Xbox Sand Patch Grade

Discussion in 'Troubleshooting' started by Mercy, Oct 6, 2020.

  1. Mercy

    Mercy New Member

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    For some reason the brakes are not releasing at all and i cannot figure out why. i've tried releasing all the brakes in the rear cab, checked all the fuses, parking brakes and its just not moving. Help.
     
  2. shane bridgewater

    shane bridgewater New Member

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    I have the same problem
     
  3. Stockton Rails

    Stockton Rails Well-Known Member

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    ...by rear cab, are you referring to a trailing unit connected to the lead unit at the front of the train? Or are you referring to DPU units further back in the train? And which locos are you running in this train (front pair, rear pair)?

    If you’re referring to DPU units, make sure that one unit in the DPU pair is setup to Lead with brakes Cut-in, and the other DPU unit (if present) is set to Trail with brakes Cut-out. Finally, make sure that you toggle the banking radio in the lead unit at the front of the train to Off than back On to enable banking.
     
  4. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Like above, but in table
     
  5. shane bridgewater

    shane bridgewater New Member

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    All I have tried every single brake from the front and back on the locals train and its still won't move I put the level in to first and then second and third and 4forth and it move a little abit then comes to a hult on the hill incline and restarted the game and still have a problem moving the tain it runs on flat but just don't want to go uphills
     
  6. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I did the entire SPG Journey and had no such troubles. Some services are said to be broken. Could you have written exactly which train it is on the timetable? I will check on PC :)
     
  7. shane bridgewater

    shane bridgewater New Member

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    I dont have a pc as I play on xbox but I will do tomorrow
     
  8. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    In the loco you are driving you need to set the brake Cut-off valve to Freight (or “Cut In” on the AC4400), the MU-2A valve to “Lead or Dead” and turn on the Banking Comm. You should not have to do anything in the other locos to make it work, as the banking comm sets all that up automatically when you turn it on. You can then put your reverser into forwards, release your brakes and drive off.
     
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  9. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Interesting theory. Are You 100% sure?
     
  10. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Yes. Having to walk a mile there and back to set up the rear locos would be silly which is why the banking comm system is there in the first place. It does it for you.
     
  11. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    A moment ago I did the test. It doesn't work that way for me. Half the switches had to be tweaked :(
    Maybe PC is a different story because we can insta switch cabs.
     
  12. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    So for info what exactly still needed changing for it to work?
     
  13. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Everything I left on purpose/wrong. I snapped randomly.
    4 locos config
    maybe this works only for 2?
    Tried another service - on PC, switching comm radio to ON changes nothing in MU / DPU config.
    UPDATE
    This works. Fully Fueled is just another buged broken story, but a proper short hood lead DPU is OK. Tried long hood one for the first time - it doesn't seem to work as a DPU at all.
    Good info, stujoy!
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 8, 2020
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  14. Stockton Rails

    Stockton Rails Well-Known Member

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    I did some testing today, using my functional 2x2 DPU train in Oakville Sub (2x2 meaning two groups with two locos each: a 2 loco lead consist, and a 2 loco DPU consist further back in the train). I set the MU-2A valve, the cut-out valve and auto-brake handle, the independent brake handle and the engine switches on both of my DPU locos to random nonsensical positions. I then went to the lead unit at the front of the train and turned on the banking radio and tested DPU functionality... basically throttles in the DPU pair of locos were both in sync with the units at the front of the train, but I couldn’t get the train to move an inch.

    I then checked my random settings in the DPU units to see what if anything changed after enabling the banking radio earlier. The lead DPU unit was actually fine, except my random independent brake setting was still in effect (brake was still applied). But the second DPU (the trail unit in this pair) was a mess- basically none of the random settings I had set up were corrected by enabling the banking radio earlier. Only after reverting the DPU pair of locos to the standard MU lead-trail pair (again, per reliable info I’ve seen online), and then toggling the banking radio Off then On in the lead unit up front, did I finally get the train moving again.

    So I can’t reproduce what you claim will work... maybe you’re only running a single DPU loco, who knows. If that is the case, and the indy brake wasn’t set in your single DPU, you might be fine the way you’re doing it. If you can share more info about the locos in your DPU train, that might be helpful.
     
    Last edited: Oct 13, 2020
  15. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    The DPU trains are any that I spawn in when doing timetable services in SPG, two pairs of locos. As far as I know, all sets like that work with what I have described. There is a coal loading service where the independent brake appears to need releasing manually and that is on the single rear loco. I assume that’s a bug. I’ve not thoroughly tested this it’s just what I’ve found while playing SPG and it also fits with how the locos are set up to automatically work as a trail loco by default unless you change them to lead. So both trailing locos (one in the front set and one in the rear set) will already be set to trail as default, and with the banking comm on, setting up your front leading loco to lead also sets up the rear leading loco to lead. It works the same way as in MSB but with pairs of locos instead of single ones.

    I’ve not tried assembling a train from scratch with separate locos and then seeing if it works then (I don’t have Oakville Sub btw) but I have found it does when starting services in the normal way. I also don’t know if messing with how the locos are set (and therefore changing them from their default settings) before doing the procedure will prevent it working. I would assume however that it only sets up the lead loco in the rear pair as it will be assuming that the trail will already be set up as such and so will the front trail. Maybe that’s why yours wouldn’t work in your test? Just a guess.
     
  16. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

  17. Stockton Rails

    Stockton Rails Well-Known Member

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    ...thanks for the response, Stu- sorry for not getting back to you sooner.

    To recap, it sounds like you typically run various timetable ‘Services’ in SPG, with 2x2 locos in them by default... and the trailing units in each pair of locos in these trains are already set up as trail/cut-out. Then you just configure the lead loco up front as lead/cut-in, turn on the banking radio, which then configures the lead loco in the DPU pair as lead/cut-in. And after all of this, you then have a fully functional set of DPU locos in back. Is all of that correct?

    I wonder if we’re running into some sort of issue/bug with setting up DPU locos in a Service (for you) vs. setting them up in a Scenario (for me)? That might explain it. Finally, I’ve helped numerous folks in these forums over the last month or so with DPU config in SPG under TSW 2- and the procedure I listed for them included applying baseline lead/trail MU configs to all locos before bringing up DPU functionality. I’m also pretty sure that most of these folks were also running Scenarios like me... I wonder if your DPU process would work the same if you used it in a Scenario instead of a Service?

    Anyway, respond when you have time... bottom line- continue to use whatever process works for you, and I’ll do the same. Don’t argue with success as they say. ;-)
     
  18. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for the reply. Yes we’ve both been giving advice to other players based on our own findings and there are scenarios I haven’t run yet. I’ve not tested ‘my’ method to see if I was giving people the right advice, it was just my experience with timetable services. I don’t actually know how the rear locos are set up before I press the banking comms, I assumed they were all set up as trail locos, as default. I checked with the external camera afterwards and the front rear was set to lead. The brakes all released and all locos add power. If I get round to actually testing it more thoroughly, I’ll post my findings here, but It’ll only be if I come across a scenario or service in my natural course of playing and I feel like putting in the extra effort.

    I’m going to stop posting my advice on this now it’s clear that it doesn’t work every time and although it appears to work sometimes, is it working fully? I’m never 100% sure any advice I give is correct but it’ll still be there if people search for advice on the forum and find that it works for them too.

    With instructions missing in scenario walk throughs and a lack of a procedural step by step instruction written in a manual, and despite loads of players having the same issue on the forum, nobody who actually knows exactly how it’s supposed to work (someone from DTG) explaining on the forum what to do, it’s left to trial and error from us and us subsequently giving conflicting advice to try and help everyone else. I’ve never been sure enough that what I do will work in every case because bugs also exist and setting up manually should therefore work where it doesn’t, but I gave my advice anyway. I’m hoping that if someone tries what I do and it doesn’t work, they’ll go straight to yours, which will work but is much more effort when you have to walk the length of the train to do it.

    One thing I am sure of is that we shouldn’t have to be giving the advice as often as we do.
     
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  19. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Its one reason why I havnt actually tried Sand Patch yet...there seems to be so many different ways of acheiving a solution to a huge problem. I cant face "relaxing" for an hour stressing about which switch where is required in which train to get it to move.

    All the comments on here and advice looks great.

    But is it relaxing?

    Nah.

    Lets see what IOW gives us at the end of the week!

    B
     
  20. Stockton Rails

    Stockton Rails Well-Known Member

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    ...for what it’s worth, for everyone’s benefit, here’s a page from the TSW 2020 user manual (link included) that lists the procedure that should be used when configuring (for example) SD40-2 locos in CSX Heavy Haul for DPU operation.

    Note: This procedure *is* missing a critical last step- which is to turn on the banking radio in the lead unit at the front of the train, which then enables DPU operation. If you fail to turn on this banking radio, the lead unit in the DPU set of locos will never throttle up and down in sync with the lead unit at the front of the train. Note all of the banking radios in any other locos should be left off.

    0FD3C2A4-7C93-4CE0-A83B-9B03D9DB19C2.png

    https://steamcdn-a.akamaihd.net/ste...im_World_2020_User_Manual_EN.pdf?t=1581946736
     
  21. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Unfortunately, this instruction is not correct.
    The Cut-off valve needs to be set to CUT-OFF :)
    Another HINT: for DPU settings to be correct - just turn ON Banking Comm (radio) in the locomotive in front.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 13, 2020
  22. Stockton Rails

    Stockton Rails Well-Known Member

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    Ok, let me try and clear things up once and for all on this.

    Here’s a link (below) on how BNSF actually instructs their engineers to bring up DPUs in their trains (this is basically info straight from the horses mouth here, so I pretty much trust it 100%). Note in step 2 in their process they *do* set up (or ‘condition’ as they call it) the brakes to lead/cut-in (or freight) in the controlling or lead DPU unit- they *do not* set them to lead/cut-out. Note this info is only one of the 3 reputable sources I‘ve found in my travels on the web (trying to figure out how all of this really works) that all pretty much say the same thing.

    Also note the engineers IRL *do* initially spend time in the controlling DPU unit conditioning it, and also getting some initial DPU settings configured on it (since this unit will be controlled by the lead unit up front). It’s only after this that the engineer then heads to the lead unit at the front of the train and finishes the rest of the DPU configuration from there- finally enabling DPU functionality between the two sets of locos.

    I’m not trying to be right here, guys (really)... I’m just trying to identify the actual procedure used IRL (which I think I’ve done using 2-3 reputable sources on the web at this point), and then document this info for anyone that’s interested.

    P.S. Also, remember that conditioning (or prepping) all of the locos for DPU operation just establishes a standard (or starting) config that is expected on all of the locos before DPU operation can be turned up... and maybe the DPU process, once started, then sets the brakes in the lead DPU loco to cut-out.

    https://trn.trains.com/railroads/2010/07/setting-up-locomotives-for-distributed-power-operations
     
    Last edited: Oct 14, 2020
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  23. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    In-game this has to be set to CUT-OFF so not as in the manual (lead DPU).

    My logic: only one power has to be set as cut-in - the controlled one ;) Because you can't control simultaneously both levers in separates cabs. This is a manually controlled valve. Just a theory :)

    UPDATE

    It was not so ez but I think I got the answer :)
    Page 89 (96 in .pdf) http://www.rr-fallenflags.org/manual/es44dc-om.pdf
    This is a real operating manual. It follows that only one locomotive can be set as lead. The individual chapters bring further logical conclusions.

    p. 87 for brakes settings
    p. 99 for DPU

    << [cut-in][cut-out][_____consist_____][cut-out][cut-out]

    So, the game works OK and the manual for it is wrong.
    Of course, this is only an academic discussion, because as stujoy wrote: it is enough to turn on banking comm (radio) :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Oct 14, 2020

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