken when it comes out, I won't be buying until it is fixed.
     
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  37. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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    I am going to do exactly the same haha when the game comes out and the days go by, we will see the forums to see what they say. Either we see that it is a remnant of TSW in which I will only see threads of bugs and things like that, or gloriously we will see that it is incredibly stable and new. I look forward to that day, although today I do not have much hope ...
     
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  38. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    The more I see of the Q&A streams, the more I feel I am less likely to buy the game. If the underground route had been released for TSW2020, I would have had no hesitation in purchasing it.

    For me, I am extremely peeved about the preserved collection and the fact that the £500 I have spent on the game so far will be useless when it comes to the new routes and new features in TSW2. The fact the DTG still won't give a committed answer to what will be available so close to the date of release makes me wonder actually how much will transferred to the new game in a working order.

    I don't like the way DTG seem to be trying to blame the community for having too high expectations for the original TSW. It was only natural that people would expect the same features as TS1. DTG have been happy to take our money on the basis of these expectations for the past couple of years, they knew full well their customers were fully expecting an editor. Whilst it might be legal when the letter of law is considered, morally it's questionable.
     
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  39. kevin.charb81

    kevin.charb81 Well-Known Member

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    This right here is what has me feeling uneasy. Leaving the worst news for last? Feels that way. I can't imagine the blowback on this forum alone if they announced what it is it feels they're holding back.
     
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  40. heyitspopcorn

    heyitspopcorn Well-Known Member

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    It's disappointing that DTG has completely thrown in the towel on patching any of the previous routes or fixing long-standing issues (such as NEC signalling/ACSES). I fully expect the practice to continue in TSW2. For me to be interested in purchasing, it would have to be a HEFTY discount for current TSW owners -- I mean, the price would have to be $10 or less for TSW2 -- AND without any major bugs at launch for me to be onboard with giving Dovetail any more money.
     
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  41. hunterjsopak

    hunterjsopak New Member

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  42. Jack O'Track

    Jack O'Track Active Member

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    Well, after buying TSW about a year ago, mainly because of the graphics, and not willing to buy Marklin train stuff i was used to in my youth thanks my dad. Also because of price and space needed. Alas i never really got into TSW for a few reasons.

    1) all that mousing around tombrider-like finding the right button puzzling.
    2) that stupid game over stuff when you run a red light.
    3) the obliged boring station waiting time to pick up the same zombies at each 'passenger train' job.
    4) the obliged "mousewalks' across railway yards and stations quite piss me off too.

    But the graphics are superb some times. BTW are all the vans Ford Transit?

    Only when there would be more intelligence built in to the game like an editor, or the possibility to build your own routes i might buy something again.

    The quite simple trains as come with IL2 Sturmovik Great Battles and Rise of Flight offer far more game (programming) fun.
     
  43. andref.maccarini

    andref.maccarini Member

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    Let this sink in: Arma 3, a tactical shooter, with the Advanced Train Simulator mod is a more customizable game than TSW, a dedicated train simulator.
     
  44. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I'm undecided. I find myself playing TSW less and less these days. The lack of customisation, and the fact that I can only drive locos on the route that they came with is a serious limitation. Why can't I drive the class 40 from the Trans-Pennine add on anywhere I like? That, more than anything, annoys me. The lack of 3rd party content, and the whole "game" feel puts me off a little too. It looks fantastic, sure... but that novelty wears off after a while, and with mods like TSEnhancer etc, you can get TS2020 looking quite nice. I get it... it's to appeal to a wider audience, and those with consoles... I know... and DTG have to earn money... but being stuck with the route and it's locos is very limiting. The ability to customise routes, make scenarios and repaint rolling stock in TS2020 outweighs any benefits of using the unreal engine in TSW for me. I bought the Trans-Pennine route... then the freight add on to get the class 40... but once you've "done" all that, you've done it. I want to be able to put that class 40 on another route.. create a scenario etc. With that in mind, TS2020 sees 90% of my game time... TSW only gets an outing when something new is released.. then quickly gets put back in its box. I guess I'm just not the TSW target demographic. If I say any more, I'll get accused of being the "PC Master race" by the console crowd, so I'll leave it there. I've no idea what that even means. I'm rocking a 10 year old 3960X and a GTX980... hardly cutting edge.

    At some point, when on sale, I may buy it, but it's not a priority for me at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
  45. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    An excellent post. The two points I've cherry-picked are linked.

    We're not giving a committed answer to what will be available at launch until right before launch so that we're accurate with what we tell you. Dovetail Games raised expectations with the first game by talking about what we hoped to deliver, features that were intended, before work had begun on any implementation of those features. This obviously served to create a level of expectation with players that ended up being beyond what could be achieved. It's not the players at fault for having those expectations, not even slightly. This is what we want to avoid in the future, and why we're not hiding from the questions. If there are any feature questions unanswered by the release of the game we'll get them answered ASAP - we don't want anyone going into the game expecting X and receiving Y.

    This is why we're trying to give you an accurate picture of what to expect and, when it comes to preserved collection, when to expect it. The order in which we're releasing the preserved routes hasn't been locked yet - we want to make sure the most popular routes get highest priority, while optimising the order to deliver as much as possible as quickly as possible.

    Yes, it's frustrating to have to wait for information, but you'll get it before the launch of the game.
     
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  46. arapajoe3

    arapajoe3 Active Member

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    Exactly, all the money invested in TSW stayed there, for me the preserved collection is not an incentive to buy TSW2. I bought the game, and a few dlc's waiting for new routes, updates, etc. During the wait I added more dlc's to my collection and now I know that it will never be updated nor will it have the supposed new features of TSW2. I think TS1 offers everything you would have expected at TSW, you buy a route and you can enjoy it in a thousand different ways being a good investment.

    Of course we are not to blame for the community expectations or perhaps we are guilty for innocently believing everything that would come. I don't want to be guilty of spending money for something I won't enjoy again ... They can already give a great announcement shortly before launch as they say because today the trees, painting the locomotive and the quick drive make me feel guilty of spending the money.

    TS1 we will spend many hours together again!!! (Hello TS1 my old friend......)
     
    Last edited: Jul 7, 2020
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  47. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    Way too early to decide yet.
     
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  48. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    Shafted over TSW supposedly being the greatest thing since the introduction of the Class 52's on the WR.

    Also being the future of train gaming, then less than 10 yrs later. Oh it's not after all, because TSW2 is supposedly the greatest thing since the evolution of mankind. A game dominated by what is wanted by console players. Who we all know, jump from one game to the next in the blink of an eye.

    I will stick with DRS, obviously the future of UK train simming. Which already has more playability than TSW ever had and TSW2 will never have.

    So my answer is still NO.
     
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  49. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Judging by what "the console players" have been saying on this forum for the last few years this is patently untrue...
    DTG aren't listening to ANYONE, and doing what they want to do in ways they know how to. The problem is that others want what COULD be done if the budget was 20 times larger
     
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  50. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    I just want to be able to mix and match routes/locos... and have more third party content. If it did that, I'd use it more.
     
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