30/40 miles scratches the itch but still leaves me and I would think many others wanting more from a route, I would sooner less routes but longer routes and would be prepared to pay more for longer routes, have DTG ever surveyed the community to see if they would sooner fewer but longer routes and would be willing to pay more as they would obviously take longer to make
There've been loads of such surveys on this site, all ending in the response "Yes we would wait longer and pay more", but financial pressures mean that DTG have a timetable (a flywheel if you will) that means they need fresh injections of cash every so often, hence the release of DLC as it is.
I don't particularly, considering the amount of work that goes into a route which is hundreds of square miles done in such a way that you can view it at 100 miles an hour or 0 miles an hour
I think the aim is to make longer routes but keep the price at £25. Above that, sales would start to drop significantly. Having fewer routes would probably end up reducing the number of total players as well, as there would be less variety due to a limited choice of content. There have been surveys in the past asking questions like this. There are probably graphs knocking around the Dovetail office showing what price people are generally prepared to pay for content of any length. I’ve a feeling more variety and better quality is more likely to attract the most new customers and keep current players interested in buying more content than longer routes would. There are a lot of hardcore train simmers that want to be able to drive one service for 2.5 hours but I guess there will be a lot more players who are happy to drive a train for around 40 minutes to an hour per session.
As we've said a few times now, length is not the issue, complexity is. A 500 mile route with 2 stations and a cactus for decoration is pretty straightforward, a freight yard is not. That 500 mile route might give you a 4+ hour scenario to cover but not a lot would happen along the way. Meanwhile a 10 mile section might only take 30 minutes, but you'll encounter a lot more while you do it. There's a balancing act to be done between complexity and distance for the sake of distance. So far we've focused on gameplay above all else.
It's both okay for me, but I find more importance in a full-length route. This obviously can't be possible with a high-speed route since it would be too long, but something like MSB, where you can drive a regional train from here to there without having to leave the train, because a virtual colleague takes it over to a further destination...THAT would be great and tbh I would be happy with a small regional line with a cool, modern train. The rest can be AI-driven as long as there is enough traffic like an ICE or IC when passing main lines or S-Bahn and regional trains when driving a side line.
I'm not against longer routes, however I do enjoy routes where I can drive the length of it in around 40 minutes like TVL or ECW. If it's shorter in length but has lots of graphical detail and quite a bit of variety traction wise I'm happy that. I'd probably struggle to regularly drive a route that took a couple of hours end to end in amongst work, family and general life. I think TVL was going the right way in having a steady stream of additional locomotives added to keep it interesting.
That is probably less of a problem of complexity than that I have no real idea what constitutes a good routing. Take RSN as an example. Why only to Finnentrop and not to Siegen, which would make the route more complete. BTW in the train simulator there is the route from Hagen to Siegen. Or RRO why only from Hagen to Wuppertal Elberfeld in the middle of the city and not to Wuppertal Vohwinkel. Which would then only be 3 more stations, but would make the route more meaningful. Or all the way to Düsseldorf, which is a little over 1 hour's drive. Or HRR would make more sense and fun from Dortmund to Düsseldorf than simply ending the route in the middle (Duisburg).
The Bakerloo Line with 25 stations in 14 miles would be a good example of what you mean, My post about being excited for the Bakerloo line shows that it’s not just about distance for me but Reading to Bristol from Paddington would be an awesome enhancement for example
This is a good point. DTG shouldn’t just make long routes for the sake of it and they might not be as fun as shorter routes with more complex operations. But some of the choices have been weird as you say. Like for example, why make East Coastway end at Eastbourne when all the trains go to Hastings/Ore? That would have been a more logical endpoint as well as a very scenic run along the coast.
There's an easy argument to be made for full routes, most definitely. It's not something we can rule in or out right now as we're as keen as you are to do really interesting and rewarding routes, but the balancing act between length and function is always going to be present.
People who want to buy a simulator like TSW have complex, exciting and challenging experiences when they play, otherwise they could install a mobile game like Train Fever on their smartphone if they want it to be simple and short. you don't watch a movie and turn it off 5 minutes before the big showdown, because that's how TSW feels on some tracks. Something is missing.
they did in an q&a. they said the only time the community would pay for more is if the production cost goes up.
i remember the answer to this in the Bakerloo q&a i think. only time the price would go up is if the production cost would go up. and a shorter route with alot to do in it is more interesting than a longer one with nothing to do in it.
For me an ideal route takes 40-70 minutes to complete. But not in the way West Somerset route is. It is fine for maybe 5 runs, but then it is boring. I go back every now and then to play one run, but just looking at the scenery. My ideal DLC would be like Trans Pennine but e.g. including branch line to Wakefield and another one. Ideally non-terminus branch lines. So it would give many different gameplays, and would feel like a complex network. I don't even mind to buy it in multiple DLCs. Then add more locos and populate a world. So I don't mind if the whole line is not included, but driving back-and-forth on the same route (short or long) is less interested. I think have a sprawl of lines connected. Different era, sure. Keep them in one location (e.g. 80's in north of England), modern (south of Eng, Germany), long and heavy for USA, underground for London. Once one area is kind of complete then add more areas with a different theme. This was the size and completeness wouldn't matter much.
One idea could be to connect existing routes with each other, if possible. E.g. the German Ruhr / Rhine routes. You could do that with another DLC, with additional services, etc., so that you can then drive the whole route. That would also cost, if it would be less work for DTG and those who wish it would then have a long journey. It would, of course, require that you already have all the DLC included. Maybe it would only be interesting as a special.
That would be more work. It's not just connecting the two routes and then voila everything works fine. They would have to re-do the entire timetable since those trains that flew off to portals would have to be accounted for and factored in to the new extended areas. The timetable would be more complex since there are more trains roaming the network at a single point in time, and that brings all sorts of new challenges. If it was as easy as you say it was, we probably would have seen an updated LIRR timetable instead of the coronavirus timetable that we have now, not to mention Bakerloo Line at release also having a coronavirus timetable at launch.
Same. While the route length has been disappointing on occasion, what has really bothered me is a lack of traffic in many of the timetables modes and it really kill some the atmosphere. LIRR is ridiculously dead with under 200 services considering it’s one of the busiest railroads in the world. NEC and GWE isn’t much better. East Coastway is good but still missing some real li services. The Bakerloo line will also feel dead until the 450 service timetable comes in. I understand that adding services isn’t simply a case of copy and paste but I feel more dev time should be dedicated to this.
It’s not the length, it’s not the size, it’s how many times you can make it... oh wait. That’s something else entirely.
I just like going from the start to the end of a route. Thats why i'm so looking forward to Bakerloo. I wan't to get on my train and be able to stay on it all day if i want going up and down the line. Nothing more depressing in the game than alight here. Then have to stand there and watch an AI driver dissapear over the horizon with my train. I'd definately pay more to go the full length of the route.
Hi Sam, I understand the reasoning behind creating a route with less mileage but a more interesting ride. That makes sense for the most part, but given the name of the game, this is a sim and not every route IRL is interesting to look at and a challenge to drive. It would be nice to drive a long distance with not much else to do other than adjust the speed and acknowledge warning signals etc... Flight Simulator players doesn’t have an issue with 3/4+ hour long flights with not much to do in-between take-off and landing. I watch people stream 8+ hour long hauls, the appeal is there for longer journeys, people want realism in their simulator of choice and at the moment the long journey fans are missing out. I hope we’ll see longer routes sooner rather than later, we’re not expecting every route to be long or full length, like you said, there’s a balancing act you need to do. I guess shorter more interesting routes are the most economical at this moment in time and will be for the foreseeable given recent news.
I think the best way to solve this is to introduce a long route in sections so that when all DLC are purchased over time you do end up with a long route. Perfect the joining of routes and the possibilities are endless. They could start with RRO/RSN to learn what needs to be done etc and perfect the process. With scenario planner, no new timetables necessarily have to be built for RRO/RSN but joining the route would be interesting gameplay wise.
I wouldn't pay more for the longer routes. It's not about length but playability. For example, HRR and RRO a great routes with lot of diversity and pretty busy. Somewhat, East Coastway is great too. So are NTP and MSB. The length is not everything folks. What matters is playability.
You can still have longer routes that are very playable, playability is not an exclusive quality just to shorter routes only
Especially with RRO, I have to contradict you, the route doesn't really offer much and is still way too short. Especially with freight or express trains, the playability and variety is very limited. With a Regional Express you only have 20 minutes to travel and not much more with a freight train. If RRO were to extend from Hagen to Düsseldorf, the travel time would almost double with 44 minutes and you would have 2 more stations. It would be similar with the S-Bahn, here too the travel time and the number of stations would double. in addition, you could then use more moves that would also increase the variety and playability. Like the S-Bahn S9 from Hagen to Haltern am See, which you could then play from Hagen to Wuppertal Vohwinkel.
To be honest. I don’t mind. As long as there are things to do, and you could plan for extra DLC, then I am not fussed. I am just interested in other signalling systems, different trains, and different stations and buildings. I put a suggestion of Aalborg to Aarhus because it is different to the other routes in terms of signalling, type of trains and buildings etc. But also because there are many things that could be added to it. If when the DLC is added, it creates more scenarios and bits and bobs, I don’t mind.
I would pay for route extensions! A 50 mile route with a 40 mile extension would be 90 miles of amazing and they would already have a lot of the assets which would save time.
[QUOTE = "DTG-Protagonist, Beitrag: 158177, Mitglied: 18967"] Es gibt definitiv ein einfaches Argument für vollständige Routen. Es ist nicht etwas, das wir jetzt ein- oder ausschließen können, da wir genauso daran interessiert sind wie Sie, wirklich interessante und lohnende Routen zu fahren, aber der Spagat zwischen Länge und Funktion wird immer vorhanden sein. [/ QUOTE] Ich lese schon sehr lange mit, bei diesen Diskussionen. Wäre auch die Strecke bei der Rapid Bahn, Dessau bis Leipzig Connewitz (Ausgeschildert geht es bis Magdeburg). Ist da was geplant, man könnte diese auch weiter Richtung Süden ausbauen bis Chemnitz. Vielleicht kann man in dieser Art Strecken komplettieren und für jede Erweiterung würde ich auch gerne bezahlen, denn klar muß uns auch sein, daß jede Strecken Erweiterung Geld und Zeit kostet. Auf jeden Fall freu ich mich schon riesig auf den 20.08.20 und kann es kaum erwarten. Ich hoffe man kann TSW 2 auch auf der PS5 spielen, oder?
Peter, Deutsch lesen kann hier nicht jeder, gemäß Forenregeln sollen alle Posts in Englisch sein! Peter, not everybody can read German here, according to forum rules all posts shall be in English!