PlayStation Wcml & Ecml

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Mattty May, Nov 14, 2020.

  1. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    On the stream last night, these two routes proved the most popular coming in at positions 1 & 2 respectively. Sam said that doesn’t guarantee they’ll be made, but given the huge demand for these routes, it would be foolish for DTG not to make them now.

    Given the length of these routes and that the demand varied over parts of the route, I really think DTG should find a way to bring the entire length of both routes into play. How they do that (e.g. multiple DLC’s that link up) would be up to them, but at the end of the day, I would want to drive my train from Euston or Kings Cross all the way to Glasgow & Edinburgh (and beyond). I think given the rich history of these routes it’s the only way to do them any justice. If it takes a few years, fine. But whenever the end comes, I’d like to be able to run the entire route.

    This isn’t impossible. DTG have said it can technically be done, so they should be bold and ambitious in their strategy. Think of it as any rail project and break it up into phases. At any one time, one section of the WCML and ECML could be in production whilst another unrelated route is also in production. We know from the Roadmap that DTG can work on at least three routes at any one time (HMA, SHS and the TGV line) so why not make one of them a portion of the WCML and ECML.

    I really hope they consider this. It would be an epic achievement and we’d have two epic routes to play.
     
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  2. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    I missed it, did he just say WCML was popular or a certain section of it? I’ve always liked seeing the streams on TS of WCML over Shap so would love to see that section for sure
     
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  3. Gilly

    Gilly Well-Known Member

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    Pass it on a daily basis, it's certainly an epic piece of building! They grouped together sections suggested so it was just wcml as a whole.
     
  4. Rob39

    Rob39 Well-Known Member

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    I think the Munich level of traffic combined with auto gen terrain tech that was talked about for the TGV, is reason to be optimistic for WCML and ECML.
     
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  5. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Also when I worked for BR/Regional Railways North West amongst other places I was based in new offices in Carnforth stn car park, just feet from the WCML and of course everything thundered through right next to me. Happy memories
     
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  6. Gilly

    Gilly Well-Known Member

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    AHH the days of Steamtown!
    Not to mention the location for Brief Encounter!!
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  7. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    You’ve already got WCML and ECML in TS2021. Move on to selection number three instead. Australia. There’s nothing from there in either TSW or TS.
     
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  8. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    TS 2021 isn’t TSW.
     
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  9. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    I know that. It’s not the point. WCML and ECML are playable today in TS2021. You have that option, unlike with Australian content — which doesn’t exist at all even for TS2021, yet came third on the desired content list for TSW2
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  10. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    You're in the console forum, no option to play TS2021
     
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  11. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    As though a person with a console and TSW2 can’t own a computer and a copy of TS2021 as well.
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2020
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  12. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    I mean, seriously. I bought TS2021 to drive steam. I’m sure I’m not the only person who drives both. So if I want Shap, I can get Shap. I don’t need a TSW2 version to play it today.

    But I can’t get Australian content, even with TS2021. Prioritise that, not rebuilds of the same old already-accessible content.
     
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  13. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Get Trainz... the Australian train simulator if your “once it’s in one it’s in them all” argument stands up.
     
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  14. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    WCML Crewe to Liverpool seems like the obvious choice. As Sam said in the same stream there aren’t that many station approaches that can rival Lime Street and there are the bridges over the Mersey and freight facilities in the area. Pendolino for the win.
     
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  15. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    And on that logic, rather than spamming TSW2 with ECML and WCML requests, you can just get TS2021.

    But then again, that “once it’s in one it’s in them all” argument you’ve neatly straw-manned here isn’t actually MY argument.

    MY argument is about what DTG should do with its limited time. Not what Auran offers. And who cares about Trainz anyway.
     
  16. TinTin_57

    TinTin_57 Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but you are missing the point. Go to the OP it’s about routes on TSW. You really did get out the wrong side of the bed this morning
     
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  17. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Yay. 405 miles of green lights with 7 stops in four and a half hours.
    My idea of hell
     
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  18. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    I can’t get TS2021 on a PS4 and the argument that these routes are already available there and therefore shouldn’t be made for TSW was your argument. I just extended that to include Trainz because the argument was flawed and Trainz is an Australian train sim, so flipping your argument back at you.

    You clearly didn’t like it, and that should be enough to show you that people here on the Playstation section of the forum won’t like the suggestion that Australian routes should be made before the routes this thread is about on a platform they don’t have access to because they don’t exist in TS either.

    As for spamming, hello Dr. Irony, this is not a thread about Australian routes. Go write your own instead of spamming this one.
     
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  19. Tanglebones

    Tanglebones Well-Known Member

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    WRT the original post, I really like the idea of modular routes - i.e. each one they release is stand alone, but if it naturally connects IRL to another route already released, TSW2 recognizes that and allows you to drive both as if they were one route. Again, each one could still be driven independently, but the option to drive the whole WCML, for example, would be available.

    So the more routes you buy, the longer runs you can get, but you don't have to - you can still drive each one standalone. Seems like win/win, IMO.
     
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  20. Gilly

    Gilly Well-Known Member

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    Lancaster to Carlisle would be my choice. From the Castle as you leave Lancaster to the run through the Lune gorge and Tebay before the run up and over Shap (and quarry)would make for a great scenic route. Hopefully they'd add Kingmoor TMD and (what's left of it) Kingmoor Marshalling Yard. Not much at Kingmoor now 66's and 70's mainly, but if they were to do a BR blue period it could be anything from 50's (pre electric), 25's, 26's, 27's, 40's (the legendary D200 lived here), 81-87's. You've also got the Oxenholme to Windermere branch as well the North and South junctions of the Cumbria Coast line not to mention the Western end of the Tyne Valley line and the northern end of the majestic Settle -Carlisle!
     
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  21. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    It’s amusing how people who already have access to DTG content for their preference immediately think a suggestion that another development target should be chosen is somehow a personal attack.

    The idea of “ECML vs WCML, which first?” implies the existence of a “neither” option. So here I am. My suggestion is just for all of you to relax and prepare to buy an Australian route. You might even find yourself enjoying playing a foreign route — just like every last Australian consumer of DTG products has done since year dot with every single route they’ve ever driven.

    And don’t give me this hermetic “it’s the PS4 thread so no TS2021 can be mentioned!!11!!” malarkey. The availability of DTG TS2021 content for particular UK routes has DIRECT relevance on whether DTG should invest its limited time and resource into churning an existing market toward the PS4, or instead growing the PS4 base with new customers attracted to expansion-minded products.
     
    Last edited: Nov 15, 2020
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  22. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    Precisely. Compared to NTP, nothing of any serious interest. Compare that to a winding Blue Mountains run to Katoomba, or a Sydney T1 run across the Harbour Bridge with the Opera House out your side window, or the scenic coastal runs north to Newcastle and south to Wollongong. And that’s just coastal NSW.

    You Shap Chaps don’t know what you’re missing.
     
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  23. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    I'm sure we'll see some content from Oz eventually but for now a solid Euro/US base of routes is needed.
     
  24. Gronk Honker

    Gronk Honker Active Member

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    You already have one.
     
  25. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    France traditional rail?
    Spain HS/traditional?
    Italy HS/traditional?
    Sweden/Netherlands/Switzerland?
    Amtrak?
     
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  26. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    To get back to the exact topic of the thread, I don’t think there will ever be the full route for either. It is possible to do it but the time it would take and the amount of time taken away from developing other routes are just too big a barrier. I also don’t think the end result would be worth it. I had the whole ECML in Trainz and it was largely boring just driving the mainline. The branch lines included in that version were the best bits and would make better routes for DTG to make. Making a fairly long section from Kings Cross would be good if it had enough variation in the stock used. The WCML is the same. Other than the Liverpool branch down to Crewe, I don’t know which other sections would be best for TSW. Any long stretch for the modern era would give the tilting trains a good run out but you don’t need the full route for that.

    Only a very small hardcore bunch of players would drive either route in its entirety in one sitting and very long routes aren’t the best thing a train simulator can do. I can’t see any time when either will appear fully in TSW to be honest.
     
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  27. Northlander

    Northlander Guest

    Well said...if DTG have 'content' that only exists in TS, that's got to be a viable option to port to TSW 2, so us PS4 gamers have an opportunity to run these "PC only" routes...plus at least more than 50% of the work has been done with regard to the route content, without needing to having to send a team out to map a route or build one from scratch with online resources, just port it into the Unreal engine and tweak where needed?
     
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  28. Nick Y

    Nick Y Well-Known Member

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    Currently I only own TSW2020 or TSW but I'd love to see part of the ECML put into TSW2 on console as I'd upgrade for that.
    I know most people would love York to be in but I'd like to see Doncaster, York and Leeds, especially in GNER livery.
    I'd probably drive the WCML too but I've only been on that once and that was Preston to Penrith 20 years ago.
     
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  29. Northlander

    Northlander Guest

    You could have a Newcastle to York route, could be an interesting route?
     
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  30. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    I guess it would be doable given DTG are using new more efficient tech to make routes. Newcastle to York is just over 80 miles and stops a few times, Newcastle, Durham, Darlington, Northallerton and York. You can even have different services which stop and some don't. Your looking at around a 50 minute ride time too which is pretty good.

    Someone should put together a post including pictures to suggest this.
     
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  31. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    The reason I’d like the full routes, even if it might get boring, is because they are both long routes that run more of less the length of the country. I appreciate from a gameplay point of view there might not be much to do, but that would be the case in real life too. I think it would be interesting to have the ability to run the full route at some point - made up of several DLC packs that include branch lines and depots etc. I know it’s probably wishful thinking though.
     
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  32. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Exactly, a mix of long and shorter routes would be great, everyone has different preferences and it keeps the majority happy. It's all well and good saying driving 2,3 or 4 + hours is boring and repetitive but that's what happens in real life. People don't buy Flight Simulator and fly from London to New York to skip 5 hours of the flight, most people will sit there and fly the whole route in real time because... that's what they want to do.
     
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  33. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    Here is my two pennies worth. Yes I am going to mention Cornwall...I can help it I am biased.

    I can see why people want to have the whole "set" the ability to drive for x many hours stopping and starting simulating what happens in real life. But we all know DGT are not going to do xxx mile routes (yet)

    As was mentioned above the idea of branch lines etc. These mainlines were built as the arteries, with the branch lines coming off. Its where GWE fails as there are so many branches coming off it, but all we can do is go Pad-Red all day long. Which is what doing the E/WCML would effectively entail? All the sub-routes would be ignored.

    Having spent the last few days playing TVL this effectively is the artery route with freight branches coming off it into all the mills/depots.

    This is where I like the idea of Cornwall...you have got the mainline artery going through the middle off it, but also if you could have the passenger and freight branches it would give you that " train sim world" feel?

    Anyway, Have fun.

    D
     
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  34. Stephen Crofts

    Stephen Crofts Well-Known Member

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    please do, sounds like an ideal length with nice variety
     
  35. Mattty May

    Mattty May Guest

    I suppose the real question is...

    Would a single driver take a train the whole distance from Euston to Glasgow or Kings Cross to Edinburgh?

    If the answer is ‘no’ then it’d be unrealistic for us to do so in game.
     
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  36. dave from Cornwall

    dave from Cornwall Well-Known Member

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    I believe there are at least three drivers on the mainline from PZ to Pad, so I assume something similar for the W/ECML.

    D
     
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  37. byeo

    byeo Well-Known Member

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    Probably not, but to omit a full length route form the game for that reason would be foolish.

    We could spend a long time debating what's realistic and what's not in-game (how many drivers walk track side repairing broken fences..?). The fact is, I hope we get a full length route in TSW2 eventually, whether that's by stitching 2, 3 or 4 sections together or making one full length route from scratch.
     
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  38. WVUadam

    WVUadam Well-Known Member

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    Your best option to have this experience is Train simulator not Train sim world.
     

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