PlayStation Br Heavy Freight Pack - Br Class 40 Air Brake Goods Vs. Vacuum Brake Goods

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Sashco, Sep 13, 2020.

  1. Sashco

    Sashco Member

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    Hi everyone,

    I've read myself up on these two different breaking systems and that Vacuum brakes are no longer in use as the reaction time is much slower and the pressure on the brakes is weaker than what is achievable with Air Brakes. That's all good, BUT...

    My issue is that when doing Loaded Oil/Heavy Loaded Oil scenarios I am unable to use Air Breaks - Goods. If I attempt to get the train moving with Air Breaks - Goods applied the whole train screeches due to breakes obviously exerting pressure on the wheels making the train move no more than 16 mph at max.

    Using Air Breaks - Goods on empty freight seems to work fine.

    Why is this? I thought the only difference between the two systems is respons time and Air Breaks being much easier to use.

    Thanks!
     
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  2. Northerner

    Northerner Well-Known Member

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    You won't be able to switch to air braked as the wagons will be vacuum braked only. On vacuum braked wagons, the vacuum keeps the brakes off, but on air braked wagons, the high air pressure keeps the brakes off. Therefore when you switch to air braked you're actually just creating a high pressure to get the brakes off, which is the opposite to what is actually needed to release the brakes.

    I can't see a reason why air brakes would work on empty wagons. Are you sure you're actually releasing the brakes and not just dragging the wagons with the brakes still on, which would not be possible with loaded wagons.
     
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  3. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    These oil wagons are equipped with a vacuum-brakes.

    EDIT

    Better that has to be double checked :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Sep 14, 2020
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  4. Sashco

    Sashco Member

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    Hmmm...I may have been totally unaware, but was pretty sure I switched the brakes to Air Breaks - Goods when hauling empty oil wagons. I'll do another run tomorrow and see if I wasn't paying attention while setting the break settings.
     
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  5. septafan

    septafan Active Member

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    The oil wagons are air brakes only, the vans are vacuum brakes freight wise on NTP. Set the brakes to air goods with the oil cars. Also folks it’s *Brakes* not Breaks. :)
     
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  6. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    haha I was 100% sure they are 'vacuum', but I supposed U checked this :D
     
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  7. Sashco

    Sashco Member

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    Lmao, it's the auto-correct setting "breaks" instead of brakes! Haha...

    Okey, I am now hauling 7E60 Manchester - Huddersfield Empty Oil, and it seems I was initially wrong.

    I have to set the brake setting to Vacuum, any other setting will make the brakes squeal.

    I'll try Air Brakes - Goods on newspaper/freight wagons.
     
  8. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The Oil tankers are TEA wagons, the A at the end signifies that they are air braked.

    The Class 40 can be very fussy when you are changing the brake mode. If you go from Air Passenger to Air Goods, but pass through the vacuum brake settings as you do so, you can end up with some vacuum brakes applied on the loco. I always make sure that the loco is not coupled to any wagons when changing brake modes as this appears to help.

    As far as I recall for most services you don’t have to set the brake mode before setting off as it’s already set appropriately but there could be a couple where it’s not already set correctly, I’m not sure. The oil tankers are air braked, the vans are vacuum braked.
     
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  9. Slemcer

    Slemcer Well-Known Member

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    I remember quite well that those services with vans are not set up correctly. You'll have to switch the setting to vacuum brakes.
    During my first runs I didn't find the lever until I was lectured to first walk to the correct end of the loco.
     
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  10. Sashco

    Sashco Member

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    Hmm, that's very interesting! Every single time I initiate a service where there is freight of some sort involved, the brake setting in the loco is preset for Air Brakes - Passanger.

    Trying to get the loco going with this setting while hauling Freight it will hardly move depending on whether the haul is heavy or not.

    The only thing that allows me to move oil wagons seems to be Vaccume Brakes - Goods.

    I am going to play around with the settings a bit and see what results I get. This got me interested. :)
     
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  11. Sashco

    Sashco Member

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    Yeah, same case here! Every freight service needs manual brake settings to be adjusted.
     
  12. Sashco

    Sashco Member

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    Okey, have initiated 7M54 Leeds - Manchester Empty Oil, I made sure to move the brake setting from Air Brakes - Passagenger to Air Brakes - Goods without going via Vacuum settings.

    Also went out to check the wagons, Sats TEA.

    Set the settings to Air Brakes - Goods and everything operates as should! Great!

    Seems stujoys assumption of switching to air brakes via vacuum brakes indd affects the brake system!

    But wait, if the wagons indd are set to fit Air Brakes, why are they also compatible with Vacuum system?
     
    Last edited: Sep 14, 2020
  13. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I don’t know how you got it to work with vacuum brakes as well. Seems very odd. I might have to try that out at some point and see what happens for myself. I’m happy I could help though.
     
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  14. DominusEdwardius

    DominusEdwardius Well-Known Member

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    The locomotive has a controlling air brake system which is always in use, the vacuum brake is slave to the air brake when in use. As such you can control the air braked wagons in vacuum since the air pipes will still be connected since the vacuum pipes cannot be connected (since the TEA ain't got none!).

    Moving the brake selector to vacuum does two things, one it switches in the exhausters to create a vacuum, and the second one of the compressors is cut out. If you do this with the reverser in direction or engine only the exhausters will immediately start up and draw a vacuum on the loco, then when you switch back to air, the vacuum brake pipe will leak on over time. When you create a vacuum you also create the vacuum chamber which switches the locomotives brake distributor to work on vacuum. When the vacuum brake leaks on as a result of cutting out the exhausters, the brake will stick on which gives the illusion of requiring to use vacuum settings. To release this you will need to open the vacuum release valve, its usually somewhere on the secondman's side of the cab.

    Difference between goods and passenger is purely timing based. Air Pass will apply the brake within about 3-5 seconds and release in about 9-12 seconds, Air Goods will apply the brake in about 20-28 seconds and release the brake in between 30-45 seconds. Reason for this is to even out the release and application times along the length of the train, with passenger timings on long trains you can apply the brake and have the brake fully applied at the front and barely applied at the back causing quite a large run in shock. Worse the opposite can happen with release with the brake at the front of the train being off and the back still being nearly fully applied which really not a good situation to be in, especially if you apply power as it can cause the couplers to snatch and potentially break.
     
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  15. Sashco

    Sashco Member

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    Well this surely clears a lot! Thanks for taking the time to explain this. I'll have to save this post for reference for later use while using the Class 40 for my remaining services.
     

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