PlayStation “sim” In The Title Is The Problem

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Samo1, Nov 4, 2020.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 1, 2020
    Messages:
    1,227
    Likes Received:
    2,758
    The Sim or game question is a dead beat argument that has no benefit regardless of who is right. There is absolutely no point in discussing this as nothing won't change as a result of it. Not for this game and not for any other game that has Sim in its name.
    It is like saying burger King can't have king in the name as they clearly are not kings. Completely ludicrous thread.
    And just because OP says that his views are the only correct ones doesn't make them correct as proven by all the other people here.

    To OP I say please stop making these absolute stupid threads that have no purpose other than boost your own ego as you are not looking for discussion but for validation of your own view points.

    To all other users I would recommend to stop feeding the troll. Ultimately this thread is just a battle for who has the bragging rights to be right just for the sake of it. It is unproductive, negative and pointless.

    I am out of this joint.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
    • Like Like x 4
  2. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    776
    appreciate your honesty and the challenges you are making. I appreciate that you feel the other games shouldn't have SIM in the title either. (That was why I asked the question, I wondered if it was general or just DTG).

    This is GENERAL, I certainly don’t have a vendetta against DTG, A game is a game, I love Gran Turismo but them calling it a real driving sim is ...

    Could this game teach a novice to drive trains up to professional standards? no, it’s great entertainment that lets players experience something the couldn’t do usually,

    Could a real world sim be used to train real world train drivers/pilots? Absolutely, this is not a real world sim, it’s a game, it’s entertainment, it’s not in-depth enough to warrant the word sim in the title but that’s of course just my opinion and I’m open to all differing views unlike some
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  3. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2020
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    957
    Just a small little question, if you're so open minded Samo1, why are you getting so worked up about people having a different opinion than yours?, that's more like a person not open minded because they can't see beyond their own opinions.....
     
    • Like Like x 1
  4. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    776
    I would pay to watch
     
  5. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    776
    I’m open to all opinions, if I never answered I would be seen as hiding and I just try to keep a conversation going
     
    • Like Like x 1
  6. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 9, 2018
    Messages:
    10,832
    Likes Received:
    10,482
    No simulator software can do this. The reason "simulators" work in real life is becuase you have a mock up of the driving environment and the controls are exact. So according to you any simulator software shouldn't have sim or simulator in the name

    If that's your opinion then fine, but that bears little to the experience of "playing" the sim. Note the word playing...
    All of these things are games and I don't think anyone (new or old) is going to be fooled into thinking there's real realism there.
    Even simulators used by train companies aren't real, because you never move...
     
    • Like Like x 3
  7. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2020
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    957
    I beg to differ, but the main point is even if it was a sim to the degree you claim a sim should be we would still be playing it, but in doing that and playing it as a game would we then have to remove the sim word of the sim that you degree would be a sim because we played it as a game, because your logic dictates that we do, because in your own words games can't be a sim, because they are only games.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
  8. Class395

    Class395 Active Member

    Joined:
    Sep 11, 2020
    Messages:
    140
    Likes Received:
    237
    I'm doing the second part lmao
     
    • Like Like x 1
  9. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    5,565
    Likes Received:
    11,444
    Should Football Manager be called Football Manager? You aren't really managing a real Football Team.

    Should Sevenoaks be renamed as it no longer has the seven oaks it was named after? Should the village of Oldswinford be renamed as there is no longer a ford at which pigs cross? Don't get me started on all those people whose surname is Taylor for whom Tayloring is not a profession!

    It is all down to semantics I suppose.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  10. Railmaster

    Railmaster Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    351
    Likes Received:
    292
    I'm curious which hair he'll find in the soup next ...:o
     
    • Like Like x 3
  11. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    As I said, no game is a simulator in the traditional sense, and so hating on DTG and TSW in particular is ridiculous, nobody in their right mind expect a software used for driver training in a 30€ console game, although the world "simulator" is now used to simply describe a game which attempts to emulate real life, and it's perfectly fine to use in this context. Because of that, claiming that the world "sim" in the title is misleading is wrong and that's the point of the OP, if you want to start a discussion "game vs sim" go ahead but it's off topic.

    For example how would you differentiate between Ace Combat and DCS? One is "simulator" one is an arcade game, but of course you wouldn't expect DCS to be used for training by the USAF....
    In this case "Simulator" in digital combat simulator just let's you know you have to read a 100 page manual before hopping in an aircraft.
    Obviously trains are simpler machine to operate so to drive realistically (no HUD and all safety systems) you might only need to read a 15/20 pages.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  12. Tomas9970

    Tomas9970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2018
    Messages:
    924
    Likes Received:
    877
    Despite all the negativity, I think that there's a point.

    DTG stated several times that they want to keep the driving simple so that an average person can "just drive" without having to worry about learning anything while more enthusiastic players can step up their game and make things harder by enabling safety features, turning off HUD, etc.

    At least from my point of view, DTG failed miserably when trying to achieve the latter in favor of making the former a better experience. We got features like objectives to stop precisely at a marker (I know there's some tolerance but that's still very precise compared to the real thing), passenger loadings that fail if you close your doors a second early, timetables that are more of a grind to meet objectives rather than a guideline, I could probably go on if I bothered to think about it a little more but you probably already know where this is heading.

    Other aspect is the trains themselves, which are built in a very similar spirit. There are very little advanced fatures that would require you to study a manual or learn something about how the train works and as a result, the achievement and the rewarding experience that come with it (something that TSW is also trying to achieve) goes out the window, all because someone somewhere wants to just press W, hold A for a second, drive away, and get that instant gratification of driving that well-known train he loves so much.

    Now if I had to show what I would consider a sim, I would look at ZUSI, MaSzyna, DCS, stuff like that. These "games" are trying to simulate their area as best as they can without trying to dumb things down for better user experience. Yes, there are things that you can enable to make things noticably easier but if you don't want to, you don't have to feel them being there at all.

    With that you may be asking. How do these games make sure their players don't get overwhelmed? It's pretty simple. They provide all the necessary tools for people to tackle the difficulty, which as a result becomes really entertaining, rewarding and not tedious.

    That's about everything I have to say at the moment. If anyone wants to dispute or expand these points in a constructive way, feel free to do so.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  13. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Is mayonnaise an egg simulation? Would eggonaise be such a simulation? No words. What does it matter what this game is called. LOL :)
     
    • Like Like x 2
  14. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    I agree with everything, certainly TSW is not Zusi3 or Run8, but it's still complete enough to warrant the title of "simulator" particulartly now when arcade games such as surgeon simulator are called like that.

    Is TSW the most realistic and comprehensive train simulation available on the market? No
    Is it on par with the best flight sims such as DCS? No

    Can it be called a "simulator" because although it's not the best is still a decently accurate representation of the real thing? Yes

    I'd like to remind you that Trainz (where you have the track layout kind of controls with a knob you can turn to go one way or another) is called Trainz Railroad Simulator...
    And looking at the bigger picture, it's up there, the title "sim" is there to let you know it's more accurate, than for example Derail Valley.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  15. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    I many aspects TSW is a better simulator than ZUSI or Run8. I play all of them.

    PS The most obvious aspect: in ZUSI / Run8 cabins are not interactive, which is probably an important part of the driver's job. I suggest the author of the thread go to the ZUSI (forum), which is a real training simulator (as long as we have physical components - the Aerosoft version is just a "game"). Such information: I think you have to complain there in German...
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 5, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  16. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    776
    Shock horror the evil one is going to give credit for the trains themselves, I have always thought they were very good but that’s a different subject altogether, just to show I’m just evil, not totally evil lol
     
    • Like Like x 1
  17. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Maybe the question mark was missing in the title. Good and bad have nothing to do with it. best regards o7
     
  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 1, 2018
    Messages:
    5,565
    Likes Received:
    11,444
    I haven't seen that one must get a copy. Does that mean I could start doing cut price operations on the cheap in my kitchen! Message me if you need your spleen removed!

    I do have car mechanic simulator, which is fun but clearly not a simulator as it was no help when trying to change the distributor on my Austin Maxi!
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  19. Winzarten

    Winzarten Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 27, 2020
    Messages:
    366
    Likes Received:
    752
    So DCS is not a simulator, because I can start the AJS Viggen in 5 steps, and be in the air in 5 minutes? Modern machines are designed on purpose to be easily operated. The difficulty of driving modern trains doesn't come from the train driving itself, but rather from operating them in a safe manner, with minimal risk of accident, in all conditions.

    This is true for all simulator, be it train, flight sim, or even racing sims. Like, how many people are doing by-the-book attack profiles in DCS?
     
    • Like Like x 3
  20. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2019
    Messages:
    6,475
    Likes Received:
    17,338
    Words can be used in many ways. Dictionary definitions don’t cover all uses of a word, not the kind of dictionary you will find online anyway. The first entry dictionary definition of simulator does not have the same weight when the word is used in the title of a game. Just like in God of War there is neither a real war nor a real god. It is just a name to give an indication of what the game is about. The same applies to any game with simulator in the title. As a genre of games, simulator games, generally known as sims, have been around for many years now and the word simulator is used for any game that simulates a type of activity, whether it be realistic (flight simulator) or nonsense (goat simulator). It’s a legitimate use of the word and misinterpreting it as conveying any more meaning than it is intended to do is the fault of the reader not the writer. How good or accurate the simulation aspects are within the game is totally irrelevant to the use of the word in the title.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  21. Tomas9970

    Tomas9970 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2018
    Messages:
    924
    Likes Received:
    877
    I thought this was about wether or not TSW simulates trains enough to satisfy us, not about wether or not it deserves having "simulator" in it's name.

    I believe that some games are called simulators as a joke. For example Surgeon Simulator, Totally Accurate Battle Simulator, etc. This is perfectly fine but TSW is not one of those games. TSW is presenting itself as something that's supposed to be close to the real thing, which means that comparing it's amount of realism to these kinds of games feels like a bad idea.

    Winzarten I believe that you can start the DCS Viggen in 5 minutes but isn't that because you learned how it works and what each step does? Of course startup difficulty isn't everything when it comes to operating a machine in it's intended role. You also have all of this that you can learn.

    Of course I don't fly by-the-book attack profiles but the game won't stop me if I'm a tiny bit off in what I'm doing and that's the point. There's no objective list that is anywhere near as strict as the TSW one and that you can only meet using game's unrealistic features.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  22. matthewbguilford

    matthewbguilford Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Apr 16, 2019
    Messages:
    1,136
    Likes Received:
    2,328
    You could argue that with any video game with “Sim” in the title but I don’t see what making a stand against it will do as you would be fighting against every video game ever released with “Sim” in the title. If you have a concern about something the game does then I can understand but I don’t think trying to make your stand because there is “sim” in the title isn’t helping you get the concerns across and I don’t think telling the community that this isn’t a simulator will work out.
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  23. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,232
    Likes Received:
    776
    literally any game that simulates something is a simulator be that construction flying mechanic and driving simulators they all simulate something from the real world
     
    • Like Like x 2
  24. Knightfire1964

    Knightfire1964 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 3, 2018
    Messages:
    1,232
    Likes Received:
    776
    so to say train sim world doesn't simulate what it's like to drive a train is just ridiculous yes it may not be totally accurate to real life it's the same with any simulator i have seen many wacky things happen or what are considered amazing simulator games
     
    • Like Like x 2
  25. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    It isn't though... if you read OP's post it's about how "sim" in the title is misleading, that's it.

    Also it's perfectly normal that an aircraft is more difficult, I've been using high quality flight sims add-ons as well such as the PMDG 737, QW 787 and Aerosoft A320. A huge chunk of those manuals explains how for example the flight control system works, checklists, how to set the various autopilot settings and modes, etc... all of which are non-existent for a train.

    I'm not saying that driving a train is so simple I could do it with no training, but once everything has been set up and ready to run it is easier than piloting an aircraft, the only thing I wish could be better simulated are the various automation, signalling and safety systems... but from what I understood they don't have any insider informations that are usually available for the developers of those high-quality flight sims add-ons.

    And while DTG made a lot of mistakes and their DLCs might not be the best quality, I dare to say that the price/quality for many DTG add-ons is, in my opinion, higher than the high end of flight-sims add-ons. Is the base PMDG 737 worth 99.99$? For me the sweet spot even for flight-simming is in the mid-high range, such as the Aerosoft A320 (~40€) where the level of detail is not much higher than a 15€ loco... but of course a mile of runway and a plane can take you anywhere and not in a predetermined 80km map, so the higher price allows you more entertainment for a similar product, and also as said before an aircraft is naturally more complicated to simulate and to pilot.

    If a TSW manual went into detail in how the traction electronics work, how the AFB determines when and how to apply power, or braking, if TSW add-ons were a bit more "advanced" allowing you to recreate every scenario and had every functionality the real loco had, each add-on would take much more time to create and would cost a lot more.

    I think this formula of recreating as well as possible the main train systems which are used on a day to day basis by the driver and leave out the more "advanced" and rarely used functionalities is the better one, particularly for a smaller company which doesn't have as much access to real life info and doesn't have the audience that will pay for those 50€ per loco DLC.

    It's just a business decision, but doesn't make the game not a Simulator, we are not talking about the difference between Ace Combat and DCS, we are more talking about the difference between an Aerosoft A320 and a PMDG 737...
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
    • Like Like x 3
  26. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    776
    A game that simulates part of an experience for entertainment purposes is not a simulator, if the GAME was a real simulator it would come with a full manual explaining every system on offer not a one page quick start guide, TSW is good entertainment that gives a basic understanding and enjoyment in driving a train but “SIM” in the title is still misleading in my opinion, any game can call itself whatever it wants to call itself but the word sim is used in this case (and other games) to make the game sound more involved and detailed than it really is, It’s a play on words, TSW is a decent game, that’s it really
     
    • Like Like x 1
  27. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    • Like Like x 1
  28. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    The problem is that this is not true, take a look at this

    https://forum.aerosoft.com/index.php?/topic/93570-why-was-a320321-not-fully-modeled/

    This is from an add-on which has 6 or 7 manuals with all the checklist and everything modeled, and if that is not a simulation I don't know what is... I'll give you some highlights:

    -Hey, I love the airbus A320/A321 and just have to say thank you Areosoft for doing such a great job with re-creating it in FSX!
    But I've always wondered why it was never fully modeled? With working fire extinguish system and the ability to operate the FTL CTL so you can get the controls back in case of an emergency.

    -Aerosoft modeled the buses to simulate the daily work of a pilot. Emergencies are (fortunately) not part of the daily life...

    -Airbus aircraft are much more complex than Boeing aircraft and Airbus themselves are not interested in supporting addon developers like Boeing does.
    Basically it is impossible with the limitied possibilities of our common flight simulator plattforms to simulate an Airbus completly with all systems, etc.
    Taking our Airbus to the level it is right now took 5 years already... taking it to a complete simulation of all systems would easily take another 5 years or more. Not to talk of the face that most users are simply not interested in simulating emergencies.
    Some may touch these things once or twice, but then never again. It is just not what our average customer wants.

    -It would raise the price to PMDG levels [as I wrote above 99.99$ for a base package] and we are not sure that's a correct thing to do. When we do our market research and ask customers how often they use a fire extinguisher system they might say they used in one time to see how it works but never after that. You are paying a lot of money to have that included. We focus on simulating the work of the pilot, not the aircraft systems. It's a flight simulation after all and not a systems simulator.

    - I would pay $100 for such a product and I believe real pilots would pay that kind of money to use for training before having to pass a real simulator exam, so why not market it towards real pilots?

    - But even then, if you ever even slightly market it for that market as you suggested, you got to back it up.
    And to be honest, I dare to doubt a pilot would use an uncertified tool for any kind of training. We worked with a lot of Airbus pilots on this project and they all see it as fun, not a serious tool even though our simulation is pretty accurate for day to day use.

    So, the Aerosoft team, the creators of Zusi3, disagree with your definition of "simulator"
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  29. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2020
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    957
    I'm genuinely amazed that so much evidence and proof that simulators in all their amazing forms for entertainment because you want to SIMULATE REAL LIFE THINGS are more than just games, and someone that started all this and claims to be so open minded about stuff CANNOT accept anything other than their own opinion, so I'm wondering are they just SIMULATING being narrow minded, the questions are pretty much endless......
     
    Last edited: Nov 5, 2020
    • Like Like x 3
  30. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    776
    I hope you all agree that “evil” Samo1 has given us
    if I’m narrow minded because I can’t accept anything but my own opinion and not yours then you are narrow minded for not accepting mine, if we all had the same opinions there would be no need for forums, so try and get your head around that if you can, hopefully it’s not to difficult to understand different people have different opinions and we are not all arrogant with arrogant opinions like some
     
  31. SBos

    SBos Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2019
    Messages:
    290
    Likes Received:
    642
    This is getting to be the most boring and pointless thread of all time.

    I
     
    • Like Like x 4
  32. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2020
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    957

    To be totally honest I'm just fascinated by your logic, because it doesn't make any sense, going by your very own logic simulators of any sort can't exist because they will always be played like games even in proper training exercises, so what are they?, what is your definition of a simulator?, you make no sense, your argument kills itself because its a oxymoron.
     
  33. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    776
    1600 plus views in a day plus over 130 posts, can’t be that boring can it?
     
  34. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    776
    Something that costs millions of pounds is a simulator, something you play on a console or PC is a game
     
  35. Costpap

    Costpap Member

    Joined:
    Oct 24, 2020
    Messages:
    76
    Likes Received:
    86
    So do you mean that TSW2 should cost millions of pounds to be a simulator? There’s a difference between a professional simulator made to train employees on operating equipment in real life, versus a simulator like this. In my opinion TSW2 is still a simulator, just not the one you’re looking for. Maybe you should really spend millions of pounds on getting a "simulator" if nothing about this "game" can make you happy!
     
  36. Ant Craft

    Ant Craft Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2017
    Messages:
    256
    Likes Received:
    529
    Completely disagree like everyone else here as well. Firstly, I play flight sims a lot, and rarely ever have I touched a number of buttons in the cockpit during normal flights. Same goes here. When doing normal things, you'd never be using all of the buttons. Secondly, flight sims are expensive! £30 for a typical airport, £100-£200 for a single plane and that's on top of the base sim being anywhere from £50-£200 depending on the sim. With Train Sim World, a typical route is £25 which also includes trains, and a typical train is £12. The trains are 10x cheaper than a typical flight sim plane, and a route is like buying multiple airports (if the stations were to represent an airport each), and you still get trains included. Train Sim World offers the most realism they can offer at such a good price point. Maybe TSW misses a few things that happen irl, but you're not paying £100s of pounds for content. I wouldn't say that having sim in the title over-sells the product at all.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  37. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2020
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    957
    So hypothetically if I went to any proper F1 team headquarters and jump on their racing simulator costing millions of any currency of your choice and just race around the circuit for fun and entertainment, have i just wiped that simulator from existence because i just played it like a racing game on my console, so therefore it now must be called a very×1000 expensive games machine because it was played on??
     
    • Like Like x 1
  38. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 9, 2019
    Messages:
    2,016
    Likes Received:
    3,448
    I don’t fully agree with this statement. Most “sim” games don’t even fully simulate the vehicles in those games. For TSW, it’s 75% “Sim”, 25% Regular Game. The Regular Game part is because DTG needs to cater towards the non railfans and people who don’t know too much about trains.

    They can definitely do better with simulating things, and they are.

    Now, for the Manuals, there’s people on YT that put up Route Guide Videos and Train Guide Videos. If you’re having trouble with a Loco in the game, go look at those.
     
    • Like Like x 3
  39. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2019
    Messages:
    601
    Likes Received:
    1,702
    I'm surprised no one has mentioned or pointed this out yet, but even professional grade simulators, the ones that are actually used to train people for certain jobs....those simulators aren't as in-depth and complicated as people make them out to be.
    I've personally had the chance to hop inside one of several simulators at my aeronautics college, this was one of those that had large projection screens and a stationary but life-sized cockpit. While that was incredibly fun and I've gained tons of experience on it, this thing is running on software thats at least a decade old, probably closer to two decades old. These simulators don't have to actually do a whole lot, their main function is for training and that's it.
    In the one I was in, this simulator had very basic and flat scenery, no AI traffic, and had very basic weather systems. The one thing it nails, is the physics and the feeling of flight. Because that's all you need for training.
    I specifically remember talking about this with my instructor, where we were discussed about how this compared to something like Prepar3D (MSFS wasn't announced yet at the time), which is something thats easily accessible to consumers. Heck, some of the other full-motion simulators we had in our lab DID run on Prepar3D.

    The point I'm trying to make here is that even professional grade simulators aren't all that amazing to begin with. They often lack in graphical fidelity, they lack in scenery, and they're often old and outdated. A point can be made that consumer products offer more depth and complexity, because it has to tackle multiple things in order to provide that immersive entertainment that we consumers want.

    In TSW, there's this awesome thing called Simugraph that honestly doesn't get talked about a lot. In the real world, it takes time for air to travel down the train in order to apply the brakes, giving this feeling of lag if you're driving a long consist. TSW simulates that. Take a look at the train while its in motion. Theres pipes and wires moving swaying. The bogeys move and jostle around. The carriages sway independent of each other.
    Theres multiple controls that you can manipulate. Throttles, brakes. Theres different kinds of signaling systems based on what country you're driving in. Sometimes it can take some time for the engine to start applying some power. It certainly provides this feeling that...yeah...theres something going on underneath the hood.

    A lot of this stuff, even if it might not be 1:1 and truly accurate, it does offer a bit of a learning opportunity. And to me, that fulfills the role of a simulator. The point is to allow the user/player to walk away having gained useful knowledge and experience and offer a bit of a stepping stone into operating the real thing irl.
     
    • Like Like x 7
  40. DTG Protagonist

    DTG Protagonist Has left the building Staff Member

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2020
    Messages:
    1,331
    Likes Received:
    7,877
    Folks, there's no universally correct answer to this question because the meaning of simulation in regard to entertainment software is entirely subjective.

    Were TSW a study-level simulation the level of ongoing interest would be around 1% of where it currently resides and the price would be 100X where it is currently.

    The same applies to Euro Truck Simulator. Or Farming Simulator. It is a sufficient simulation that it transports the user into the role they are inhabiting.

    If you want some dictionary definitions, here are 3:
    • imitation of a situation or process
    • the action of pretending; deception
    • the production of a computer model of something, especially for the purpose of study
    TSW ticks the first two examples pretty well and in places the third as well. For some players that is enough simulation to be engaging and entertaining, so others it does not. That's fine.

    This is not a topic in which you'll convince anyone they're wrong, but as long as it's making you all happy, have at it.
     
    • Like Like x 8
  41. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    776
    Morning Sam it me “evil Samo” this has been a hell of a busy post and I respect all opinions even if if mine have not been but hay ho, I can’t remember a post that exploded into action like this one has and the vast majority are happy with the level of sim provided and I’m still playing so it’s all good, “sim” is obviously a very subjective word in the games industry and also used as a marketing ploy and I understand that so it’s time to move on, on a side note I played GWR once through yesterday in the 166 from Paddington to Reading in TSW2 preserved collection and thought the overall performance and frame rate seemed better, I don’t know if it was my imagination but it was a decent experience, I will have to try the other trains and Reading to Paddington

    EXPERIENCE, that’s a good word maybe I personally won’t think of TSW as a game or sim but simply a train driving experience!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  42. breblimator

    breblimator Guest

    Widział ktoś mojego kota?
    Freaks :D
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2020
  43. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    776
    Meow
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  44. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    Oh now it's us that have been the unrespectul? If you say something that makes no sense you can't expect to be taken seriously, as said in another post it's the exact same as trying to argue calling a smartphone like that is misleading since it actually isn't smart.

    Knowing all the simulators on the market saying that calling TSW a sim is misleading it just doesn't make any sense at all.

    The whole game vs sim debate is already useless enough, but what you wrote is even worse...

    Edited by DTG Natster - Watch your language please.

    P.S.
    I am really sorry for losing my temper without any particular reason, I have apologized to the OP and shouldn't have come up with a post like this in the first place.

    Thanks DTG Natster for the heads up and I will make sure to never make a similar mistake again.
     
    Last edited: Nov 6, 2020
    • Like Like x 2
  45. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 2, 2020
    Messages:
    589
    Likes Received:
    957
    It was never a case of not accepting your opinion Samo1, it was the fact that your statements made no sense, your argument contradicted itself in the same sentence and your logic can't exist in any time, space or reality because its a oxymoron, you are just digging yourself into a massive hole because your point cannot exist.......
     
    • Like Like x 1
  46. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    776
    That’s your opinion, ok I’m not going to slate it, your entitled to it, I have made my case and I stick with it, TSW is a game/experience it’s not a simulator
     
    • Like Like x 1
  47. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    Sorry, got that wrong... what can I say? Sorry.

    I would like to echo krustynuggets' post which managed to say what I felt in a much more respectful and civil way, you'll be happy to hear unless somebody adresses me directly I will no longer post to this thread, I said what I had to say, and I don't want to pass like the one who started to turn this from "a civil thread" to a war.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Nov 6, 2020
    • Like Like x 1
  48. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

    Joined:
    Sep 2, 2020
    Messages:
    1,554
    Likes Received:
    10,981
    I do not want to lock this thread but it is currently becoming nothing more than a shouting match and I have just edited and deleted posts with completely unacceptable language which you will have been aware of before posting. Don't let me see it again or I will be handing out warnings or temporary bans.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  49. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    May 10, 2019
    Messages:
    2,662
    Likes Received:
    3,955
    Sorry
     
  50. Samo1

    Samo1 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2018
    Messages:
    373
    Likes Received:
    776
    I run my own Forum, I know what it’s like for people to try and shout down others because their view is not shared by the majority so it’s water off a ducks back to me, I have made my point and everyone else has had theirs, time to move on now with a quality game/experience without the word “Sim” in the title... Red Dead Redemption 2 although that is actually more of a sim than most games with “Sim” in the title

    all have fun and stay Covid safe! I wonder what my next post will be about? hopefully praising bug fixes and improvements to the preserved collection, now that would be good
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page