This Is The Worst Game Ever. I Need A Refund

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by GlastonburyGabriel, Oct 28, 2020.

  1. GlastonburyGabriel

    GlastonburyGabriel New Member

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    I was so looking forward to playing this game and the disappointment I feel is enormous.
    I have had this bug ridden game for three days now and the only train I have managed to move anywhere is the underground train.
    As a newcomer to train sims I had hoped that there might be a bit more help. I have sat in the cab of the German high speed train for over an hour pressing every button and moving every lever and the damn thing will not move. I have played the tutorial several times, Where is the help. This realy isn't good for newbies.
    I am playing on a PC and my mouse control over where you look keeps crashing. I can still click buttons but the camera view simply freezes. Earlier I was standing next to the American freight train and when I looked up at the freight cars I started drifting forwards and inded up stuck inside the wagon unable to get out
     
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  2. eire007

    eire007 Active Member

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    I was the same when I bought train sim world 2020. I stopped playing it as it was too complicated for new people. I gave the game a miss for about a year after buying it and went back to it a year later. Thankfully I had someone to help me. But you are right., I think there should be 2 control systems 1 for easy to use and 2 for experienced players.
    I count my self as experienced but to be honest I don’t care about how many buttons a cab has. I just want to be able to drive it in a simple form.
     
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  3. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    I don't think I have seen any of the issues you describe.
    The ICE train is really not hard to move. Set the reverser to forward (small red button to the left), make sure the doors are closed, release the breaks (lever on the right side fully forwards) and then apply throttle (first left lever forwards).
    All of that is covered in the tutorial and while I agree they should be more in depth, I was always able to move the train after the tutorial.

    The camera "freeze" is intended and will activate when you right click so that you have a fixed view and can still operate the buttons and levers. Another right click frees you from the camera lock.

    Never encountered a problem in which I started to drift on foot.
     
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  4. ASRGT

    ASRGT Well-Known Member

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  5. Class395

    Class395 Active Member

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    I'm sorry but are you really complaining about a Train Sim not being simple? That's trains, they are not easy to operate as a core concept. I get your frustration as I also think that tutorials should be a bit more in depth.
    That being said, I have never experienced any of the ''bugs'' you are experiencing. As far as I'm concerned, no train is unable to move, you must be doing something wrong. I have never ''drifted'' towards freight cars and got stuck. I got about 500 miles driven on that route and a couple of hours spent in switching services. If your game is freezing all the time it might be your PC not being up to specs, check the recommended requirements and compare them to your machine.
     
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  6. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Complaining is a way of life on these forums.
    Nevertheless being able to drive my trains makes me feel super bright, so please don’t stop as my ego needs the boost.
     
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  7. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the original poster, I have lost count of the times I have had to abandon a scenario or a service because of the complicated set up of the locomotive. and the new ones are getting even more complicated. I do not understand why we who find instructions hard to understand cannot have a set up locomotive button. the purists could still go through the set up system if that is their preference. this could also apply to TS 2021.

    And by the way David complaining is not a way of life on these forums, it is customer's of DTG explaining a problem they have with their purchase. any self respecting company would welcome this.

    Mike
     
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  8. zawal.belili

    zawal.belili Guest

    If not, do the basic tutorial provided in the game perhaps before screaming scandals !!
     
  9. Class395

    Class395 Active Member

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    It's in the name: Train Simulator World. If we're playing a train simulator, I'd expect it to reflect the real thing, setup procedures and all. I think that's hardly being purist.... There is plenty of manuals or setup guides online. More arcade-like games about trains are available on steam.
     
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  10. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    This is a Strange World
     
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  11. OnlyMe1909

    OnlyMe1909 Well-Known Member

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    Curious to see how you guys gonna cope if they ever bring steam trains into the game. If you think it's complicated now, hang on to your hats...
     
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  12. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    I think this is one of the challenges DTG is trying to tackle. How does one make steam simulation realistic enough for us train nuts, but simple enough for the more casual player.
     
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  13. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I don't know if such a tactic makes sense, since such people return the game after a quarter of an hour because it "does not work" :D
     
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  14. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Don't be fooled. Not all casual players are lazy. I think any good game (and I call TSW that way because IMO it's main purpose is entertainment) is easy to learn, hard to master. Basically it's all about the learning curve. Personally I don't have the impression TSW does have a very steep learning curve, but I'm probably not the right person to judge considering my 2000+ hours playtime in Train Simulator.

    I also think it's in everyones interest that TSW is accessible to a wide public. The more people play TSW, the more income DTG has, and thus more resources to further develop TSW, resulting in more content (and hopefully more bugfixes) for all of us to enjoy.
     
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  15. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    This could be the key. I just don't know if it will fit games of this type. You can't explain every aspect of flying, driving a train, or operating a vacuum cleaner. We have to learn this ourselves :D

    PS I am my age... once the games were difficult, you couldn't ask on the Internet because there was no Internet. However, it is a bit of laziness today.
     
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  16. stijn.claessens

    stijn.claessens Well-Known Member

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    I think DTG does a great deal to keep it fun for everyone. Want to just drive a train without the real wordl safety systems? Please do.
    You followed the professor's course in SIFA, PZB and LZB? Knock yourself out with Zwangsbremsüngen :D
     
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  17. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

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    Go easy on people who are struggling with the game please. Having conducted first-time player research previously I know from experience that there are some fundamentals that simply aren't obvious to a newcomer.

    GlastonburyGabriel wants to take the ICE for a rip? Great! It really isn't the most intuitive train to get started. Advice for new players is welcome, thanks to those helping out.
     
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  18. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    Sorry to hear about your struggle with the game. It may help to start with an easy going engine. For the base game I think in Köln-Aachen I recommend to start with the BR442 Talent2. This train is easy to get moving, but you you really need to play the tutorial first.

    Once you have driven this for some time you will see that basics are the same for most engines. The engines for Sandpatch grade are much harder to drive.

    I can recommend to read the TSW2 Starters Guide, at least some parts of it, to get you going. You can download it here: https://www.hollandhiking.nl/trainsimulator

    You need to navigate tot the TSW page. There also is an extensive Route Guide for Sandpatch. If this all does not help you, please write down which controls you used, post a question here and we will see how we can help you.

    It definitely takes some time to learn how to play this game. Keep trying!
     
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  19. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    The trains in timetable are set up, usually you just need to move the reverser to forward release the brakes and apply power.

    Also a message to everyone that is clicking every button in the cab in desperation, unless you get familiar with a particular train, it might be simpler using the keyboard controls as in, reverser forward (W until in "forwards" position), release the brakes (I think "," pc players help me) and (for German trains) AFTER they release apply power with A and to decrease power D.

    I usually don't use many in cab things with the pointer...
     
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  20. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

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    Thank you. for every customer like me almost 80 who has commented, there will be more who do not come on here and will give up on the sim, customers lost. which is a shame because in the lockdown it has been a godsend.

    Mike
     
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  21. Quentin

    Quentin Well-Known Member

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    Maybe Dovetail could offer a 'train set' mode: just W/S for forward/back; A/D for faster/slower. I may be dreaming, but I seem to recall MSTS had an option similar to this. But if you think TSW is challenging for the first time player, try a modern flight sim!
     
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  22. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I will be absolutely honest: I am a staunch opponent of making anything easier (another matter, provide appropriate instructions, tutorials). Easy games get boring quickly. You can't flatten the game because a few people can't handle it. Yes, they should be helped - here is full agreement.
     
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  23. Purno

    Purno Well-Known Member

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    Train Simulator had a "Simple Control" options, basically converting it to a simple button you'd usually see in model railroads, that set the speed of the train, rather than it's power or throttle. Downside was that many trains, especially those with more advanced features, weren't properly scripted to support these simple controls, and thus only function in the "Expert Control" option, which is comparable with what we have in TSW now.

    The main difference is that the Train Simulator UI actually showed a virtual representation of the throttle, reverser and train brake handles in the HUD, which was pretty much the same for every train available. I think that makes it considerably easier to learn. The tutorials in TS were extremely basic and very repetitive, but the biggest advantages was that the basics pretty much worked for most trains. There was no real need to make a seperate tutorial for every train in the game, although some more advanced locomotives came with their own tutorials via a scenario.

    I doubt a "Simple Control" option is the way to go. The basic throttle/reverser/brake levers aren't that complicated once you know how it works. I think it provides more satisfaction and joy, than a simple, and IMO pretty boring, level that'd control the trains speed (kinda like a cruise control).

    I remember that back when I started with Train Simulator, without any prior experience, getting a train to move wasn't much of a challenge. Getting it to a stop wasn't that much of a challenge either, although it was tricky to make a proper smooth braking curve. It took me a long while to understand the German signalling system, and even longer before I dabbled into operating steam locomotives, especially with Train Simulators unforgiving scoring system in career scenarios. But even getting a steam locomotive to move wasn't that hard, using it efficient was a thoughest challenge, and the braking system comparable to the Class 101 made that tricky, but incredibly satisfying once you've mastered it.
     
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  24. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

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    The problem is that there are two ways how to write threads like this.
    Either "Can you please help me, I'm new to this game and I'm struggling" or "This the worst game I've payed for"
    One of them will get you all the help you need, because this is a passionate community, that want other people to also enjoy this hobby... The other will get you ton of flak, and very little help...well, because this is a passionate community and you just insulted their hobby ;)
     
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  25. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

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  26. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    It is in the best interests of DTG, and all of us who love this game, that new players are not made to feel abandoned. I remember vividly the frustration of a locomotive that had stopped and could not be made to move. It was awful!. This isn't rocket science, but it does require a certain amount of knowledge and skill. Would any of us be here if it did not?

    I too am a staunch opponent of making everything easier -- the complexities of managing a locomotive, dealing with safety systems or understanding different signal systems, are a significant part of the appeal here. I suspect that most of us would go elsewhere were it not for the immersive sense of realism. And I imagine that for most of us, that knowledge didn't come easily.

    DTG has some very talented people and it would be worth someone's time to write a few basic guides of the format
    1. Do this . . .
    2. Do that . . .
    3. Do some other thing.

    After all, instructions in this simplified 1, 2, 3 . . . format are already there in the form of a guided in-game tutorial for most engines. Having it in writing as well would be helpful so a noob wouldn't have to go back and run the tutorial again to figure out what she had missed.

    After all, making entry into the TSW2 world easier, without altering its delicious challenges and complexities, benefits us all. :cool:
     
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  27. michael hooley

    michael hooley Well-Known Member

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    I agree totally but the same should apply to your response. Rudolfs response is a perfect example.

    Mike
     
  28. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    This is where the "academy system" comes in. Have four or five levels of complexity built into a learning stream for each loco. Start out with the AWSD controls then add more and more complexity until you can do a full startup and move from nothing... Suggested this back in TSW0 playtesting days
    That there aren't manuals and walkthroughs even online doesn't help either
     
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  29. Crosstie

    Crosstie Well-Known Member

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    I can't say I had the problems the original poster raises. But I admit the learning curve can be steep and requires quite a lot of "stick-with-it-ness" at times. I've found a lot of help in the tutorials, on the internet and especially on the forum. To get help you need to be specific - which locomotive, which service, what and where is the problem, rather than a "throw up your hands and surrender" attitude, without specifying the actual problem. If you have a capable machine and stay with it, you'll get there and the pleasure and fun you'll have will be well worth it.
     
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  30. Class395

    Class395 Active Member

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    Exactly on point.
     
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  31. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Quite right, all I took from the post when I first read it was "worst game ever", "refund" and "bug ridden". I did think it was just another rant. I have read it again and realise it wasn't necessarily really intended as such.

    It can be quite hard when you first try and drive, the tutorials are helpful generally but I do think a simple step by step document would be helpful, sometimes you forget what it told you in the tutorial when you try and drive a scenario or service.
     
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  32. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    I'm more surprised that the OP couldn't get an ICE moving but could get a 72 stock moving, given the 72 stock is way more complex than the ICE to set up IMO.
     
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  33. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Complaining about complaining seems to be your way of life to be honest... TSW is not always the most intuitive to new players, and whilst the first post on this thread is somewhat of a knee-jerk reaction, I can understand the frustration of not being able to get things to work.

    As I've found, the basic tutorial doesn't always cover everything you need. In addition, this isn't helped by the fact some routes don't have a manual.

    I agree entirely that the game should reflect the real thing, however things can be improved to make the game more accessible for new players.

    Exactly, the lack of documentation really doesn't help things. The new Munich route doesn't have a manual, which isn't ideal for those who are new.
     
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  34. Medellinexpat

    Medellinexpat Well-Known Member

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    Part of the issue is where to get the knowledge. The tutorials are OK, but a little long winded. For example most of them seem to have you walking to the train and sitting down before you can get into the bit you want to know, how to start and move the train. Documentation has varied between the routes. These days the principal source of information for many is videos posted online. However some of us, and it made be an age thing, aren’t prepared to spend three hours watching a stream entitled ‘first impressions’. I guess the problem for video posters is that brevity means less ads, means less money! Equally spending a couple of hours watching one or more DTG staffers ‘drive’ online isn’t our idea of fun. If nothing else long streams like that take much of the joy of discovering a route on your own away.

    As most of the content on TSW is pretty tightly scripted perhaps what is needed is a help key that provides support in the context you find yourself. In a station and can’t get the train to move, a simple user requested pop up could show the steps to move the train. Stuck at a signal, same thing. It wouldn’t need a lot of work, wouldn’t use a lot of resources and might help to bridge the gap.

    As for ‘I too am a staunch opponent of making everything easier’ avoids the issue of everyone having to make a start somewhere. For many hard core train fans much of what they need to master is obvious, but that’s not true of more casual users. I’d guess that even seasoned real world Bakerloo Drivers might need just a little help to fully master an ICE locomotive.
     
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  35. stijn.claessens

    stijn.claessens Well-Known Member

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    Look up, look down, look left, look right. Would you like to invert the axis?
    No, just as wouldn't do it for all the other routes i own.
     
  36. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Like in TS - some kind of Academy.
    InGame Wiki.
    Anything.
     
  37. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Well a review of it is on the roadmap and DTG know that they've dropped the ball on this one (been in several streams)
    Absolutely no reason why there isn't a manual, walkthrough, video guide etc other than laziness on that department's behalf.
     
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  38. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    "Ask Mike"
     
  39. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Regardless of whether or not anyone else has experienced the bugs the OP mentions (and seriously, whether YOU personally have seen that bug is irrelevant. The world doesn't revolve around you and you are not the authority on TSW bugs, so just quit), I think there is a core nugget of truth here that DTG needs to take heed of.

    The game is NOT easy to get into for a lot of folks. I think the issues are two-fold:

    1. Manuals. Where are they? The fact that DTG seems to see them as some sort of optional add-on that maybe they'll get around to maybe if they have time (and if they can capture the ever elusive DTG UI artists, seldom spotted in the wild) is so insanely bush league and small time. It again comes back to: Is DTG a 100 person + company, or is it Matt, Adam, Mike, and Sam working out of Matt's basement? Because not having basic manuals for complex multi-million dollar locomotives is a "Matt's Basement" move.

    2. Tutorials that are geared towards a situation that you rarely encounter. What I mean is, how many of the initial train tutorials have we all done that teach you how to set up the train from cold and dark vs. how many times you actually have to set up the train from cold and dark in the scenarios or timetable services? You exceedingly rarely need to start the train from cold and dark, yet that's what the tutorial tries to teach you. But then next scenario it throws you into a train all set up at the platform. That is going to be confusing for new folks, especially those who have never been into train simming.

    I'm generally disappointed in the overall community in this thread. Someone new who wants to go into the genre is frustrated and struggling with the game, and the overall community responds by not helping that person, but debating the bugs they brought up and arguing over how accurate the sim should be, all while ignoring or at worst, insulting the new poster. When are people going to learn that this hobby we love, WILL NOT SURVIVE without new blood. If new people do not get into the game and genre, it will die. We NEED new people to try it and be inspired. Attacking them does not accomplish that goal.
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
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  40. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    It's a bit of a dead-end when we start to think, the competent majority of some community is to adapt to an unfledged minority. It used to be different. You had to earn "membership". I wouldn't demonize now, that some freshmen are being tortured here. Some teachers pat the children on the heads, others do not. This is also something some should begin to understand.
     
  41. LastTrainToClarksville

    LastTrainToClarksville Well-Known Member

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    @ GlastonburyGabriel:
    What electronic games do you find easy to play?
     
  42. hightower

    hightower Guest

    There are literally thousands of gameplay videos on YouTube. Go and watch others playing the game and you will pick it up pretty quickly. With the greatest will, it’s not rocket science, particularly with the bells and whistles turned off (which they are by default).

    Nothing good in this world ever comes easy. Put a but of effort in and you’ll reap the reward.

    Don’t buy a simulator though and moan that it’s the ‘worst game ever’ because you can’t be bothered to put that effort in.
     
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  43. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    No. Absolutely not. Sorry, not sorry. I fundamentally disagree. Enjoying driving fake trains on a computer is not some exclusive club or fraternity that one needs to earn their way into. That's bull.

    Realize that train simming is a niche, within a niche, within a niche in terms of hobby. In order for there to be continued development of quality train simulators there needs to be money to be made from it. For there to be money to be made there needs to be a healthy, enthusiastic community of people willing to pay for the myriad DLC pumped out to support the developers. We need more people. Acting like a college fraternity hazing newcomers and treating them like some sort of other is both CHILDISH and downright WRONG and IMMORAL on a basic human level. This attitude is absolutely toxic and should not be fostered and encouraged.
     
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  44. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    It is this niche that makes this club elite in its own way.
    Someone somewhere treating someone like that? Maybe some people have just too much imagination :)
    PS The student should sometimes be humble and put his pride in his backpack.
     
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  45. mattdsoares

    mattdsoares Well-Known Member

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    Your words buddy. You literally just advocated for that exact treatment. And this is not an elite club. We spend our free time clicking on a keyboard to drive fake trains. Perspective.
     
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  46. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Yes. But it's you who are complaining about the facts, not me. PS Besides, I agree with you! :D
     
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  47. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    It's also not very hard to make a manual, or at least a quick guide. The Class 20 one I did shortly after that was released, I knocked together in about an hour (most of which was gathering screenshots and labelling/making diagrams), with another 15-20 minutes, if that, to clean some stuff up and clarify other things. I imagine that's what the vast majority of people want from a manual, just a quick reference guide.
     
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  48. erg73

    erg73 Well-Known Member

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    Well, I can understand your frustration, but that doesn't give you the right to say that it's the worst game ever, and I'll give you my reasons.
    I'm a console player, not a PC, so although I've always liked trains I hadn't played a similar game before TSW 2020. So I looked like you, a bit lost at first and if I hadn't liked the train theme, I might have quit. But I managed to get through it. I have slowly learned more, and now I can completely disable the HUD and have all the security measures on German routes in place, which is something I find somewhat satisfying.
    It is true that the tutorials could be improved a lot so that more people can access this hobby, but at the moment this is what there is.
    This game has flaws, like everything else in life. But many people enjoy it. Give it a chance, and if you don't get ahead, this may not really be your game.
    I've been playing video games for 30 years and I can tell you without a doubt that this is one of the games I've enjoyed the most, so I'm offended that someone says it's the worst, because more than a constructive criticism, I find it disrespectful to users and above all to the developers, who are also passionate about trains and do a great job.
     
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  49. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Why should someone have to spend hours watching gameplay videos to understand how the game works?

    I totally get that it can be complicated and requires effort to learn, however all the information should be provided by DTG in a manner that actually encourages players to stick around. Pushing players away because of poor documentation is really bad, and so avoidable.
     
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  50. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    The correct pedagogical approach probably does not have some universal definition. I dream of giving birth to some meaningful mini-tutorial for beginners, but writing in English makes me very nervous ... Maybe it would be nice to create a new forum section? Tutorials? Neatly labeled, pinned. The search function is clearly not helping. No irony. Maybe.
    GlastonburyGabriel, give this game a chance. The further you go, the more relaxing it is!
     

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