Stainmore, Shap & Eden Valley Route - First Impressions

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by Ardaeshir, Sep 18, 2020.

  1. Ardaeshir

    Ardaeshir Well-Known Member

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    First of all a disclaimer - I'm not in any way affiliated with Steam Sounds Supreme who released this line. This post is not intended as an ad for the route or an attack on it, rather a review and a "first impression" discussion of this payware route.

    The good:

    - You will get a very impressive collection of rolling stock with the line - ex-LMS coaches, Gresley teak coaches, period trucks, tankers, private owner wagons... really anything you want as far as 1950s-60s for this area. I think this is the largest collection of rolling stock that I seen in any single DLC - official or 3rd party. This is really a very strong side of this route. Good job guys!

    - The locos that come with the route, especially the E4 steam loco are well done and interesting.

    - It is good to heave another long 50s/60s period route (over 100 miles it seems). The added bonus is that the far eastern edge of the map includes Barnard Castle, which was the western edge of the Weardale & Teesdale dlc. The two routes make good companion pieces to one another.

    - A lot of the small custom station assets for this route are excellent and help to bring the station as well as the whole end-of-steam period to life.

    - The "faraway" views of the line are very well designed - not busy enough to cause lag, but detailed enough to feel correctly and the distant terrain feels very natural and "organic".


    The bad:
    - The biggest issue I had was that some large areas just next to the track are empty with a single undifferentiated texture over them, giving a somehwat "unfinished" feel to it (see the second and third screenshot to get an idea of what I mean). I understand they were probably meant to represent short-grass pastureland, but I feel it doesn't really work that well as the uniform "single blob" texture creates a jarring effect. I'm not the sort of person that zooms out a lot and complains that things very far away from the tracks lack detail. But in this case, the emptiness is just next to the tracks. Also the Penrith-Kirkby Stephen section suffers a lot less from this problem than the Kirkby Stephen - Castle Barnard section.
    It would bother me less in a freeware route, but I would expect some higher quality textures and/or use of several different textures next to the tracks. This is my only substantial gripe with the map.

    - I had some lag and crashes when trying to run the Quickdrive that came with the route. I can only suspect some piece of rolling stock and/or AI train is the culprit, as running my own "empty" Quickdrives resulted with no issues with the route itself.

    - I've seen a few trees and bushes floating above the ground, between Kirkby Stephen and Barnard Castle section. This happens very infrequently though, maybe 2 times in the whole section from Penrith to Barnard Castle.

    Final verdict: Is it worth buying?
    I'd say it is certainly worth buying as long as you are interested in a British 1950s/60s setting and want to have some good BR, ex-LNER, ex-LMS rolling stock. Personally, I'm quite happy with what I got, despite the issues I mentioned.

    However if you don't care at all for the period/area/rolling stock and you simply want a good looking high-graphics scenic route to drive on, then I think you might be better off buying one of the most recent DTG modern routes.

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    End notes: I ran few trains around Tebay and Oxenholme, then today I ran the whole northwestern section route down from Penrith to Castle Barnard, the screenshots you will see above are from that playthrough. I made it with a class 33 diesel on purpose - a steam engine would probably take too much of my attention and I wanted to be able to concentrate on the route.
    I'll later post some more steam engine screenshots, as well as screenshots from the southwest parts of the map and Tebay.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
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  2. mike370

    mike370 Active Member

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    You mean like the new WCML South (London-Birmingham)! ;) lol

    A great review by the way - gave a really nice flavour of this historic network route. Thank you :)

    I remember looking at the Stainmore, Shap & Eden Valley Route at first release, thinking wow, what a collection of rolling stock included. The route also seemed to include a very impressive mileage, with all sorts of scenario opportunites. Thanks for the reminder, somehow I'd temporarily forgotten it while focusing on the various recent STEAM DLC releases. I forget what it was that put me off at first release- might have been the focus on too many old kettle scenarios. But after your review, I certainly see the possibilities for some great BR Green diesel activities.

    I see what you mean about some of the texturing of wide areas of fields close to the track. I do though sympathise for the authors, because the wide open green pastures do make the actual scenery rather 'empty' and uniform at times. It's the simplicity of the striking green pastures & meadows with stonewalls that makes the real landscape so beautiful. I always thought the RSC Settle-Carlisle captured that sort of feel very well (at least for one of the game's earlier route DLC). It must be very tricky to find the balance - perhaps the Stainmore creation just a little too uniform patterning in some such textures. I actually wouldn''t look too far off that, immediately after hay-time. So I'd be really curious to see what the modelled route looks like across the different seasons.

    I'm going to have to buy it now to found out! :) You've really tempted me to buy it & give it a whirl. I'm glad to hear that overall you've enjoyed the route, and had some good fun - & feel it's great overall value. It certainly includes a lot of content, and a nice wide selection of rolling stock assets. Cheers.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  3. Ardaeshir

    Ardaeshir Well-Known Member

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    Pleasure is all mine.

    Oh if that is what you were worried about then you won't have a problem with the route. It does not come with any diesels included, but if you have some classic BR diesels already then it is going to be easy to design scenarios for them on the route.

    Somehow this didn't strike me as an issue on the Settle-Carlisle map as much as it does here. Maybe its a slightly different texture, or maybe that one was just more busy around the tracks?

    Also, the "faraway vista" views on Stainmore are really amazing. Maybe a solution would be to add some short 3D grass assets to some of the pastureland near the tracks?

    Well, the best I could do is find some June google street view of pastureland from A66 in the vicinity of Bowes (because the Area neared Barnanrd Castle has probably the most foggy google street images I ever seen)

    https://www.google.com/maps/@54.510...4!1sGWShaYVUUvw92DsAZNXvkw!2e0!7i13312!8i6656

    I think its fun and certainly felt worth my money, the assets alone were. I feel like it could use some more terrain graphics polish, but it is not a disqualifying issue at all.
     
    Last edited: Sep 18, 2020
  4. Ardaeshir

    Ardaeshir Well-Known Member

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    Here are some screenshots from the Kirkby Stephen - Tebay section (which would be the end of the old NER line). The coaches are LNER teaks that come with the route.

    I also ran it during summer to see how it compares with the Castle Barnard - Kirkby Stephen section. I'm more happy with this section, it looks much more polished and detailed than the part near Castle Barnard.

    Overall I'm getting more and more pleased to have this route.

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    Last edited: Sep 23, 2020
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  5. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    I am very much inclined to get this route and have yet to see anything to put me off (apart from the price but even there you get a lot for the money).

    Er... No. Not that I want to come across as a complete propeller head (waddaya mean too late?) or claim to be any authority on this but the Stainmore line was built by the South Durham and Lancashire Union Railway Company which was wholly owned by the Stockton and Darlington Railway under its engineer Thomas Bouch (of Tay Bridge infamy). The S&DR took over and operated the line on its completion though by the time the whole trans-Pennine project was completed (with the line across Cockfield Fell from Barney to the Haggerleazes branch linking it Bishop Auckland- see the Weardale and Teesdale route) the S&DR itself had merged with the North Eastern Railway. This is all far to the north of GNR territory.

    Of course both the NER and GNR became parts of the LNER at grouping which I dare guess might be what you were thinking of.
     
  6. Ardaeshir

    Ardaeshir Well-Known Member

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    Of course, I meant to write NER not GNR. My mistake, lapsus calami at its worst. I guess that's what I get for posting stuff at 10.30 PM after a long day at work. ;)

    GNR extended at its furthest to Keighley and Shipley IIRC, just northeast of Leeds. I've edited my previous post to correct the mistake. Thanks for mentioning it.
     
  7. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I have this route and it is certainly worth buying. It captures the desolate feel of the line between Kirkby Stephen and Barnard Castle and the more pastural scenery to the west of Kirkby Stephen. It might look more expensive but it is a large route and there is a shed load of stock for it.

    The only complaint I have and is fairly minor is that I wish they had completed the scenery on the Lakeside and Haverthwaite line and maybe put in Ulverston station.
     
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  8. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    Does this route include a Snowdrift at Bleath Gill scenario? If not it ruddy well should!
     
  9. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    No, but there is a scenario of it on UKTS. You will need the DT 2mt for it as that was the loco involved and a couple of other items of DLC. In fact I think the actual loco involved is one of the preserved ones.
     
  10. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    The section you refer to was/is Work in Progress which is why it is not shown on the map
    Eden valley.jpg
    I was pleased to find the section to Ulverston as I used to drive down there in the 1990's
    Arnside_Down_Line.JPG
    Peter
     
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  11. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    It just gets better.
    It's being worked on by one of the societies near Darlington Railway Centre and Museum (the old North Road Station)- can't remember if it's DRPS or NELPeG off the top of my head. I knew one of the people who appears in the Snowdrift at Bleath Gill film. He'd've been tickled pink by this.
     
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  12. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Nice photo Peter, must have been a lovely line to drive on in those days. Does it still have the traditional signal boxes and signals or has it been swept aside by modernisation? It isn't an area I know well.

    I have only flew over that area on the route I thought they hadn't quite got to Ulverston. I knew it was work in progress, although I thought there was going to be scenery but generic, that is the impression I had got but clearly I got the wrong impression. Not that it matters as the Stainmore section was the main interest for me.
     
  13. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Even today as you go in to Carnforth Station the Signal Boxes start with the first being at the country end of the station.
    Then Arnside, Grange-over-Sands, Ulverston, Dalton Jn where the Barrow Avoiding line goes off and in to Barrow in Furness.

    In 2015 back a friend and I did a day trip in his car visiting the different Signal Boxes north of Barrow -
    most are in this album and are still in use today
    https://peter749.piwigo.com/index?/category/297-july_august_2015

    Peter
     
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  14. Ardaeshir

    Ardaeshir Well-Known Member

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    I'm not sure, if it does than it might be for an engine that I don't own.
     
  15. Ardaeshir

    Ardaeshir Well-Known Member

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    Yes, it seems the southwestern part of the map was expanded since. I will post a screenshot of the current range of the map below:

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  16. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    It is still Work in Progress even thought those sections are included they don't have all the scenery
    The map on Steam Sounds Supreme website was the one I posted above
     
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  17. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    Is it an overall positive impression from those who have bought this route? Is it ever on sale (in the American sense!)?
     
  18. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    What does "in the American sense" mean? the route was available with the 30% discount in the SSS Sale but I think you missed that.

    I bought the route when it came out - the screen shots on the SSS Website convinced me and I'm quite happy with it.
    I don't run Steam locos - too technical for me - and I'm happy with early Diesels - I leave the AI Steam trains in though
     
  19. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    I meant technically, anything in a shop is 'on sale', as in available for purchase - the American usage, whic has become the norm here now, means offered at a reduced price!
     
  20. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry I don't speak American - to me a Sale is a Sale
     
  21. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I have the route and it is a very good package and for me well worth full price as you get plenty of stock to run it "out of the box" with several steam locos's, different types of carriages and many different wagons including some very suitable for the local industries along the route. Being from steam sounds supreme they have very good sound sets too.

    The route itself is very well made and detailed, and captures the atmosphere of the area well, from the desolation of Stainmore to the lushness of the Eden Valley.

    It is a challenging drive in a steam engine with some fierce gradients.
     
  22. JJTimothy

    JJTimothy Well-Known Member

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    The line to Lakeside is unfinished, all the included rolling stock is steam age, a couple of the included scenarios are troublesome (and it's a shame there aren't any for the WCML section or on to the steel works near Plumpton), the route's a bit rough around the edges here and there and appears to be poorly optimised- owners of minimum spec' systems need not apply. These are the worst most nit-picky criticisms I can think of for what is overall a beautiful very impressive route that comes with a generous selection of rolling stock. Given the route's title the fact that the line to Plumpton is there at all is a bonus never mind Lakeside.

    SSS does have sales- I bought Stainmore and a couple of loco's for 50% off. Bargain.
     
  23. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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  24. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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  25. inversnecky

    inversnecky Well-Known Member

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    I’ve never purchased anything from them, so won’t be on their mailing list. I’ll see if I can sign up without a purchase.
     
  26. R3dS41ft

    R3dS41ft Active Member

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  27. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Yes that is the one downside I found as it would be nice to be able to drive it with scenery complete, I think the line would need extending to Ulverston too as I assume that is where the lakeside branch trains terminated.

    I wonder if the builder intended or intends to complete the scenery one day.

    Still even without it, it is a lovely route.
     
  28. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    The new route from Preston to Barrow uses this line so the scenery from Arnside to and beyond Ulverson is complete
     
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