My view. Main points Although the shortest route Bakerloo line was the toughest to build. London road Sidings Stonebridge Park depot No Kilburn High Loop No WCML usuage (so scenario planner will be LOVE then) 1 training scenario 5 (day in the life) Scenarios 200 Services (extending to 451 after release with an update*) * 451 services should see train running every 5 minutes Overhaul of passenger system with in the the next year. Passenger PIS look great and I like it. My bug bear will be the lack of the WCML usage. Scenario planner will be useless. oh wait we can always use the ice 3 on the underground.... (need to insert :rolleyes: here) You are running next to the one of the busiest mainlines in the UK and its going to look abandoned. Overall another opportunity missed by DTG. Think it may become UK's version of Rapid Transit. Yes the route looks great but I just feel a bit of a letdown. I can understand about disabling walking through the tunnels. looks as though I'll be hijacking an underground train for the Walking the route series. Your thoughts. Hentis
I don't really care about a slither of track not being used but my view.I don't know if anything else runs on the bakerloo over all Im happy for the route
Hello hentis I am disappointed that the wcml is just modelled and not usable in scenario planner I think this is the biggest missed opportunity, the implementation of the passenger information systems is very nice however. Overall I believe this route is the biggest missed opportunity of tsw2 as there probably won’t be any dlc. In comparison with koln to Aachen and sand patch this route has nothing on them as they are chains in front
I feel like it was a very good stream and personally I dont mind about the WCML and really excited about the PIS.
I'm disappointed as much as most about lack of AI on the WCML but fully expected it because what have we got in the TSW library to run on it? A light engine Class 66 and??
You could use the JNA wagons and a 66 coming from either direction also 66 and intermodal wagons. possibly the DB Schenker hoppers. Yes the stream was good. I will be using the route but disapointed. I mean they never even mentioned about putting a busker on the underground playing some strain of music. Or the beggar trying to sell you a pack of kleenex for £5.00 as he has no job, money or food to feed is 15 kids. Regards Hentis
We can't make use of the WCML route because it doesn't work. We've modelled only what can be seen. The alternative would be either - model enough of the route to make it usable or leave it out entirely. The former wasn't practical, the latter wasn't desirable. Your disappointment has been registered.
I was a bit mad about the tunnels but thats not the point of the game but they are going to update the services which is really nice DTG must be on point
Thanks Sam, Guess that'll teach me for getting my hopes up lol. Still I like the look of the route and look forward to giving it the walking the route treatment in a few weeks time Hentis / Tony
I think it looks really nice and I appreciate that they added the passenger information system. I think that makes the platforms look a lot more alive. I'm really disappointed though that none of the speed controlled signals are included. They are all over the place in the underground section of the Bakerloo line and they are a really important and distinctive feature of the signalling system in use on London Underground.
Personally I found the whole thing a bit disappointing. Not a fan of the underground routes and this just reinforced it for me. Yes, it looks pretty but that's about it and the thought of ultimately having 450 chances in service mode to drive from one end to the other sounds pretty pointless. Also as a side note, someone said DTG doesn't photoshop screenshots they've been providing. If that's the case what's happened here?
I’m really looking forward to the London Underground Bakerloo Line. It might not be perfect, but nothing ever is and I think what was shown and talked about was strong and it looks like fun.
What is Wcml and PIS, I haven't a clue. I am not from the London area (yorkshire) so have no real interest in doing 450 services covering just 14 miles, mainly in a tunnel.
WCML is the West Coast Main Line, you can see the tracks of the WCML at a station (forgot which one) but there is no AI train. PIS is Passenger Information Screen, on stations you have these boards near platforms that says; When the next train is coming, where it goes etc.
Thank you diamonderp for information. Thank you stujoy, slightly sarcastic, I have every route and every loco released, and enjoy all of them, just think underground is to London centric as so much is. Thank you ltecactus, a long time since I have been on the tube, so didn't know that, will enjoy route more than I thought.
The game is not the WCML, so why would they build entirely new AI trains for the game, that wouldn't be of use anywhere else? They said it is used as scenery, not to be used. The WCML shouldn't be the focus. The only train we would have for it would be the 377, but that one doesn't even have a pantograph. I cannot see why you are all focused on the WCML, and think about the actual gameplay more.
I think it might become a bone of contention for a long time for a small (or possibly large?) number of people. I hope it doesn’t end up with constant complaining about it on the forum. Although it is a valid point that the sections adjacent to the WCML are going to feel a bit dead with no trains on the mainline, they’ve made it as scenery, not proper working track, so it is what it is. The main point, as you say, is that it’s all about the underground route and trains. If you’re driving the 1972 stock along the fantastic detailed route, concentrating on driving well and keeping to the timetable on a possibly slippery track, the lack of a couple of trains (and if it were included it would just be a couple of trains) passing shouldn’t matter that much. There’s going to be plenty of immersion going on with what is included. TSW routes have never been the busiest for AI trains anyway. Would it be better if there were more trains? Yes. Does it completely spoil the game that there isn’t? No. You get to drive on a very detailed underground route. I’m just hoping it isn’t full of bugs because that is what really spoils things. I have high hopes.
You make some good points. To be honest I was never expecting the WCML to have any traffic in timetable mode. There is no accurate stock to run on it apart from the Class 66 from GWE/East Coastway and no one as seriously expecting DTG to suddenly make a 390 or 350 just for a six mile section. What I found really disappointing is that they haven’t even made it functional for AI services on the Scenario Planner so if I wanted to I can stick the class 377 and class 66 on there as AI. I don’t understand why they couldn’t have marked start and end points on the WCML and then we could run AI trains between the two. Would that have been so hard? I have long argued that what brings a route to life is lots of traffic. The lack of it is what made LIRR, which is supposed to be one of the busiest railroads in the US feel so dead. With 200 services (there should be coming on 1000 in real life) I worry that the Bakerloo line will feel dead too. The update to 450 should help with that however.
A question that was requested a few times I saw, and wasn't answered, was how far can we explore into the stations. Hopefully in the next one where they go over it all it will be clarified
It is disappointing and, although I expected it to not have AI on it, I thought the same about it being working track so you could add something yourself. They said it was the most time spent on development of any TSW route, so maybe it was purely the time constraints, which they also covered in the stream, that prevented them from making it working track, and it would have been the lowest priority due to the lack of authentic trains to add as AI. So a big disappointment right now for a lot of people. I get that. I do hope the update to the busier timetable actually makes it to the route because the lack of WCML traffic makes that even more important.
In terms of service mode, 200 services roughly corresponds to the full length services to Harrow and Wealdstone which has a frequency of 6tph irl. The 400 service mode adds shorter workings to Queens park I'm guessing, which would also correspond to 6tph rather than 11tph irl, which should give a core interval of 5 minutes.
A few probabilities: I would imagine TFL had more to do with not walking down the tunnels than "it would be boring and dark". I can see how a few easter eggs would be possible by walking through the tunnels, but would imagine TFL having kittens at the thought of it IRL The services are likely NOT to just be full length runs. They said the problem was not being able to port redundant services out as they do on other lines and I can see that being a big issue I would agree with you, but then where else do you get 25 stations within 14 miles, all of them different (the below ground ones especially with different tiling and signage) and the challenge of stopping precisely at each station every time? When they release the expanded timetable I would also imagine that even under normal operations these units will be running on yellows or "just green" a lot of the time. Depends on what you're interested in I guess
With only 9 trains, the surface section would look very dead otherwise, in the tunnels it's less noticeable that services are missing. If they're really clever, they can allocate platform 3 at Elephant for Harrow services and 4 for Queens Park services, that's the biggest bottleneck on the route (when the 20 train service mode comes in)
Drive through some sections in Yorkshire or Scotland if you want "dead" Personally I agree with what they've done else the creation of the assets for some AI on a route not actually in game would probably have made this route not possible at all. Until they build up an asset base this is going to be how things go generally for the sim
On the one hand... Longo, the day you're not disappointed, I'll throw a party. On the other hand... Nope, got nothing for you here. That, is not a legitimate screenshot, nor should it have been described as such. It lives in the same category as the three trains sat in front of a stripy background - it's "key art". If we've inferred that it's in game anywhere, point me that way and I'll get a disclaimer added.
It was in our answers to cover stations, but might not have stood out on the stream. You can cross between functional areas of the track (moving between platforms using passenger routes) , but full station exploration isn't included.
"Key Art" interspersed with screenshots from the video, so it could be easily confused, but someone has already kindly pointed out that it is the art work that was commissioned for the route. As for implying it's the same as the three trains sat in front of a stripy background, that just BS. Nobody would believe that to be an actual game screenshot.
I feel alone in the opinion that I'm really excited for this route. The Bakerloo line is my favourite Underground line. I have a lot of happy childhood memories associated with it, and I still have an immense fondness for it to this day, so I'm ecstatic to see it added to the game.
I can assure you that you are not alone, and many others are optimistic too. The game has its ups and downs, but overall it promises to be a good game.
You are not alone. Just as Sam usually say most happy users are silent. My favourite line is the Metropolitan as the air quality is so much better on it. Heat, pollution, everything. I'm very excited about the Bakerloo line though.
