PlayStation So Much Negativity But It’s All Justified

You seem to forget that the devs are usually not in charge. There are people above the development team that set a time frame and a release date, and when they say "release it as planned" it is going to happen, because they are the decision makers. They calculate the costs and profits and to some degree that might even be all they do, maybe not even interested in what is released and how the state of it is.

 

The higher ups need to understand, and fast, that cutting quality to meet a deadline is NOT acceptable. Allow the development team to do what they need to do and don’t force it. You can’t rush quality. You can’t force creativity.

Future routes need to be polished to within an inch of their lives and I’m prepared to wait for that to be the case.

I’d even be happy to pay a few extra £££ to make sure the quality is there out of the box. I’d be prepared to pay £29.99 for a new route instead of £24.99 and £14.99 for a new train instead of £11.99.

But, in exchange for that, I’d expect the station, train and scenery modelling to be near perfection with the best quality textures, the sounds to be true, accurate and perfectly balanced and to be able to complete every job, scenario and timetable in the game.

 

I truly hope that the next update of the roadmap will have a lot of bug fixes in the next arrival section. I understand that DTG can't update bug fixes daily, but the rate they're coming now,... or let's say NOT coming now The game's been out for over a month and we have had close to no fixes whatsoever...
I hope the AFB fix for the 185.2 and a complete sound re-mix will come soon....

As for the IOW route. I know it's a very short one, so for me, it'll depend on the price. If it's priced as a normal route, I will not be bying it from the off. As it such a short route, I'm not paying more then the 15-18 EUR range.

 

If you guys want to know what a low quality route looks like, look no further than the NEC DLC from a few years ago.
I dont mean to throw any shade by saying this, but the original TSW and the first few years of its life just felt soulless compared to what we're getting right now. The quality of things has definitely improved over the last few releases and there's some genuine progress going on now.
And even now there's people thinking that this game is completely unusable. Bug ridden. Oh wow, can't play the game at all. Its broken!!!
Meanwhile I can hop on an ICE on the Köln - Aachen route, and drive along at 250 kmh on LZB...these are things that weren't even available in the original TSW. The sounds are great. LZB works like a charm. I can mess around with the displays. The trains are well modeled (actually...thats one of the better things that DTG does, is the actual model) Its a fairly sized 60 KM route. People were begging for this sort of stuff a year ago! Yet...here we are.

I understand wanting a product that works and gives plenty of hours of play. That's perfectly reasonable, and I want to push for more improvements as well, this game needs plenty of more care. But TSW2 already basically provides what it advertises. Its inherently not a bad game at all.

This thread keeps mentioning oh but theres soo many bugs. The devs are soo evil! They're not doing this and that!
Yes. Everyone knows that. The devs want this game to be perfect just as much as we do. But you can't magically make bugs disappear with a finger snap. Things take time and resources to work on.

And this here kinda highlights the relationship between DTG and the community. From the start, there was all this excitement and ambition that this will be the next evolution in train simulation. Its what they advertised.
Fast forward to now, and it seems that people still have this idea in their head that this game is supposed to be absolutely immaculate. Fully detailed. Perfect in every way.
Its why theres this heavy sense of negativity in the community, moreso than in other games. It underdelivered on expectations
TSW wasn't going to be perfect from the start, but its made a lot of progress over the years. Theres still new stuff being added. Theres bugs that are being addressed.
Its fine to want more improvements, we all do. But im starting to think these exact sort of threads are unnecessary and only serve as echo chambers for negativity, especially when theres hardly any constructive criticism involved.

 

But im starting to think these exact sort of threads are unnecessary and only serve as echo chambers for negativity, especially when theres hardly any constructive criticism involved

Just shows you haven’t read all the post, there is plenty of constructive criticism, I have been waiting for DTG to defend themselves, it’s ok saying their watching the forums but I would like them to reply to all the criticism and justified criticism this post has thrown up, the shear amount of attention my original post has created shows there are a lot of disappointed customers who won’t stay customers forever without improvement

 

I don't think there isn't constructive criticism here. Why people are complaining? Well, because this had to be a new start in TSW franchise, but it isn't. Of couse the game improved since first routes. I played NEC last night and well, DTG made BIG improvements since then, no doubt. But in general this is a step back in comparison to other more recent routes. ECW was released almost one year ago and is still a lot better than these new routes. I expected at least that quality, not a step back for sure. Who developed ECW? The same people who messed up with Bakerloo Line or the superbugged preserved content? Nobody is asking for impossible things, just good quality things, and DTG already proved it's possible.

 

A new start! bringing the passenger bug from to TSW2020 to TSW2 where they don’t leave the train when it’s parked up in a siding is sloppy copy and paste code, not work to iron out a simple problem, no it’s not a deal breaker but it does show DTG sloppiness and work ethic to improve it’s product, that is just one example of many failings, there is little professional management and little professional work ethic on show, as long as a train gets from A-B that’s all DTG worries about

 

Its a new game in the sense that its a new entity thats sold separately from TSW2020. Its technically a separate thing. A new game that builds on what came prior to it. It was however not a fresh blank slate, this has been discussed plenty of times before.

A personal observation of mines... that bug with the passengers you've mentioned? I've been noticing that its sort of been fixed on the Bakerloo line especially, but its something that works half the time. Sometimes I've seen the passengers get off, sometimes they dont. It almost seems like they're testing an implementation of the fix, but its unannounced as fair as I'm aware. It's something to keep an eye on, perhaps it'll appear on the roadmap soon? Who knows.

Anyways, like I've already mentioned....that basically is the strategy here. DTG is concerned only if the train goes from A to B successfully. Most of the bugs that are mentioned are purely cosmetic, and most do not affect functionality at all. Since the game is only a month old...this is something thats perfectly okay for them to do. They want to make sure the game works, so they can worry about cosmetics and quality further down the line as they make new DLC.

If you really truly disagree with their business practice...well....just vote with your wallet.
Personally, I'm seeing progress, and I'm happy with the direction this game is finally going. As long as they continue to improve and keep adding things to the roadmap, that is..

 

Although TSW isn't a month old, it's several years old. We are talking about bugs that have been around since inception, alongside new bugs introduced to preserved content.

If this was an early access game then I'd have no quibbles. But this has been released as a fully finished game. Not a work in progress...

 

Some of things that have been raised are not bugs, but poor workmanship. A train clipping a platform by a considerable amount is not a bug.

 

Complete lack of quality control OR let’s just release it and worry about it later

 

That’s a horrible way for them to go about things. I’ve already seen a fair amount of people saying that they either won’t play TSW 2 until the game is fixed, or they aren’t gonna buy it until then. That’s potential lost profit and a smaller player base. The routes in TSW 2 seem like they were made with the right intentions, but the devs couldn’t deliver fully. (Maybe because it was rushed?) DTG thinks that all the game needs to be is the train going from Point A to Point B and thats it. They aren’t worrying about platform objects clipping through the train, no noise, or broken speed limits, they are solely worrying about the movement of the train.
I think focus needs to be equally applied to all aspects of driving a train, the stations, and more, to provide a true SIMULATION of operating a train.

If that last part wasn’t ‘constructive criticism’ idk what is...

 

At the moment their take seems to be they're happy as long as the game runs, the bugs can be ironed out. That's like EA saying that the latest version of FIFA will run so we'll get round to the bug where the ball won't cross the goal line at some other time.

 

Sure, but something like that is fundamental to playing the game, so I'm not sure the analogy works.
Plenty of bugs like passengers remaining in sidings, or trains clipping platforms are just quality of life issues. They don't necessarily prevent you from completing objectives.
I agree, these are terrible bugs, and they shouldn't even be in a full release in the first place. Its just poor quality control.
But there was numerous occasions where rain would clip through bridges and ceilings overhead...there were issues with the tunnels on LIRR. These have all been taken care of recently, and it goes to show that things are still being ironed out.

Really, all I'm trying to say here is that TSW is very much not in a mature state at all, and is still actively being worked on. Give things some time to be worked on. Just dont resort to bashing people and clouding threads with negativity. Feedback and constructive criticism is fine and its encouraged...much of our feedback has influenced many of the improvements that TSW2 brings to the table.

 

In what way am I clouding this thread with negativity. The thread is titled "So Much Negativity But It’s All Justified"

Also DTG have said themselves that their main objective is that everyone can play the game. So spending two hours on a scenario which results in a red signal which never changes is ok? Or should I think myself lucky to have had the two hours driving? I'm not asking for anything new, all I'm asking is what DTG have promised with all their fancy sales patter and screenshots actually works because that's what I have paid my money for.

If you are happy to spend money on things which aren't up to the standard they have claimed then good for you. Personally, I am not prepared to accept mediocre.

 

Those aren’t the only bugs though. There are many bugs that prevent the completion of scenarios, and services.

 

Got to agree with the complaints on this thread

I'm a long term TSW player and always just accepted the bugs in TSW2020 for what they are and made the most of it

Since TSW2 came out I now find this practically impossible. This game is absolutely littered with problems to the point where its really affecting the quality of the game.

Extremely disappointed with it tbh

 

I´d really appreciate it, if somebody could kindly point me to one or two of the many, many, many game breaking bugs in TSW 2, that make it impossible to enjoy the game. And no, Preserved Collection routes don´t count.

 

Why don't preserved routes count? You can't exclude the biggest bunch of bugs and then go "tell me about the bugs".

 

Exactlly, because TSW 2 is a new game, with a new engine. Porting code from an old engine to a new engine is not trivial. All sorts of things can go wrong (like tthe sound) for example.

 

Personally I feel like if the ability to bring the content with you is part of their selling point (and they hit this heavily in the build up to launch) it's not unreasonable to expect that content to work properly. Just my opinion.

 

Exactly. Every time I play TSW2 I enjoy me game even when I get a problem here and there. I have completed all the scenarios in TSW2 and in all the preserved collection. All the tutorials have been along with several time table and journey routes. And have not found anything that has ruined the game for me. I guess I must have a lower expectation for perfection in a game than a others. And I am glad of that because I realise it is a game, a game, not something that is going to cause a major catastrophe somewhere in the world because it is not perfect.

 

A lot more than the sound has broken with the porting. They promised to port the content when they upgraded the engine. If they couldn't achieve it, then they shouldn't have promised it...

This game is not early access, the number of bugs are worse than a number of the early access games I own on steam...

 

The three community managers continue to be deafening by their silence, which is disappointing.

 

You aren’t wrong, if they continue to frequently say “and your previous routes will come over to the new game” you would expect them to be playable without an issue.

 

I play all mine

 

Sam, Matt, Natalie.... are you not going to answer? are you not going to defend the criticisms against DTG? this has been a significant thread and it appears you have nothing to say to the customers that keep you all in a job AND WE WANT TO.... but DTG make it harder to support with practically every unfinished release

 

Sorry while I agree that the game has issues that needs to be addressed, there comes a time when something ceases to be constructive criticism and just becomes walls of text.

I mean seriously, look at your post. How do you want them to reply to someone who thinks they can go around and say 'you are making it so hard for me to help you keep you in your job'? What do you want them to do, beg?

Seriously, threads like this do not help as they have very little detail on what might have triggered a certain bug and what may be of use is hidden in endless waffle

 

Well, that wasn't really targeted at you, nor do I intend on targeting anyone. But I meant that in a more general sense because all throughout these forums theres plenty of threads that end up being the same- its just turns into a whole lot of bashing and complaining, and most tend to just talk in a broad sense without actually pinpointing a specific problem. And that right there, is what I disagree with. Thats not constructive criticism, that's just talking about how much you dislike the game. Its why I think that threads such as this one serve no other purpose but to gather a whole lot of frustration into one place.

Those do indeed exist, and I dont want to deny that they matter. They do. But speaking on personal experience– and I genuinely mean it when I say this – I have never actually came across a service that had a bugged signal. Not a single time ever since I started playing TSW three years ago. All of the times I failed a service it was because of a SPAD, but those were my own fault and misjudgements. Not because of some bugged signal that stays red for hours.
Like I said, those do exist, and I've seen them across these forums, but I've never actually came across a game-ending issue in my personal experience.

 

Now you have had your reply from DTG are you any the wiser or happier? I only ask because we know that they know about all the criticism, constructive or otherwise, and we know that they are working on things all the time. Why would you want DTG to defend anything? Surely you would want them to agree and get everything fixed. We know how things work. We report and things get fixed. Not everything and not quickly enough but there has been a lot released and preserved recently so time has to be made for all that to be looked at. Sam’s reply here isn’t anything new, it’s what has been happening on many other threads and in general for several months now, but there can’t be a reply to everything.

It’s been a good thread where everybody can say what’s on their mind and it is all getting read. Results will come from it but maybe not everything immediately. We all want it more quickly, that’s only natural. There is still the hangover from the disappointment when news came that all fixes for TSW2020 bugs would stop and TSW2 hasn’t been out long enough for any evidence of a massive difference in how things get through the system yet but the intention is clearly there. There’s a new team for the purpose of updates and fixes and there’s a bigger community team being assembled, the roadmap and live streams for clarity, and we have to have faith. It’s been very easy to get caught up in the hope of the new release being perfect and in the negative way of looking at everything (I certainly got caught up in it) but if you take a step back and look at everything in context, things are much better now than they ever were. The content, the clarity, the attitude is changing for the better but we do need to give it enough time and, as ever, keep giving good criticism, not circular arguments, so DTG have something concrete to work with.

 

But we have talked about specific problems on this thread.

 

Thanks for the reply Sam, I just wanted to see if the criticisms were being read, I know this might not be what some of the community would want to happen and I know from a commercial sense DTG wouldn’t want to happen but on a personal level I wish your future releases could be put on hold so you could polish the routes we have already paid for, get frame rates/freeze ironed out, just one example, I understand DTG is a business and in this extremely challenging time we live in the company needs to survive and I sincerely hope you do and thrive in the future but giving yourselves time limits to get routes out the gate has compromised your work, quality and maybe reputation, maybe releasing routes when they are finished and not to a strict time table is something to seriously consider, I know bugs and gremlins will always exist in software but you know the quality of the software you release is not up to the level required and the community does as well

this is my last post on what has been a very interesting thread I started, it has meant to be constructive from me and I’m looking forward to the next roadmap and what Rivet and other third parties have to offer as well

All stay safe at DTG as the virus is on the up again and I sincerely hope I can post a thread full of praise for DTG moving forward,

 

Got a deja vu over reading this one. Is that the main reason you guys started over with Tsw2? To reset the time frame of which this game has been released even though its the same as the "prequel"? Cant wait to read the same line after the release of Tsw3, 4, 5, 6...

 

I've barely played TSW2. :/