Trains On Different Routes

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by 749006, Aug 25, 2020.

  1. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I asked Matt P. at the Warley Model show, last November I think, why we could not run what we owned on the routes we owned and I was told it would not be prototypical.

    So now we have a German ICE3 running on the East Coastway line from Brighton to somewhere east as Colonel Failure did not know the map

    Why do DTG tell us one thing and then do something different?

    Peter
     
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  2. CC Johnson

    CC Johnson Active Member

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    They changed their opinion only a few weeks ago because of player feedback. Which is a very good thing. And with the new transparency policy, you really get the feeling they are listening. Hope they can keep that up.
     
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  3. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    Since when DTG takes care of players feedbacks ? :D
     
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  4. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

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    you would be surprised by how changeable the gaming industry can be many things can change in months for example halo showed of a demo and now it's delayed cyberpunk 2077 well i don't need to count how many times it's been delayed. Star citizen is a good example of how a game in development can change from changing game engines and having a stupid lawsuit mid way through development. with regards to when do DTG takes care of players feedback would be why TSW 2 was delayed many people weren't happy with what was happening with old routes ect so they delayed it to add what the players wanted
     
  5. CC Johnson

    CC Johnson Active Member

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    Yeah, it's new (or at least that they tell us), but for now it looks promising ;)
     
  6. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    What they did is not allow you to place something that does not belong in a route by default, which is what most rail fans will want and why it was that way in TSW1. If you still insist that you don't care, they added a new option that allows you to place anything anywhere. So they found a way to make everyone happy that maybe they did not think about at the time or was not possible with the TSW1 code.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  7. CC Johnson

    CC Johnson Active Member

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    That's not correct. That's the current state.
    But it wasn't planned that way. Preserved DLCs, routes as well as rolling stock, were not supposed to work with or in the scenario designer.
    People cried out. They listened. Pushed the release a few weeks to add that in.
     
  8. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    I think everything I wrote is correct. It's OK if you want to add that they added the functionality in the last minute, but nothing I said was not true.
     
    Last edited: Aug 25, 2020
  9. TheShotte

    TheShotte Well-Known Member

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    What he said was correct, I'm not sure if you read it, what you said is also correct, but off topic. Forget about Preserved Collection, we're talking about using trains on routes they weren't meant for, for example - running ICE-3M on Sands Patch Grade by means of enabling the "Off the Rails" mode in your Scenario Planner service. Yes, people complained that Scenario Planner won't be available on Preserved Collection routes, so they extended the release date and added this functionality, but the "Off the Rails" mode had nothing to do with this.
     
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  10. CC Johnson

    CC Johnson Active Member

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    I apologize and retract. Seems like I read that wrong.
     
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  11. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    So a rail fan that has the DB 185 or DB 146 would not to run those trains on all DB routes as they do in real life?
    Why not?

    It was a shame that a 3rd party patch had to be created to allow us to run what we owned where we wanted with TSW1 code

    Peter
     
  12. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    Another point is that this relates to scenario planner. Matt P presumably wasn't talking about scenario planner when he made those comments.
    The aim I think is still for timetable mode to be broadly prototypical, and that's probably a good thing.
    Scenario Planner is more flexible, and that's also a good thing.
    So although its good for DTG to listen to feedback (and I think that they have been recently), I don't see any contradiction in Matt's comments.
     
  13. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    You can do it in the scenario editor. IIRC, you can change units in some of the timetable services too, but it has some restrictions (you can't substitute a unit for another that is longer). Also you can't do it in all the routes, probably because it was not made for it when it released and new tech does not translate automatically to older DLCs unless it is a core feature.

    The good news is I think adding locos to substitution lists is something that is easy enough for the new "preserved content" team to do.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
  14. TheShotte

    TheShotte Well-Known Member

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    The thing is - with TSW2020, DTG followed "rules" as to which trains go on what route, which is why they did things the way they did. Locomotives had to be correct in era, route, location, etc. That means you couldn't use a modern day loco on a route representation of like 1980's, or if it was a different operator, etc. Throughout the lifespan of TSW, they realized fans want freedom, and so they gave us Scenario Planner and "Off the Rails".
     
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  15. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    In TSW2 not TSW1
    All the DB locos and units released are set in the same era so there should have been no reason for the trains to have been available on every DB Route they made.

    But it took somebody from the Czech republic to create a patch that we could use in TSW1

    Why DTG could not have done that I do not know.

    Peter
     
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  16. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Yes, in TSW2 because as well all know, there is no scenario designer in TSW1.

    In TSW1 you can only use your locos in some routes (even if it would be realistic to have them in more) because DTG was not adding new features to old DLC in TSW1, so they started adding new services with locos from other DLCs to the newer routes in the game but did not go back to all the previous DLCs to do the same.

    Fortunately, it seems we will get a "preserved content" team that can do things like that in TSW2.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
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  17. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    It would be helpful if you read my post about the mod being available in TSW1 regarding stock on other routes
    "it took somebody from the Czech republic to create a patch that we could use in TSW1"

    TSW_Peter H_1577127626_00.png
    Class 33 on Tees Valley

    TSW_Peter H_1577282074_00.png
    DB BR182 on Wuppertal - Hagen

    TSW_Peter H_1578232253_00a.jpg
    Class 45 on GWR

    Same Scenarios but with different Motive Power - something which was asked for in TSW1
    Now we can have it in TSW 2 if we pay ANOTHER £24.99 and create our own Scenarios

    Peter
     
  18. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Since June 9th when they announced TSW2, they stated they were trying to be more transparent and would listen to feedback from the community. They have been doing a great job since then so I believe it will stay this way and everyone will be happier!
     
  19. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    I'm sorry but I can't read every thread and even if I do read them, I can't remember them all. They are too many. Still, I can't see where this thread is going. DTG just said they are making a team to add small improvements like this to older routes. Why not give them 2 - 3 months? Maybe they will add the loco substitution to preserved routes so you don't need to apply any patch anymore.
     
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  20. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    But you found time to reply to the thread you did not read in post #16

    I started the thread as a comment about DTG not letting us what we owned on the routes we owned.
    Now they have gone totally opposite direction and soon you can run what you want where you want
    An SD40-2 on the East Coastway line anyone?
     
  21. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    This is what I said:
    Cutting out the part that is not convenient for you on an statement is not nice.

    TBH, it was difficult to know what you were not happy about in your first post. At first I thought it was DTG said one thing (not allowing your purchased DLC to be used in any route because it was not prototypical) and then doing another (allowing anything in the scenario designer "off-rails").

    Now it seems you would like to be able to use any stock that could potentially be in a route to be used in that route, even if you would usually not see it there in real life (which is understandable) but at the same time you are complaining about DTG allowing anything anywhere (as if it was something they are adding to the service timetables and not something they allow in the scenario designer). That's twisting reality way too much IMHO.
     
  22. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    Remember when MSB was released for TSW? That was a big moment to be a TSW fan as that is the route that first brought us the use German locomotives from other routes. It was exciting to be able to use our German locomotives from other routes and use them for services on MSB. From that moment on I think everyone in the TSW community were excited to see what locomotives and routes would be released that would be usable on other routes and it definitely was a big plus when there was something that could be substituted out and towards the end of the TSW content, I would say it was one of the more frequently asked questions. With TSW2 we get what we did then but now we have the option to run any locomotives on any route! What a great feature honestly and I’m glad DTG put it into TSW2.
     
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  23. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I was not happy that DTG would not let us use the trains we had purchased on any route
    The reason given is that it was not correct to real life and yes, a GWR HST from Victoria to Leeds or a Class 33 on the Tyne Valley is not correct. But the Class 47 or the Class 52 would have been correct on GWR - a preserved Class 52 has done numerous trips from Paddington in recent years.

    In TSW2 you will be able to run any train on any route even if it is Not Correct and that is OK?
    Running the ICE3 on a Brighton - Newhaven Run is rubbish - but this is what DTG are showing us
    In TS2020 I cannot run the ICE3 on London to Brighton as it could foul a train on the adjacent line
    My comment on using a SD40-2 on the line was a bit of sarcasm

    Sorry for a part quote but I got the relevant section
    I could not find a way to run the BR182 on the MSB or the BR442
    There were some odd runs to use trains from the Hagen - Siegen route but none from the Nurnberg S-Bahn
    And the BR 182 is a stand alone pack not included in the S-Bahn route so why not use it on any DB route?

    My irritation with DTG is having supported them by buying TSW1 and 13 Add-ons I now have to pay again if I wish to keep using TSW because TSW1 won't be updated and no more content will be released.

    And if you told the players of TS2020 that the HST that came with GWR could only be used on that route you would have a riot.

    Peter
     
  24. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

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    There definitely are certain instances where you couldn’t substitute another locomotive/route with the other. It didn’t really matter about the country it was from but was more based on if the locomotives actual run on the route in real life. So they have some restrictions to that. I do understand your frustration Peter, as someone who owns 23 dlc for TSW I was a little worried too. After paying the $30 for TSW2 I couldn’t be happier. Not only do I get to bring all of my TSW content over (except NEC route and locos) but I actually get to use it with the TSW2 content. Being able to take the MP15 on Sandpatch or being able to use the DB422 on the Köln route is great. The Bakerloo line, the Köln route and Sandpatch are fantastic routes, not to mention the adhesion physics really make a big difference and add variables to driving. That alone is worth the $30 but the Unreal engine upgrades and Scenario editor make this a way better platform to have your TSW collection on. I believe also recently in a stream they talked about a new team at DTG that look at the older and already released content and are going to listen to the community to upgrade or fix any of the previously released and make sure content across TSW2 is quality and not just the newest routes released. Keep in mind that they will be doing this in TSW2, it’s worth it Peter.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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  25. Inkar

    Inkar Well-Known Member

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    Now we are getting somewhere. So, lets try to make a proposal out of this that can make everyone happy:

    We want to be able to use the DLC locos / trains that we own in the routes that own while playing timetable services when it is appropriate:
    1. If the DLC loco / train can be usually seen doing those services in real life, add them in the same way it has been done lately in TSW1.
    2. If it would be rare to see the loco / train in the route but still fits the country (or location) and time period (there would be a chance to see it there in real life even if it is in an special day) then add an option to have those substitutions done anyway.

    PS: I understand your frustration about having to pay again if you do not like the new routes. TBH, I feel like a free upgrade to TSW2 without the new routes should be available for people in your case. You would still lose NEC if you have it, but at least it would give you some options.
     
    Last edited: Aug 27, 2020
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