Is This The End

Discussion in 'General Discussion' started by garethjohn1379, Oct 10, 2020.

  1. garethjohn1379

    garethjohn1379 New Member

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    Just bought WCML South for TS2021. Perhaps i'm spoilt due to the standard I've become used to since TSW but this feels like it's a last hurrah.
    It looks poor from the first scenario, get in to the very dark 360 and can't find the lights, when I do I still cannot see the master key or throttle. Later on the scenery looks poor, and all Pendo's are nine car. And if Birmingham and Coventry were that sparsely populated and rural they won't need to bother with HS2.
    Only six scenarios and one with the Pendolino is pretty tight arsed and nothing added to other routes with the trains included. I can't be bothered to create my own and quick drive gets boring after a while.

    Is this is a third party DLC brought onto DTGs steam platform so it's easier to sell and install?
    I've bought 3rd Party before and a lot falls far behind the standards of early TS editions in terms of quality. Have DTG now dropped there own standards to some 3rd Party hobby developers as TS doesn't matter now we have TSW?
    Have DTG's most talented creators moved onto TSW allowing a few remaining TS staff to spruce up a Hobby developers creation as Steam add on and flog it on to make a few quid to keep the dwindling few into TS.

    WCML South feels like a lazy half arsed creation, even the messages explaining landmarks look amateur (my grammar and spellings not the greatest but i'm not being paid for it)

    I have a feeling that by bringing out the end section of the busiest most sellable route left in the UK is one last cash-in opportunity for TS or used to promote TS2021. Most of TSW/TS players will have travelled on it so like me bought it due to this( there's only one line left that would appeal enough to buy another route but its far too scenic to be included into TS current limitations and would be a waste of DTG's time when they have a far more capable sim in TSW for it to be created onto. There, might be a few European routes left but they need TSW's capabilities to run as well and look as good to do them justice, hardly any point releasing a scenic route on TS2021 anymore as it would look rubbish in comparison.

    Other than the amount of routes its got and Steam Trains. what's the point of TS being updated every year?
     
  2. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    If you are going to judge TS for its graphics alone, perhaps it's not for you. Besides... who uses TS20xx out of the box without modifying the graphics any way?
     
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  3. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Is this the end?

     
  4. garethjohn1379

    garethjohn1379 New Member

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    I didn't expect this to be as impressive as TSW or the new Flight Simulator, I don't buy games to spend hours tweaking the graphics, the games off steam install to my PC's recommended settings. TS isn't about graphics anymore WCML South has shown that, it's not about gameplay either TSW provides that element.
    So what's the point of TS? It's about having a quick and simple train game where you jump in and go and runs on low end computers.
    It feels DTG are stringing out the last possible bits they can with this route the limit of TS' capabilities with the last profitable route worth creating to be released with a new edition of TS. You wonder why they left this part of the network till last, perhaps it was a gamble on a game towards the end of its life that was too big to take when TS was the benchmark and DTGS only Train Sim.
    Train Simulators cannot be of interest to a wide enough market to warrant a single company spreading resources over two sims.
    TS had its place but i'm not spending on it again its only a disappointment now
     
    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
  5. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    There's a thread of the versus sort of nature over here: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/difference-ts-tsw.19287/

    I love running TS on a monster rig, with a plethora of enhancements. Modded TS at 4k does have the potential to look more realistic than TSW on a PS4. Plus there's a world of content out there.

    I get bored of restrictions and limitations, so TSW isn't really my cuppa tea.
     
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  6. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Like I said... perhaps TSW is a better choice for you then, as "tweaking" is pretty much what makes TS20xx the game it is... from route design to scenario building to all manner of hands on modifications.

    When was it ever?

    TSW is a better "game", yes.


    it's a simulator that allows some very in-depth, granular customisation to allow a massive range of scenarios and rolling stock.


    If that's what you think TS is, like I said... perhaps it's not for you.
     
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  7. Pookeyhead

    Pookeyhead Well-Known Member

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    Not if YouTube videos are anything to go by.
     
  8. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    Youtube videos are definitely not something to go by. Most people don't do youtube videos.
     
  9. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I recently bought a Hanover Sub and I am delighted. Can be! However, UEngine certainly has fewer limitations than the TS engine (number of polygons, triangles/model, etc.).

    TSW is the future. There is a place for TS in this future too, I think :)
     
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  10. garethjohn1379

    garethjohn1379 New Member

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    Last edited: Oct 10, 2020
  11. garethjohn1379

    garethjohn1379 New Member

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    Closer to this
     
  12. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    Apart from checking the Settings in the Nvidia Control Panel I don't go messing around with all the different programs like RW Enhancer to tweak the Graphics and most the time it runs ok.
    That is standard for most DTG Routes - some only come with three or less - the Fife Circle has 9 but only two for the 68.

    You are used to TSW which comes with a lot of Scenarios - but that was because the player could not create their own.
    If you want to see a difference between this route and TSW2 go for a run with the 378 to Watford over the DC
    You will see other trains on the mainline and the route does not stop at Harrow
    Do a Queens Park - Harrow on TSW2 and you would think the mainline was closed :D

    Wait for the updates to the route that are coming out and try it again
    Or go back to TSW and play the same group of scenarios over and over with no variation

    Peter
     
  13. garethjohn1379

    garethjohn1379 New Member

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    There isn't a call to delete TS from history, its about DTG concentrating and building one train sim. The community can keep it running.
    I don't expect Sony to update my FIFA PS2 games while releasing new versions for PS5.
    The WCML either shows that they cannot work to a standard they wish to on TS anymore due to its limitations or they have not got the resources to work on both at the same time. Either way its seriously damaged DTGs reputation. I still think it's a waste of money after the updates.
    WCML South was the biggest cash cow left on TS, it'd be better if they had released it on TSW2 solely.
     
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  14. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    With TS20xx you don't have to buy a new version - that is just for TSW2
    Except it would not work in TSW2 - where are the Mainline trains on the Bakerloo Line?
    You already have a 66 and stock but you won't see one anywhere on the overground section of the Bakerloo line as the game will not handle it
     
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  15. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    AP indicate that you can do a lot more with TS. In fairness, that old engine deserves some new bits and pieces.

    TSW2 just doesn't have the freedom factor.
     
  16. garethjohn1379

    garethjohn1379 New Member

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    I've played TS since 2011. And have more DLC than i've ever been able to complete. I bought TSW two years ago but the PC limitations prevented me playing it properly I only re-started with TSW in July after buying a new Gaming Laptop.
    TS has the ability to run what you want over any line, but even its newest DLC looks crap now. I bought WCML thinking it be nice to try a route i'm familiar with.
    I prefer accuracy with games the complexities and very limited availability to record and replicate one over a mainline setting means Steam Trains are going to be a long time coming for TSW, but I can live with that, what I cannot get, I cannot have.

    I don't know or care how big DTG's development team are or how much they now care about TS but it looks as though working on both is at the expense of both simulators, it looks to me they cannot manage two train simulators, being released and updated annually or even release decent routes for TS anymore. I also think its wrong that they consider charging the same price for TS DLC as they do for TSW.
    TSW has its limitations due to the in depth realism of the trains and scenery, I would be very reluctant to allow 3rd party developers into the TSW game unless they can match and prove they can create content that doesn't wreck the game as many have on TS.

    Leave TS as it is, fix it up to a point, then leave it.
     
  17. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    TSW2 just isn't ever going to be TS. TS has freedom of everything.

    Anyways, I posted you a link to a TS vs TSW thread :) Enjoy mate!
     
  18. garethjohn1379

    garethjohn1379 New Member

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    If DTG are struggling to release quality content without countless issues they need to concentrate on one Train Sim. TS on its own was the benchmark few knew better I remember it with little DLC like TSW 2 has now, they need more resources to build new DLC for TSW considering the accuracy to detail it requires.
    I do not think DTG is capable of working to a high enough standard on both, recent evidence of new releases on both games is proof of that.
     
  19. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    If they are struggling to release content for any title then they need to employ more staff not drop a sizeable chunk of their earning capital!
     
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  20. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    TS is the long haul uber-win app, it just needs investment in its core engine. So many man hours, days, years even spent defining it as pretty much the standard Train Simulator with a universe of content, all ripe to enhance.

    TSW2 is the bait and switch. A pretty one mind.
     
  21. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    If Dovetail had been more constant in the past I would be more willing to agree, but they have pretty much always been hit or miss. For example Donner Pass was a buggy mess when that came out, to the point that it needed a patch just like with WCML, and that was one of the early routes for the game. If you want a constant dev you've always been better off looking to third party devs like Smokebox over Dovetail. I also don't think WCML negate routes such as Clinchfield & Fife Circle, both of which being recent routes by DTG that have been well received.
     
  22. mike370

    mike370 Active Member

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    You seem to be basing your whole judgement of the supposed immenient end of TS20xx, based on a single dog's dinner of a route production. Because that's what's happened here - unfortunately the much hyped WCML-S show case route is a mess. The fact it runs so abysmally has nothing to do with the core game, it's purely down to this particular route build having been incredibly poor optimised. There have been dozens of very fine, good looking, enjoyable routes released over recent years. It's just sadly the case that WCML-S isn't one of them. In a positive light it could be seen as nothing more than an unfortunate anomoly.

    If you really do feel that particular line was the one and only route left that was worth doing, then I think you might need to broaden your horizons a little. Perhaps go on a worldwide travel tour. I'm only jesting here in a good natured way. I do realise many players do prefer to focus on their home country, and certainly the U.K. is well covered in TS. - and you might well feel that particular way. But, there are still hundreds of railways in scores of exciting countries around the world that haven't yet featured in TS. There are now some cracking routes finally coming out for India and South America. And countries like Austrailia, New Zealand, Norway, Sweden etc.. offer huge potential for endless new exciting TS addon projects. Imagination is the only true limiting factor. As far as I'm concerned, as TS players, right now we're so very lucky, because the recent quality of the best add-ons has never been better e.g. just look at the new Searchlight Simulations AC4400CW model, absolutely fantastic!

    I'd also strongly concur with dunkrez, that when TS20xx is run on a high end gaming rig, with large high resolution monitor - plus with various enhancement mods/tweaks, there really isn't such a large difference in graphical fidelity between TS1 & TS2. Sure TSW looks better, but the difference isn't that great - certainly not as big as many would think (but they're probably playing vanilla TS2021 install). It's amazing what can be done to enhance looks & performance if tried. I do appreciate not everyone what's the hassle. :)

    As for comparing the price of TS2021 routes with TSW2 and complaining about the price for the former. Thing is, a TS20xx route tends to be about 3-4 times the length of a TSW offering, also tends to have all manner of locos and rolling stock included (as opposed to the one or two of single livery often included in TSW routes). You can use any form of traction your heart desires, including steam locos (can you do that in TSW2 yet?). And find and run an infinite number of new scenarios to play, which again in terms of challenging game-play & rail operations is only limited by the imagination and creativity of a huge supportive player community. I know I will never tire of activities for most of my DLC, even my older buys. it's almost an endless supply of resources. And if I'm still not happy I have the possibility of creating my own. And I can use all the assets of my 'expensive' (really?) TS20xx routes to build further routes or modify/add to existing routes & one off exciting scenarios.

    If good looks are the chief requirement for you (above everything else), & you want everything setup for you out of the box, & are not worried about content being limited by the developers own choices - then I can see why one may have a preference for TSW2. But a sizeable proportion of players don't want to be restricted in such a way, and love the freedom & flexibility that TS1 offers. And I can't see that appeal disappearing anytime soon. It's nice for players to have such a choice of platforms, picking the one that best suits their own particular needs. I personally don't see the overnight demise of TS20xx just yet.
     
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  23. ntypeman

    ntypeman Well-Known Member

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    Just my penny's worth... My question is this... Can you mod TS2 / TSW???

    TS20XX has tons of mods available, many free and many high quality... Yes some aren't up to today's standards but they are there... For example I wanted the original IoW tube stock (VEC & TIS) units... I never knew they were available until I did a bit of searching and to my amazement someone had made them!!! Ok, so as I said they aren't up to today's standards but bear in mind it was made years ago (the DLC as opposed to the real thing which really were made years ago!!!) but what I was made up about that even on my limited budget it was free!!!

    Another example is I have the Class 58... The AWS noises were all wrong and were getting on my nerves... With a little help from the members of this fine forum I swapped some files and "hey presto" it was as it should be!!!

    Can you really have / do that on TS2/TSW??? I can't answer that as I don't really play TS2 or have TSW... I have TS2 (albeit on the Xbox but don't really get any enjoyment out of playing TS2 on it, I think mainly because of the control input - Oh & the good lady goes mad as she spent a sizable sum of money on it for a previous birthday and I don't play it...!!!) I have TS2 on the laptop but have never downloaded it (Its currently sitting in my Steam account) let alone played it only because I was able to get it at a stupidly low price of about a fiver...!!!

    What gets to me is the fact that over the years I've amassed a reasonable TS20XX collection over the years (probably quite small compared to others - my stock pages only extend over 17 pages) but then if I want TS2/TSW then I have to buy more "new stock" again...

    I think for now I'll be sticking with TS20XX despite some of its misgivings, but to summarise, NO... I don't think this is the end so long as there are good people out there who want to put the work in to make people like me want TS20XX then it will survive... (I just wish I was talented enough to give back to the TS20XX community...)

    Eric
     
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  24. dcfcfan

    dcfcfan New Member

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    'If' and 'when' DTG decide not to make content anymore for TS20**, I'm very sure that the community will still make tons of stuff to keep us all happy for many years......

    Content is still being made for MSTS, and look how long ago that was put out to pasture!
     
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  25. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    To a degree yes. There are already mods that replace some posters ingame, or change the UI little bit. The .pack files used by TSW are standard UE pack files and DTG had choosen not to protect them. So you can extract them with tools that comes with the unreal engine sdk (which is free). I dunno how much you can do with extracted assets in the Unreal Editor.

    But, the community will (most likely) never be able to create own tracks, or locos without DTG releasing its version of the unreal editor, with all the custom in-house plugins they use, and according to DTG that is someting Epic is really not very keen on.
     
  26. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Not really a great choice of engine to replace the Kuju engine with then is it?

    "Guys, guys, I've done it, TS2 is ready for market!"

    "Awesome, it looks amazing, does it have the full feature set the customer base know and love?"

    "Never mind that, look how the sunlight dances off the loco body!"

    "But, we have a community that loves to build and customise without restriction..."

    "They'll never understand how to use the Unreal Editor, amateurs and simpletons, besides, they'll get used to the new normal. Give them a Forza 4 livery editor!"

    "You're so right, we're so clever!"

    Ad infinitum.
     
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  27. AirbourneAlex

    AirbourneAlex Well-Known Member

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    I do hope DTG continue to release content for TS Classic, if anything they could just concentrate on building routes as TS has so much rolling stock available nowadays that new routes rarely need new stock built for them. Moving the rolling stock team over to TSW wouldn't be a bad idea as TSW is really lacking in variety. Routes should continue to be made for TS classic as there's still lots of possibilities left, I can think of half a dozen ideal routes in the UK where there's no need for new stock, only the route itself needs building.

    My only concern is that because WCML South was such a disaster and many people negatively reviewed/refunded the route, it may harm their income to the point where development time on TS classic is not financially viable (and moving all resources over to TSW). I'd hate to see that happen but if some more consideration was put into releasing content when finished instead of to a precise deadline then DTG could really make some decent routes without faults which could potentially lead to more revenue.

    I do feel like WCML South was an example of a loss of love for the TS Classic platform, so hopefully we won't see that sloppiness continue.
     
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  28. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    I keep reading this a lot, but I've yet to find somebody saying what else should DTG do if they wanted to uplift Train Simulation to next-gen graphics?
    DTG doesn't have the money, manpower, nor technical knowledge to do an in-house modern rendering engine. There are very few companies that actually have this capability. People who write "they should just upgrade TS engine" really have no idea what they are talking about.

    Look on Kunos and Assetto Corsa Competizione, they too went for Unreal. Microsoft, with all their money at hand are using Unreal Engine, not an in-house one, for the latest Gears of Wars.
    If were are talking about the TSW timeframe then the choice was either Unreal, or CryEngine. Unity was still very, very rough on performance, and still there are very few AAA titles using that engine.
     
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  29. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I don't know if I agree with this. DTG are able to dedicate a very small dev team to TS and still likely bring in easy money if Steam player counts are anything to go by. It would make little sense for them to stop.

    As for WCML South, it's buggy and unfinished, but I think the stuff that is there is fine. Is it their best route ever? No, but it's also far from their worst if you forgive the bugs, which hopefully will be sorted out soon.
     
  30. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    This has been discussed to death. Unreal is a mis-step.

    Throwing grunt behind upgrading the original rendering engine is the righteous path.
     
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  31. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    First, it is grunt DTG doesn't have. Doing a modern engine is the most daunting task in modern game development, by a big margin. I don't understand how people are ignoring this fact. You might feel it is "righteous" path, but it is most likely a path that can get a niche SW developer company bankrupt.

    Second, upgrading the rendering engine of the first TS would introduce lots of visual bugs and annomalies with rendering of old content. The moment you introduce PBR and other modern rendering techniques, models that don't have this incorporated will have tons of visual bugs. Don't believe me? Look at DCS, and the problems there were when ED introduced it's new PBR based rendering engine, or everytime there are changes. Or how 3rd party devs are heavily affected by this. Or at RFactor 2, and the amounts of weird issues, i.e. with night lighting with addons build for the old DX9 engine.

    Third, everytime you touch SW, like the original TS, a platform where backward compatiblity is one of its biggest strength, you introduce tons of regression, and you're destined to break something, somewhere, on some addon, or combination of addons people use. It is a hell every SW developer will do its best to avoid. Because we're not talking only visuals here. We're also talking about systems the old TS just doesn't have, like a proper train brake pipe simulation.

    Stability of platform is what draws 3rd party dev onto the platform, because you know that the stuff you have been bulding for years will not suddenly stop working, because of a major engine change. TS biggest strength - it's ecosystem, and amount of dev bulding content for it, has also became its biggest anchor, because you just cannot introduce drastic changes in such enviroment.
     
  32. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Yep, there are obstacles.

    Obstacles are there to be overcome.

    I'm not buying into a defeatist attitude.
     
  33. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I have to disagree a bit. The issue I have with upgrading the current TS engine to 2020 standards is...is the time and investment worth it vs just starting fresh with Unreal like they've done with TSW? I'd argue no, because even if you do manage to bring the creaking, old TS engine up to speed...you have countless routes and trains created with the limitations of that old engine in mind. It's not going to magically make textures increase in resolution or 2D trees turn into 3D. Yes, sure, you could get better optimization, nicer lighting and shadows, etc, but those changes will only take you so far with the lower fidelity DLC that generally exists for TS.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
  34. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    Describing reality of modern game development isn't defeatism. This is a non-statement which doesn't address any of the points. Companies (those who stay afloat atleast) usually choose their next steps on feasability, wheter you like it, or not. Doing major changes to TS is not feasable.
     
  35. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Yet a small niche Czech game developer managed to do it with two titles (same self developed game engine) concurrently and for free (to the end user) and all whilst charging minimal DLC prices and frankly ridiculously cheap Steam sales many times a year.

    SCS Software, the yardstick that ALL game developers should be measured by.
     
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  36. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I despise this comparison, I'm sorry. SCS and their ETS2 cannot be compared to TS. ETS2 and ATS are orders of magnitude more popular, more widely played, and more commercially successful.

    At this very moment, there are over 41,000 players playing ETS2 on Steam. There are 2,000 playing TS. ETS2 has sold an estimated 7.5-7.6 MILLION copies. TS has sold 1.8-1.9 Million. TS is a small nice title. ETS2 and ATS are not. They are far more mainstream than you would expect for a trucking sim. There is a significantly larger player base to sell DLC to and SCS likely brings in a lot more revenue. Other than being sims, there's little to compare between TS and ETS2/ATS and SCS and DTG.

    Source: https://steamdb.info/app/227300/graphs/
     
  37. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    They didn't build a new engine, the game looks almost identical in DX9 and DX11. Afaik they didn't introduced PBR, or didn't moved to deferred rendering, just switched the rendering pipeline to DX11. They also didn't introduce any breaking functionality... like, being able to step out of the truck ;)

    Also the SCS doesn't have any 3rd party partners, or an inventory of several thoudsands of DLCs spanning a decade. I'm not trying to downplay their effort. But apples and oranges...
     
  38. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I see a lot of statements being made here with blinkers firmly on.

    The fact is, the TS engine CAN be upgraded, methods CAN be found to circumvent any compatibility issues.

    Check the latest Dirt Rally titles, 2D foliage everywhere, because it turns out, nobody cares about trees being 3D when they are flying past at speeds of over 100mph.

    It's not about IF it can be done. It's about whether anyone can be arsed to actually do something about it.

    I'm happy for sheep to stay in their fenced fields, it's what sheep do.
     
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  39. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    I am still curious as to your answer to the question, "Why?". Why dump resources in trying to modernize an old semi-broken engine vs. implement a new more turn-key one? What is the benefit other than, "because we can?". Is the only reason to keep your current DLC, which again...I'm not sure how much an updated engine would improve without the devs going back and also remastering the DLC.
     
  40. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    It's about the decades of man hours people have poured into Train Simulator (The older guys in particular, who just don't have the luxury of time to wait for TSW2 to become something decent). It's a crushing waste of so much time and effort. So much so, I have happily canned a very broken TSW2 and I'm looking to a future that sees an old engine get some overdue love and attention.

    TSW2 is the Elysium of Train Simulators. If you are well in with the dev community, DTG may give you the keys to the kingdom so you can crack on. To me, railway hobbying has never been about an exclusive community. It's all about the trains, enthusiasts sharing time and work, building things together, working as a whole. Train Simulator encapsulates those ethics. You want to build your own route? Go for it. You want to build your own loco's? Go for it. You want to share your creations with the wider world? Got you covered. TSW2 is a toy in comparison and it is legally bound by agreements which will only ever hold it back.

    Train Simulator is the mutts nuts. It's a once in a generation application, Skyrim for rail enthusiasts.

    Train Simulator has everything needed to get people away from 00 modelling and into train simming, wheras the new kid on the block, TSW, just has the purdy graphics, none of the come back appeal and players get bored to death after a few months.

    When I can build a loco for TSW2 and use it as I wish on a route in the game, then I'll pay a little more attention to TSW2. Right now, it is the best looking demo for a Train Sim around. But that's about all it is.
     
    Last edited: Oct 11, 2020
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  41. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    Hmmm I wonder how ETS2 & ATS became so popular, I wonder if it was maybe.... a happy customer base?? SCS was just a handful of people just over a decade ago and yes they now number 170 staff (and 30 freelancers) their growth is kind of the whole point of my argument, I was into truck sims when they were LESS popular than Train sims.
     
  42. Reef

    Reef Well-Known Member

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    ^ This!
     
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  43. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I wonder if it's because it was picked up by many big YouTubers, or perhaps it's because a roadtripping game has more appeal than a train sim. Just a thought.

    If TS doesn't have a happy user base, then why aren't these forums dead?
     
  44. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    Plenty of budding masochists around :)
     
  45. ntypeman

    ntypeman Well-Known Member

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    Dunkrez..

    Is that you I see wildly waving your hand in the air??? :-P

    Eric
     
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  46. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    No pain, no game :D
     
  47. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    Look, the nature of sw development is that things that can be done technically are practically unachievable. Mostly because the risk is to high and the way of mitigating these risk is not feasable. Like, you cannot expect DTG to test every DLC they have in their inventory with every major change they do to their platform. Nor are they staffed enough activelly support and fix all their catalogue.
    I also don't see independent parties like AP being to joyfull with TS being a ever-changing platform.

    DTG definitely investigated the upgrade path and found it too risky and not feasable. You cannot blame them for not taking unnecessary risk in a fragile niche segment that is train sim.

    This is just plain wrong. I.e. in TSW driving long heavy trains finally feals like driving long heavy trains. Finally you have to combine dynamics and air brakes. The dynamics are finally usable and don't wheelslip after notch 3. Finally touching the airbrakes is a commitment, and you know that if you release them, you have good 30-60 seconds before you will be able to fully use them again. You know that if you do touch them during that period, you have to decrease the pipe pressure even more, because the system is not fully recharged. Finally the actions are not instantaneous, and releasing brakes on a long train takes a while.

    This is something you just cannot experience in old TS, because there is a singular brake pipe pressure for whole train. So the moment you increase the brake pressure, by some magic the whole 1 mile long train has released brakes. Yes, some addons try to work around this, but it is always a scripted bandaid, that has its own set of issue.

    I get that people like to create and build their own model trainset in a virtual enviroment, but don't downplay other aspect of TSW just becasue you cannot create.
     
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  48. dunkrez

    dunkrez Well-Known Member

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    I wager that the upgrade path is perfectly feasible.

    TSW2 really isn't anything more to me than the app that got me into Train Simulator.

    There will be many more like me, but much less vocal.

    TSW2 is a great demo of a train sim, but that's all it is.
     
  49. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I have both and use both, I think those comments about TSW2 are a little disingenuous, once more content arrives it will become more popular, I don't get bored of it but there are a lot less routes I am interested in. It is more than graphics though, watching an AI class 08 shunting on TVL is not something you can do on TS1. I suspect eventually there will be some form of editor particularly a proper scenario editor but I suspect that could be five years away.

    TS1 does have lots more choice and the best routes can look nearly as good as a TSW route.
     
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  50. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    The trouble with TSW is that it's in its infancy. I imagine (and rather hope) the devs can make it better than TS2021 eventually. TSW's main selling point currently is graphics but I imagine, give it a few years and it'll really come to its own. Or DTG management will think it's not making enough money (though I doubt that given apparently it makes them tonnes of money on consoles)
     

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