Speeds Into Aschaffenburg

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Shaun123, Oct 1, 2020.

  1. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Hello,

    Just a question re speeds on MSB on the approach to Aschaffenburg Hbf.

    Speeds on approach is 160km/h followed by a 150km/h restriction with a warning for 110 km/h, so already I’m reducing speed, immediately ahead is a signal showing proceed combined with an advanced warning for a reduced speed at the next signal (assume 40km/h) so PZB all fine, and I reduce to 85 in 23 secs, no issues. I then reduce further to 65km/h in preparation for the 500hz magnet before reducing to 45, as I see the signal, the top speed on the triangle is showing “3” as in 30km/h with an warning for the next signal to be showing a danger aspect.

    Is the above sequence correct? On TSW2020 I always had an issue with PZB emergency brake and never knew why, but seems to be solved in TSW2.

    Now is the 30km/h correct? I was expecting a 40km/h limit but understand that 30 can apply if you go into a bay platform, which you do. So when does the 40 or 30 apply? Does the 40 apply from that signal and then 30 just as you head into the Bay platform?

    Thanks for any help!
     
  2. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    I think that if on top of the signal there is a number than that is the speed limit which must be respected.
     
  3. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    The lowest is the one which applies, but...
    eg
    Train type O ->165 kph (mandatory 160)
    but 1000 Hz becomes active -> 85 (80) in 23 s
    during approaching Hp2 -> slow down to 40, theoretically
    with Zs3 showing 5 -> 50 is our permitted speed
    :D
     
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  4. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    perhaps this helps. doesn't explain PZB, but it does explain German signalling (which IMO is the best signalling system, once you know how it works :P )
    https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1841393921

    A number on top of the signal indicates the speed limit at that signal.
    A number at the bottom of the signal indicates the speed limit at the next signal.
     
  5. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Yes, I’m all fine with German signalling and PZB! But I just was curious about the sequence!

    Can anyone have a run into Aschaffenburg preferably into the bay just to confirm my observations?
     
  6. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    On my way

    UPDATE

    ~ 3,3 km to Aschaffenburg : distant signal, expect speed reduction to 100 kph
    ~ 2,2 : distant signal, expect SLOW SPEED (in 1000 m) and 1000 Hz magnet active so <70 (65) kph in 29 s
    (100 kph reduction becomes history)
    ~ 1,3 : main SLOW SPEED signal and distant expect STOP plus 1000 Hz active but SLOW SPEED is on top so <40 kph from here
    and so on for 500 Hz until full stop

    I know, You asked about a passenger service - I will do some test in about 1h
     
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  7. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

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    Understood your question. So let me explain. You have done everything good, but you can do it better. When you reach the first signal speed (15) you need to start to slow down. At this point when you see the distant signal with a switching indicator (green - yellow), if there are no number you need to slow down directly until 40km/h until you see a new speed limit or a new speed signal (30 in this case). After that signal you just need to slow down to 30 and you can approach to the station. Another thing is you can start to decellerate as soon as you see a signal that is different of clear. Remember to acknowledge every route change (signal and speed indicator).
    So for a recap. 40 will be apply when you see a signal with next-stop or next-switch without a number with it. In this case you need to get 40kmh. When you are at 40kmh and you see the signal with 3 (30) at that point start the restriction to 30.
     
  8. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Yes that’s all fine, I was more questioning such a sharp reduction! And is that correct?

    On TSW2020 I used to get to caught out, so maybe thinking now a PZB bug? As it hasn’t happened (as I expected) and reduced my speed to the expected parameters.
     
  9. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

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    I'm running the route now so i can show you how i do it
     
  10. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    delucadomenico2009 is a trained professional so better say YES, Shaun123 :)
    I am still on my way to Aschaffenburg... technical problems... these German trains... :)
     
  11. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

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    Just tried, and yes it is a bit forced but is possible to do. However you need to slow down until 40 as you see the first distant signal, than you need to asume 30 when the signal says 3. Honestly with this high speed that part needs the yellow aspect. Or a signal with a reduction without pzb for exemple 12 before the switch for the freight yard
     
  12. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks that’s brilliant! I was just checking, I got it correct that’s all.

    As there’s an initial slow down to 85km/h in 23 seconds then you need to be below 65 km/h and there’s a 500hz magnet so reduce to 45km/h and then prepare to meet the 30 limit!
     
  13. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Yeah, that part is not so good for restaurant wagons :D
    It's a very short distance. 87.2 is that |110| warning and 88.4, station's entrance with track change.
    With or without signals - time to brake hard with that route-knowledge, yhyhy
     
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  14. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

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    No. Wait. Just tried 3 times and there is a bug with the pzb (i'm on ps4). The 500 magnet activates in the wrong place. Let me explain. You are arriving at aschaffenburg at 160. First reduction (15). After 1 km second reduction (11) and a main signal clear (green) + distant signal switch (yellow-green). Now here the 1000 magnet start to works properly and you need to slow down at the safe speed of 40 (under 85 for pzb and at 40 because there are no number with the signal). Ok now we are approching the main signal (distant said swithch yellow-green) and 300m before the main signal the 500 magnet start to work and this is the bug because if you are running good you will get the emergency brake. The 500 magnet only start to work when the main signal is stop (red) and this is not the case because the main signal is switch (yellow-green). Also when you restart the train and pass the main signal (switch yellow-green) + distant stop (yellow-yellow) + next limit (3) and you acknowledge the pzb does not start to works. This is the a problem. I have tried to arrive in the station at a normal platform and it work perfectly, seems the bug only works if you are arriving at the bay platform (dead railway)
     
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  15. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for explaining then!
    Maybe that’s why I did get an emergency brake when I use to play TSW2020 as I didn’t slow down enough to meet the 500hz magnet!

    It looks like this time I slowed down enough hitting the 500hz magnet (which you mention is a bug!) which is why I didn’t get a brake application!

    So basically if you’re a running into the bay, you, and reduce speed for 160-85 etc you need to slow to below 65 and then 45 in good time due to the 500hz magnet?!
     
  16. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    65 kph is mandatory when 500 Hz is active when you pass it then 45 within 153 m
    PS It is important to know:
    If the Main Signal ahead indicates STOP, all magnets in the same block become ACTIVE, so you can expect that 500 goin' on-line :)
    About "progression" (source:wiki)
    [​IMG]
     
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  17. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

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    Yes with this problem. But becauss there is no number for the speed, directly reduce to 45kmh (with a slowly reduce of the breaking force after 85kmh).
     
  18. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

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    Yes but in this case the signal ahead is not a STOP but a switch for this reason the 500 magnet mustn't be activated because i'm slowing down for a switch and not for a stop, so i prepare the train with a certian ammount of brake. In real life if is exepected a stop (yellow-yellow distant) we used to stay at 40kmh ~500m before the main but if there is a switch we used to stay at 40kmh ~200m before the main, so the ammout of brake force is different, you cannot activate the 500 magnet if the main is not a red signal.
     
  19. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    It's close to impossible to Overspeed 500 Hz because of preceding HP 2 obligates to go <40.
    I am pretty sure, if there is some 30 kph - it is a permanent restriction on that track.
    Maybe some 500-behavior is bugged, but still, this is normal but a little sharp braking.

    I parked there a moment ago as well, and I didn't notice anything out of the ordinary, but maybe it's a habit :D

    UPDATE

    And the key - 1,200 meters before this junction is the announcement 110, and we can speed 150 reaching it. Naturally - I would start to brake hard. I assume the engineer knows about this station there :D irl...
     
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  20. delucadomenico2009

    delucadomenico2009 Active Member

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    Need to check it again, but it need a huge brake force. This is one of the "grey zone" of the pzb. For this reason i still prefer the SCMT in italy. In some cases the braking area of the pzb is too shotly
     
  21. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Well, I don't know, you already know for sure: if the signaling stopped working, it broke - would you brake there? Know, are you stopping in a moment? I also often catch it that I literally stick to certain rules in TSW. But there are stations unprotected by an active magnet or a non-green signal, and yet there we brake (even in the game!) And stop :D

    PS This whole Aschaffenburg, this junction, they're just there! :) :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 2, 2020
  22. Alexandreo3

    Alexandreo3 Active Member

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    the 30 is correct and Applies form the signal on.
    DTG fucked up the distand signal not having a 3 indicator below it to show you that the main signal will show 30 km/h.
    Anoyed me aswell the first time i had the Problem.
    Whenever you go onto a Track that ends at a buffer stop or at a shared plattform where a train is allready using a section you will get a 30km/h speed restriction
     
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  23. Shaun123

    Shaun123 Well-Known Member

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    That is good to know and explains everything! Thanks for your help everyone!

    Edit:

    Just done a run into Aschaffenburg Platform 6 no issues, received all the correct indications, as mentioned above there is warning for the upcoming 60 km/h limit.


    So it’s definitely a PZB bug related to going into the Bay? DTG can we have a look if I raise a ticket please?
     
    Last edited: Oct 2, 2020
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