Salisbury To Exeter 1989 Loco Hauled Era. May Use Again For 159 Era?

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by superb, Aug 25, 2020.

  1. superb

    superb Member

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    I'd like to see Class 50 Hoovers running from Salisbury to Exeter which is 88 miles.
    The distance is large but most of the route is single line with trains crossing at Tisbury, Gillingham, between Templecombe and Yeovil with other crossing at Chard Junction, Honiton and between Pinhoe and Exeter Central. most services in 1989 were hauled by the popular Class 50 locomotive but Class 33 & 47's were used as well. some trains were 33/1 locos with a 4 or 8 TC set. There was also a Hampshire unit to Sherborne in the evening peak as well as early Sunday turns to Yeovil Junction.
    The line would suit TSW as the train crew depots at Salisbury and Exeter would cover working to these destinations within a working system of TSW.
    There could even be an add on freight pack for MOD traffic to Dinton and UKF fertiliser trains from Salisbury to Gillingham. also ballast trains Exeter to Yeovil for weekend engineering work.

    There is a video on YouTube of a cab ride Exeter to Salisbury in 1991 to show how this line was popular with enthusiasts, I have chosen 1989 as there were some final months of 33/1 with 4TC stock to Tisbury and Gillingham in the schedule with a morning peak 33/1 2 x 4 TC and 33/1 at the rear. the leading unit and 33/1 would return to Gillingham Dorset with the 33/1 at the London end. Due to this they would detach the 33/1 and switch it to the country end of the 4TC unit for it's return to London, or Salisbury in our case.

    There are many stations with a line speed of 85mph but this was past on some occasions. Stations from Salisbury are as follows Wilton South closed but the single line starts there were some down trains wait for an up service to clear the line, Dinton closed station was next with the MOD site with 3 locations for wagons to shunt. Then comes Tisbury with the loop just before the station. Gillingham Dorset with a passing loop and fertiliser siding and civil engineers siding. Buckhorn Weston Tunnel 745 yards long then Templecombe station where after the station the line has 2 tracks with the down line being more of a long loop to Yeovil, where as the up line was signalled as reversible working where down trains could use that line to Yeovil if Templecombe was switched out late evening or early mornings and some Sundays. There's a closed station of Millborne Port at the top of an incline. The next open station is Sherborne with 2 platforms then Yeovil junction with an island platform and some Civil Engineering sidings and the connection to Yeovil Pen Mill this could be ignored for our route. Sutton Bingham is a closed station with little there but there is a large reservoir near by, Crewkerne station is next with a steep bank up to the level crossing and tunnel, then comes the closed station of Chard Junction with a working passing loop and Dairy no longer rail connected but track in situ. Axminster station is next. then the closed station of Seaton Junction platforms and building survive. then we climb the steep bank to Honiton Tunnel before descending into Honiton station with a passing loop and cripple siding. next station is Feniton with a level crossing one platform. Whimple is next with some sidings prior to 1990, The platform used is the down side at that time. then double track just east of Pinhoe station, on the last stretch passing Exmouth Junction signal box and the line from Exmouth into Black Boy tunnel through St James Park platforms served by Exmouth trains, then into Exeter Central station a shadow of it's former glory days. now we decend to Exeter St Davids platform 3 or platform 1 with a run round loop across Red Cow crossing Exeter platforms 4/5/6 can be modelled maybe even access to Exeter fuel shed via some Light engine moves.

    Now while the service was limited in those days there were things to do and see. keeping time was not easy over the hills and switch back nature of the line. I have many photos of the route, timetables, gradient profiles and there are many videos on YouTube. I would love to drive the line as it was as I know many of my friends from those heady days.
    Maybe in the future the base route could be re-purposed into SWT or SWR using 159's but that I am not so interested. yes there are more trains in the current timetable but the workings are not as interesting.
     
    Last edited: Oct 16, 2020
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  2. gibsonaj1

    gibsonaj1 Active Member

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    Superb, sounds like an amazing idea and route. You've got me rather excited now about this.Lets hope it's made into a future dlc.
     
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  3. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    Absolutely brilliant idea!
    I was wracking my brains to think of anything that runs on that route currently apart from the Class 159. But I couldn’t think of anything.
    Great idea putting it back in the past!
     
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  4. TSWx

    TSWx Active Member

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    Splendid idea. Would like something like that. Besides nice scenery on that track.
     
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  5. superb

    superb Member

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    Yes solid 159 today. there was some 170's on SWT for a while but they have gone now. Back in the days of Loco Hauled we had nearly every class of loco on tour over the route from the 1970's until the recent timetable change 37's even worked trains in the 90's but the Western has been through 56's on DC tours, 40 D200 in the late 80's so outside of the usual 33's 47's and 50's it's always had something to look at. cheers
     
  6. superb

    superb Member

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    I am a little bias as I grew up at Gillingham but yes the scenery is wonderful all along the line thanks.
     
  7. superb

    superb Member

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    Just as a taster here is a cab ride from Exeter to Salisbury the sound has been recorded from the rear cab so no AWS sounds. AWS was only fitted in the summer of 1988 on all signals. before that only the distant signals were AWS controlled. the majority of signals are 2 aspects of Red and Green or distant Yellow and green. 3 aspect signals are at Salisbury and Exeter. Note there is engineering works between Exmouth Junction and Pinhoe on this run so the train runs wrong line between those locations with a Pilotman.
     
    Last edited: Aug 26, 2020
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  8. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    Wow. That’s incredible!
    I would love to see a 50 on this route.
    A TC set would be even better. I have seen footage of a Class 50 hauling a TC, but it had to run around the train.
    The scenery is so beautiful, and the line is quite steep so it would be fun to drive.
     
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  9. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    The Class 50 is a nice idea. I'd love to see the Hoovers on a new British route. The Class 33 and 37 would also be great additions, plus we could get freight services with the Class 37s.
     
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  10. superb

    superb Member

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    37's were kind of rare before the 1990's but you could use HEA coal wagons again from Exeter SD to Exmouth Junction or into Yeovil Junction. but a 37 in scenario saving a failed loco hauled could be a one off train.
     
  11. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    Oh yes. I forgot about freight. We’re there many freight services around?
     
  12. superb

    superb Member

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    UKF fertiliser to Gillingham, a 3 portion MOD to Dinton, Coal from Didcot to Yeovil but we won't get much on that. Exeter to Exmouth Junction coal and before the period I was thinking Ballast trains on Wednesday afternoons, Empties on Tuesdays. Not much but there's running round trains in loops etc
     
  13. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    You could easily make something from that!
    Would be great to see different freight services.
     
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  14. superb

    superb Member

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    Here's another video to wet your appetite this includes Waterloo to Exeter with Ex-ScotRail 47/7's from 1992 to the end of Loco Hauled in July 1993 with some Class 50 action around Salisbury in 1990/91. 33's also feature.
     
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  15. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    This set in the 90s would be great. Would be a bit boring if it is set in today’s era.
     
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  16. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    This would be great with the old locos.
     
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  17. superb

    superb Member

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  18. superb

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    SE6.png SE7.png SE8.png SE9.png SE10.png
     
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  19. superb

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    Above I have attached a Gradient Profile of the line, Yes it does start at Hurstbourne but Salisbury is half way along that upper level (83 & 3 quarter miles) with the route to Exeter, I have also attached photos of the Wessex area signalling for the early 2000's but this was the same for the line in the 1980's/90's before LED signals installed in 2012.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  20. superb

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    I also found a more recent detailed bridge list and profile of the line (online) there is a mistake at Gillingham Dorset with the barrow crossing before the station and footbridge they are shown as 105 miles and 19 chains and the barrow is shown as 105 miles and 15 chains, this should be 105 miles and 21 chains.
    http://www.railwaydata.co.uk/linefiles/route/?ELR=BAE2
     
  21. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    Ah brilliant! The gradient details how enjoyable it would be to drive, I have to say.
    I would so look forward to some Class 50 Thrash.
     
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  22. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    I can see a few problems with this - Firstly the service in those days was pretty sparse with maybe 10 trains per day - it went every 2 hours in the 159 era later increasing to every hour from 2009 when Axminster loop opened..With the sparse service and very long single track sections there is very little AI or scenario potential
     
  23. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    Yes. I agree with that. Although arguably, if it was set in today’s era, most diversions with GWR services are pathed through Honiton and that way. Maybe that could be added to the Timetable mode?
     
  24. superb

    superb Member

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    28 trains a day more than the West Somerset Railway! yet that has been modelled, but not at a snails speed of 25mph how about 85mph permitted? with loco's hitting hills at full thrash and freight options MOD Salisbury to Dinton with 3 portions, MOD addon Rushton shunter up from Chilmark collects the wagons and shunts some at Dinton then runs to Chilmark with the rest. UKF Salisbury to Gillingham runs round shunts wagons into Shellstar loco returns to the bay at Salisbury. later goes back to Gillingham to collect. or stays at Gillingham for a run to Salisbury bound for Andover & Ince & Elton real world.
    There is also a peak DMU service from Exeter to Honiton twice a day as well as Peak services to Yeovil Junction. here are my train diagrams for the first months of 1989. 10339318_10152444603783834_4550538134932436376_o.jpg 10386973_10152444611163834_8739162847608304060_o.jpg 10403844_10152444613108834_3547174762841704555_o.jpg
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  25. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    Was there ever a timetable in the 90s or 80s where engineering works on the GW meant that the services towards Paddington had to be diverted via Honiton?
     
  26. TSWx

    TSWx Active Member

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    Perfect for dtg :)
     
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  27. superb

    superb Member

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    Constantly, However the NSE service had to terminate at Yeovil Junction as the Western or GW would take over the available paths with no through Waterloo trains. The 1980's had all the Western Region mechanical signalling being taken out for Westbury panel Bristol and Exeter panels taking over, then in the late 1980's into the 90's the DMU that fell into a Welsh river meant that every time Cowley Bridge north of Exeter flooded the Western and GW took over the line again, same with derailments or engineering works.

    Personally I'd rather not see that as the trains would be HST's running slow, mixed up loco hauled stock which DTG won't get right as a set plus all the trains running fast with some making stops when told to. I'd rather it stick to a normal service with a through train without interruption. If DTG said that 88 miles was too long then you could have the NSE trains terminate run round or shunt to the closed side of Yeovil to allow the GW trains run by but would they then show the diverted traffic?... My wish is normal working. adding the GW would cloud the end idea for me! plus the line would not be any busier for the single line.
     
    Last edited: Sep 6, 2020
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  28. fabdiva

    fabdiva Well-Known Member

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    Yes, though it's only with Axminster Loop opening that it's possible to slot both through - Plus last time I did the divert it involved a 15 minute wait at Chard Junction while waiting the 159 in front to clear Yeovil
     
  29. superb

    superb Member

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    Again I am not wishing to have Axminster Loop or 159's on this route, The period of Loco Hauled is where I would like to see made first then maybe they can repurpose it for current era. But for now not unit central thank you!
     
    Last edited: Sep 7, 2020
  30. superb

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    Changes on the line from the 1980's.
    Until 1990 there was a siding in the platform at the closed station of Seaton Junction with a siding attached at the Honiton end. also at Whimple station the down platform was open the up side was a siding loop with 2 ground frames with sidings to the old goods shed as an access for the local Whiteways Cider company. Both these sidings/loops were lifted in the summer of 1990.

    After then there were preparations for the 159's while Loco Hauled was still on the line.
    Whimple Platform was closed in 1992 the Up side was extended into the the track edge to allow use on that side, once complete they demolished the down side platform and shelter.

    Crewkerne in 1992 the platform was pushed out to the middle of the line where they extended that platform to meet the new position of the line and they extended the platform around the old signal box. This was done to give more clearance under the over bridge on the platform during the last year of Loco Hauled.

    There were other platform lengthening and alterations to the line but not as significant as at Crewkerne or Whimple until much later at Templecombe but this is beyond the era I am interested.

    Signal boxes.
    Salisbury Panel controlled the line to the Eastern end of Gillingham Loop however Gillingham controlled those points while open in operating hours. There were closed signal boxes still standing at Tisbury and the closed station at Semley Tisbury being used as a PW mess room but there was a slave panel in the relay room for Tisbury Loop.
    Gillingham signal box was mechanical controlling the station and sidings. from Tisbury off Salisbury Panel and Templecombe to the west.
    Templecombe was used as a signal box and ticket office This controlled the down loop and the up reversible line from Yeovil Junction.
    Yeovil Junction box controlled the station and the connection to Yeovil Pen Mill and to Chard.
    The next box at standing was at Crewkerne which was closed but again a mess room for the PW.
    Chard Junction was a new panel in 1982 with control for the loop. Honiton Box controlled the station.
    Until 1988 Pinhoe signal box controlled semaphore signals as did Exmouth Junction until Exeter took control. Exmouth Junction remained as a crossing box on the Branch to Exmouth.
     
  31. reluctantatom

    reluctantatom New Member

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    I would love to see this happen in TSW 2. Bring it on please :)
     
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  32. superb

    superb Member

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    Nice to hear that most in DTG have a look at this suggestion section, but do not comment.
    So with that in mind & hope they are considering it? Here's another video in the late 1980's (88/89) with some shots around Whimple with the siding in view. The coaching stock is MK2's with the same coaches used on NTP, There would be a need for BFK Brake First Corridor and some MK2's with no centre doors one of which should be a micro buffet. Formations of stock from the London end were usually 3 TSO's Tourist Standard Open coaches a Micro Buffet, 2 BFK's vans together then 3 more Mk2's at the Exeter end.
     
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  33. superb

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    Okay this needs to be confirmed and I need to look for my working TT version to be sure I have all the trains but we have 37 passenger duties along with 3 more ECS workings that is without a UKF train in and out of Gillingham or an MOD in and out of Dinton if that was to be made along side the passenger service.
    Up services:-
    2091 0512 YVJ-SAL 50 - EX 1V01
    1O11 0547 EXD-WAT 50
    ?O?? 0608 GIL-WAT 47 - EX 5V?? 0500 SAL-GIL ECS
    ???? 0616 EXD-HON 101
    1O12 0642 EXD-WAT 50
    1O14 0811 EXD-WAT 50
    ???? 0839 YVJ-WAT 33/1-4TC - (33/1-4TC-4TC-33/1)
    1O15 0940 EXD-WAT 50
    1O38 1103 EXD-PMH 50 - 0940 PLY-PMH
    1O18 1220 EXD-WAT 50
    1L10 1435 GIL-WAT 33/1-4TC
    1019 1417 EXD-WAT 50
    1021 1617 EXD-WAT 50
    1022 1736 EXD-WAT 50
    ?O?? 1812 SHE-BSK 3H (Hampshire)
    ???? 1825 EXD-HON 101 - 1727 PNG-HON
    1024 1942 EXD-WAT 50
    ?O?? 2015 GIL-SAL 33/4TC
    2094 2120 YVJ-BSK 33/4TC (Changed to class 50 summer 89 2130 YVJ-SALFX BSK-FO)

    Down services:-
    1V01 0140 WAT-YVJ 50 - SAL 0330
    2V54 0600 SAL-EXD 50
    1V07 0700 WAT-EXD 50 - SAL 0837
    ???? 0712 HON-EXD 101
    ???? 0740 SAL-YVJ 33/1-4TC - (33/1-4TC-4TC-33/1)
    1V09 0910 WAT-EXD 50 - SAL 1037
    1L05 1010 WAT-TIS 33/1-4TC - Next Working ECS 05L06 1210 TIS-SAL
    1V11 1110 WAT-EXD 50 - SAL 1237
    ???? 1203 PMS-PLY 50 - SAL 1322
    1L07 1210 WAT-GIL 33/1-4TC - Next Working 1L10 1435 GIL-WAT
    1V13 1310 WAT-EXD 50/47 - SAL 1437
    1V15 1510 WAT-EXD 50 - SAL 1637
    ???? 1537 PMS-SHE 3H - SAL 1713 Next Working ???? 1812 SHE-BSK
    1V17 1710 WAT-EXD 50 - SAL 1837
    1V18 1810 WAT-YVJ 33/1-4TC - SAL 1947 (Changed to class 50 Summer 89)
    ???? 1907 HON-EXD 101 - EX ???? 1727 PGN-HON
    1V19 1910 WAT-EXD 50 - 2037
    ???? 1920 SAL-GIL 33/1-4TC
    1V20 2030 WAT-YVJ 50 - SAL 2215 - Next Working ECS ???? 2320 YVJ-SAL
     
  34. superb

    superb Member

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    Down trains from Waterloo to Exeter with the Salisbury to Exeter enlarged. the 1810 I believe was a Yeovil Junction not Exeter service which I need to confirm with the alterations. Also at this time Network Southeast hired in 3 Class 47/4's to see if they could work the route as a possible early retirement of the Class 50's I know the 1310 Waterloo was always a 47 so I need to make enquiries to what trains were booked at the time as I've forgotten.

    0009.jpg 0001.jpg 0002.png 0003.jpg 0004.png
     
    Last edited: Oct 28, 2020
  35. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    Have they really? That is promising.
     
  36. superb

    superb Member

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    Oh yes indeed, on the live stream it has been mentioned at least twice if not more. DTG and Rivet games look, Hopefully any other 3rd party we haven't heard of are too?
     
  37. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    Yes! Let’s hope!
     
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  38. superb

    superb Member

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    I was hoping that there could be a number of layered liveries like how there are 2 versions of the 66 EWS & DB there could be 3 for the Class 50 version 1 Large Logo, Version 2 NSE later style in darker blue with a bonus GWR Green for those who liked that thing (50007 Sir Edward Elgar) this maybe achievable with better layers and memory use to add the names to the locos in the future?

    I note the WSR 33 & 52 are using in most occasions the REAL preserved collection of engines but naming the 52's has not always appeared on the game, the 33 loco's named have never shown a name but the same could be achieved from a set amount of Large Logo loco to NSE ones that would be correct at that time in 1989.

    The other loco would be a class 47/4 version 1 Large Logo (of which all 3 test loco's were) version 2 BR Blue as the NTP is but must come with main headlights. The 3rd loco would be a unit repurposing the 101 DMU for the Exeter to Honiton trains in the current livery with maybe an NSE one handed down from London to cover the 142 skippers that were sent north in 1986/7 as a second option?

    A second pack of 33/1 that's the locos fitted for push/pull work with SR pipes and jumpers at bellow window height plus a 4 car 4TC unit unpowered that needs the 33/1 the other could be the 3H Hampshire unit. (Normally the 33/1 was country end out of London with the 4TC set so as to couple up at Waterloo. the 1L07 1210 Waterloo - Gillingham - 1344 from Salisbury, was at the London end and was shunted around the train before departing East again at 1435 this would make for an easy shunt just like at Minehead now on WSR and make the game interesting using the permission from signaller etc)
    33116 at Gillingham April 1989 awaits the 1435 to London after a loco shunt from the other end to here.
    149.jpg


    After that if there is time or demand a freight pack consisting of BR blue 47's in the 47/3 range with UKF wagons and MOD VEA and VDA wagons for the two locations on the line. 33's and 47 worked both of these trains but generally it was a 47/3 in blue.
     
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  39. superb

    superb Member

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    Some more scenes from Salisbury before May 1988 with the Portsmouth - Cardiff trains still in the hands of class 33's.
     
  40. superb

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    019.jpg 089.jpg 115.jpg 167.jpg 182.jpg
     
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  41. superb

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    Above is 50029 Renown departing Salisbury. 1988
    47547 Arriving Salisbury from the West. 1988
    50042 Triumph at Salisbury 1988
    50050 Fearless departing Gillingham for Exeter 1989
    50050 Fearless at Exeter May 1989
    Next below.
    50018 at Yeovil Junction awaits the 2130 to Salisbury May 1989
    50030 Repulse arriving Gillingham Dorset 1989
    50016 Barham at Yeovil Junction awaits the 2130 to Salisbury June 1989
    202.jpg 203.jpg 011.jpg
     
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  42. superb

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    An unlisted video on YouTube posted by me of 50's around the Salisbury & Gillingham area. Enjoy the Thrash!
     
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  43. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Salisbury to Exeter in the 33/50 transition era would be superb. If 80 miles is too long I suppose either Salisbury to Yeovil Jn or Yeovil Jn to Exeter would be better than nothing. 2 hourly service not an issue as there is always something moving on the route and the experience of driving such an iconic route would more than compensate anyway.

    Anecdotally although the 50's were superb for haulage and thrash, they were on Waterloo to Exeter a bit of a nightmare for the poor old traction controller. It was not uncommon to get a chirpy phone call from your oppo at Waterloo informing you that 50xxx on the 1110 from Waterloo was "One Journey" for brakeblocks. The drivers on the route at that time had a penchant for using the straight air brake rather than the train brake with the result that blocks that should have lasted 55 hours between A Exams, erm didn't..! As the 50 fleet was intensively utilised, there were rarely spare engines available at Exeter or Laira. Sometimes Exeter shed would do a rapid BB change but more often than not some ingenuity was required to provide a fresh engine for the back working - usually "nick a DCWA", Engineer Pool 50 which technically were restricted to 60 MPH.
     
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  44. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't mind seeing Salisbury to Yeovil Junction, though I'd prefer it in the modern era for the Sprinter trains. Maybe they could do Pen Mill as well since there are shuttle services from Yeovil Junction to Yeovil Pen Mill - and Pen Mill still has semaphore signals I believe
     
  45. superb

    superb Member

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    I was thinking that being mostly single line that doing double track of 40 miles that 88 of mostly single line would be less work. I get it that the distance mean more work even if it was a single rail let alone 2. Personally I'd have 1988/89 winter when there were liveries 47 loco's on test use and the end of 33/1's & 4TC's.
     
  46. superb

    superb Member

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    I'd say that the old first then use the assests to make a modern route later on?
    Yes Salisbury Yeovil would be good for Units but I want nothing to do with 159's I hate them big time!
     
  47. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    Well I don't know anything about the process of building the routes in UE4, but I can vouch in MSTS (TSRE), Trainz and DTG RW/TS, laying track is the easy bit! Terrain texturing and placing convincing scenery out to a reasonable distance from the track takes ages. As a rule of thumb, working for a couple of hours a day on a route it would take me around six weeks to do scenery on a 25 mile stretch of route, nearer nine weeks in RW/TS. Add to that if some of the route passes through densely populated areas.
     
  48. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    I would love to see Salisbury to Exeter set during the 80's with the class 50's. I am surprised it was never covered commercially in TS1 as it is quite an iconic modernish day route, certainly one most BR diesel traction fans will be very familiar with.

    I think routes will get longer in TSW but I think it will be some time till we see a 77 mile route sadly.

    Plus the clamour for all things "modern" might mean that they will plump for a class 159 instead.
     
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  49. superb

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    50026 Indomitable on load bank... DTG your sound file is right here!
     
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  50. superb

    superb Member

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    88 miles and has to be Loco Hauled for me, but could repurpose at a later date for part route or via Westbury Yeovil Salisbury triangle as the service is at the moment?
     
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