Trying To Be Nice

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by FatClemenza, Aug 4, 2020.

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  1. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

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    I cannot get my head around the suggestion that giving your customers more choice is a bad thing.
     
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  2. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I know, exactly, there is some warped logic going on or I have just arrived from planet Zog!

    You can guarantee that if there were only 20 items of DLC available for the sim the very same people would be angrily going on about how DTG had abandoned the sim and wasn't providing variety and interest and were only interested in casual gamers who purchased it and fired it up a few times!

    Basically damned if you do and damned if you don't
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
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  3. pinxtonpaws

    pinxtonpaws Guest

    That's not entirely true. I have no interest in the high speed train thingy and very little interest in the Bakerloo line so if I want to bring my preserved collection forward and/or purchase a future DLC then I will have no choice but to purchase both those routes. Unless of course DTG are going to bring out a free (empty) version of TSW2 so that the "choice" of what you want to purchase remains in place.
     
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  4. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes it is, we might be in the wrong section but we have been discussing the large amount of DLC available for TS1. If you want to get started with TS1 you have to purchase the game which may include routes you don't want that has always been the case, that is not the point though.

    With TSW2 you get three routes for the price for one. You can also wait for a sale. You can decide to purchase TSW2 or not, you have a choice, it isn't compulsory, you decide whether you want to spend £24.99 to get your preserved collection into TSW2, no one is forcing you to do anything. They work without it so it isn't necessary, are the extra's worth £24.99.

    It is hardly anything like the discussion we have been having, challenging those who are making out that TS1 is one of the most expensive due to the amount of DLC, of which, none is a compulsory purchase. No doubt in future years they will be saying similar about TSW.

    It is another stick to beat DTG with in my opinion.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
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  5. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    At no point I said I hate Train Simulator. If you actually read what I said, I said that Train Simulator 2020 is better than TSW and TSW2
     
  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I already have CSX Heavy Haul so if I want the new features for CSX Heavy Haul I have to buy tsw2 which I will since TSW2020 won't get anymore support because dtg can't just upgrade tsw2020. It's funny that scs which is a small company can bring graphical updates, make their original maps larger and update the physics for free in American Truck Simulator and Euro Truck Simulator and yet dtg couldn't do that to tsw2020 and keep advertising tsw2 as a new game when it's really just a updated game with features that should've been added in tsw2020. I call that a dirty business practice but it's typical of Dovetail Games
     
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  7. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Wait for it!
    • It's only £24.99 for three new routes.
    • No one is forcing you to buy it.
    • It's not an update it's a new game.
    • Just be grateful DTG are listening to the community.
    I think that's the majority of the DTG supporters handbook. Apologies if I've missed anything.
     
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  8. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Here's why it's not a new game

    1. Same Graphical engine but updated physics engine which they could've done with TSW2020 like Codemasters did with F1 2019 when they updated the physics and handling a couple of months after the game released. Even Sam admitted himself that this all could've been an update to tsw2020 so if the Community Manager is saying that it could've been in a update, it's not a new game.

    2. Now unless you're on console Your Only getting two new routes which is the German High Speed route and London Underground. Sand Patch Grade is just an update to CSX Heavy Haul but instead of updating it for tsw2020 like people wanted, DTG had to be greedy and ask for $30 to basically rebuy CSX Heavy Haul which they've could've updated in tsw2020 but chose not too for some silly reason so they pretty much ignored their PC customers. Only a 3 year old will think that tsw2 is a new game unless we have 3 year olds in this forum
     
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  9. fanta1682002

    fanta1682002 Well-Known Member

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    yes me too
     
  10. KyleL

    KyleL Well-Known Member

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    I really wanted SPG for console but why not make it the base route in the game & give us another american route
     
  11. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Apologies if we don't all share your anger and bitterness!
     
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  12. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    agree are we not allowed to like it and defend DTG on things and are we only allowed to be critical
     
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  13. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I don't believe there is anything in my post to suggest that I am in any way angry or bitter.

    My post is purely the most often used retorts to anyone who dares to say anything negative or critical of DTG or TSW2 and therefore is intended to save you all the time you would be wasting in replying to such negativity.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
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  14. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    Are we not allowed to dislike it and criticise DTG on things and are we only allowed to be fanatical.
     
  15. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    okay fair enough i guess i just didn't like how you used what you call the DTG supporters handbook i think that wasn't needed in the topic unless you want to annoy someone or start an argument which i for one don't want
     
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  16. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    People who criticize dtg like myself aren't angry or bitter. Do you think all negative reviews are from angry people.
     
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  17. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    Constructive criticism is worth its weight in gold. Only people who truly care and are passionate about a product will generally take the time to provide such feedback. DTG want to make the best product they can. They want happy customers. And they are listening to the community. That doesn’t make people angry or bitter.
     
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  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I criticise DTG, so do many others. I try and be balanced. There are some who never or very rarely have a good thing to say about DTG and just come up with angry rants. You read some peoples posts and you would think that there is nothing good about TSW. There are clearly some who don't want to read anything positive. I was told by someone a long time ago that the forums were for complaints!
     
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  19. Nick_Brad

    Nick_Brad Member

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    I think DTG are making all the right noises right now, it sounds like there is real willingness to listen and make changes. I know at least one previous Community Manager didn't stick with the job very long as he was hamstrung by his inability to give much good news or put out any of the negative feedback fires.

    Payday for me is the 20th and so I shalln't be able to take advantage of the pre-order price and I am not willing to pay full price for what will be for me, 1 new useful route and a bunch of features to be implemented after release, so I shall sit back and wait to see these features actually implemented first, which of course is my choice to make, just as everyone reading this has the same option to either buy or not buy.

    As for the amount/cost of dlc for TS1, yes there is an awful lot, but all of it was requested by some people at some point I am sure and it was never intended for anyone to own the complete collection. I doubt that there is enough time in this life to actually play all of the dlc properly, even if you could afford it.

    Edited due to clearing up my incorrect assumption/information.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
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  20. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Great bullet points! Three routes for $30 seems like a great price, and you get your preserved collection and the updated Unreal engine that makes it look better all around and adds things like adhesion physics and weight physics. The great news is you can still play your routes just as you did on TSW2020 if you don’t want to buy TSW2. A new game means a better foundation to build upon and DTG have been doing a much better job at communicating since they recognized that was an issue. I agree 100% with your post Longo!
     
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  21. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I believe by "some people" you are most likely referring to me, and before anyone retorts with "if the cap fits", said cap is squarely seated.

    If there is something to praise, I will and have praised it. I have praised Sam's approach to the Community Manager role. I have stated that £24.99 is a good price point for 2 all new routes. I have also praised DTG for the delay of the release to implement more integration of the older routes which they have deemed to call the "Preserved Collection".

    I have been critical and remain critical of DTG's claim that TSW2 is a brand new game. At the moment it's an engine update at best of the core game.

    I have also been critical of the fact that DTG claimed that the older DLC's were incompatible with TSW2, but 6 weeks ago they decided that by delaying the game by a month meant that that incompatibility has all but disappeared now they had given themselves more time. Now, all of you who were calling me and others who were critical "toxic" and "haters" are now benefitting from that criticism.

    I am not angry or bitter towards DTG as many of you seem to believe. But I do believe that they can do better and the community as a whole should not allow them the opportunity to be mediocre, which is what TSW2 is at the moment.
     
    Last edited: Aug 15, 2020
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  22. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

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    Longo, I give up, this is my last comment, How do you come to the conclusion that TSW2 is mediocre, have you got a copy?.
     
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  23. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    From looking at the announced features and watching the streams. So I assume, I'm using exactly the same sources as those in the community who are expressing their opinion of how wonderful TSW2 is. However, those people don't seem to have to constantly justify why they think it's great.
     
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  24. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I read the positives and negatives. You can't judge people for being so critical of the game because the people who criticize the game so hard are the ones that are passionate and want to have a overall better product. You may think tsw2 is good all round, that's fine but you shouldn't call people who judge the game angry people mate
     
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  25. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    This is my last word on this subject. However some people need to read posts properly. I never said all people who judge the game are angry, I was referring to some peoples constant angry rants, which aren't balanced. Most contributors are constructive. I wasn't picking anyone out in particular.

    I am very passionate about TSW and train simulators in general, just because I don't post angry rants ad-infinitum doesn't mean I am not passionate.

    However we have seen recently some quite unpleasant comments in posts and offensive and bordering on bullying memes, towards some members who are clearly passionate and in the "glass half full" camp, those are the signs of anger I would argue.

    People should be able to post their views from whatever viewpoint they take, however in my opinion angry rants and the use of emotive terms like "rip-off" and "liars" towards DTG aren't helpful and are divisive.

    I think we all would agree there are things which could be improved, I have several gripes, but things certainly aren't the disaster some new visitors to the forum would think reading some of the posts on here, certainly not as far as I am concerned.
     
    Last edited: Aug 16, 2020
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  26. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    totally agree
     
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  27. longo239

    longo239 Well-Known Member

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    I believe that you did reply to one of my earlier posts as below.
    Nobody is questioning your passion, however I do not recall seeing you ever make a critical or negative post regarding anything other than people who are critical of DTG or it's products.
    Again as I believe this to be directed at me, I admit that maybe in hindsight, those posts were not the best responses. However, I assure you that there was no anger involved whatsoever, more devilment, mischief and maybe a touch of frustration with those they were directed at.
    This is almost a generic comment made by those who are "glass half full" but they are just as quick to try and "shout down" those who disagree with them.
    I don't recall anyone claiming that it's a disaster, just people who are not prepared to accept mediocre.
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't say the forums are a disaster. There are just people who don't want a poor quality product that post negative things of the game in the forum
     
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  29. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    Okay, I think we've been around the introspection houses enough here.

    Suffice to say that those who want to be critical of the game and that way it is made are every bit as welcome as those who want to be positive. Some people naturally lean toward the far end of positivity or negativity but they are in the minority. Most of the users of this forum are every bit as able to see promising and disappointing in equal measure.
     
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