Db Br 363 Reversing And Pzb...

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Haribo112, Nov 9, 2020.

  1. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2020
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    478
    As anyone who uses PZB knows, throwing the loco into reverse gives you a blinking 1000Hz. In most large locomotives, you should not reverse but instead switch cabs. This way, you can drive without the blinking 1000Hz restriction.

    However, the new DB BR 363 only has one cab, so you can not switch. How am I supposed to drive at line speeds now??
     
  2. CowBoyWolf

    CowBoyWolf Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Sep 13, 2020
    Messages:
    2,457
    Likes Received:
    1,675
    release it?
     
    • Helpful Helpful x 1
  3. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Feb 13, 2020
    Messages:
    316
    Likes Received:
    1,171
    The 363 only goes 60km/h max, you can't go linespeed anyway.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  4. TS_trainspotter

    TS_trainspotter Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2019
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    109
    You cannot release this restricted mode, it's 100 km/h max so you're ok but no 1000hz/500hz/restricted monitoring, so less fun!
     
    • Like Like x 1
  5. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2020
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    478
    I know, but like, more than 45 kmh should be possible, even in reverse...
    Not possible, it's not restrictive monitoring (alternating 70, 85 lights), but it's a blinking 1000Hz.
     
  6. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2020
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    478
    So when driving in reverse, you basically are no longer protected by PZB?? That seems dangerous... Am I supposed to drive from Boele Gbf to Hagen Rbf without being protected ??
     
    • Like Like x 1
  7. TS_trainspotter

    TS_trainspotter Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2019
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    109
    I believe the only thing that triggers emergency braking (in this case service end) is an active 2000hz magnet (SPAD). They haven't put the return service Boele to Hagen for this reason I think, if you check there is only SH01 Hagen to Boele but no return journey as far as I know.
     
  8. Haribo112

    Haribo112 Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Oct 1, 2020
    Messages:
    306
    Likes Received:
    478
    But surely in real life this would work differently? This shunter locomotive will be driving backwards all the time, and turntables are rarely used anymore...
     
  9. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,720
    Likes Received:
    6,164
    Why should it be any different? The 1000 Hz monitoring ensures you go no faster then 45/55 km/h and you still need to acknowledge restrictive distant aspects etc. As it‘s a shunter, it‘ll rarely go faster than 40 km/h (in fact rarely faster than 30 km/h because of its shunting gear).
     
  10. TS_trainspotter

    TS_trainspotter Active Member

    Joined:
    Feb 19, 2019
    Messages:
    166
    Likes Received:
    109
    This surely protects it from overspeeding, but our point is that in reverse, no PZB is active - no acknowledging, no restricted monitoring, no 500hz when approaching reds. We were wandering if in the real word, reversing is actually done the same way or if there was a switch which forced driving backwards to act as if the loco was moving forward (so acknowledging, 500hz and so on) hope I have been clear enough, it's so difficult to explain :)
     
  11. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,720
    Likes Received:
    6,164
    I have to admit that I've never looked into the official DB documentation for reversing. Maybe I'll do that. But I do know that for the longest time (I think even now) a lot of V60s were not even upgraded to PZB 90 (the standard one today that we see used in TSW). For a shunter like this PZB is really more of an afterthought. Considering the safety distance between 2000 Hz magnets and the point in which you cross into unsafe territory (my explanation is a bit awkward in English admittedly) and the fact that with a top speed of 30 km/h (shunting gear) it's already not much faster than the lowest monitoring (25 km/h), an option to switch the direction in which PZB operates was probably not judged necessary.
     
    • Like Like x 2
  12. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Mar 19, 2020
    Messages:
    1,107
    Likes Received:
    2,885
    However, a mainline run with the 363 means you could go up to 60 kph backwards. The fact PZB doesn't protect you in such a situation is strange.
     
  13. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,720
    Likes Received:
    6,164
    I think you have to remember that the V60 was designed in the 50s when steam engines were still common. Should a V60 have a run on the mainline then I guess it was turned on a turntable of which there were many at that time. And when they weren‘t anymore you already had V100s, Br 290s etc. for mainline/branchline runs and kept V60s in the yards.
     
    • Like Like x 1
  14. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Jun 20, 2020
    Messages:
    11,736
    Likes Received:
    17,949
    It would have been rare, even back in the day, to see a V 60 on the main line. There were bigger, more powerful dual-purpose road switchers (german Geeps) for that, like the V 100.
     
  15. Maik Goltz

    Maik Goltz Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Dec 9, 2016
    Messages:
    952
    Likes Received:
    4,345
    In reverse PZB falls into a hard restricting mode with the blinking 1000hz what means 40kph max speed. I don't know if that is actually implemented in the 363, seems not. But generally you will be protected by PZB in reverse driving.
     
  16. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

    Joined:
    Aug 20, 2020
    Messages:
    3,720
    Likes Received:
    6,164
    It is.
     
    • Like Like x 2

Share This Page