If the same treatment is given to North Wales Coastal - and heck, even those who do have South Wales Coastal without the extension will have this problem - what will happen to those people owning only the one half of the route? I assume those already owning get access to the new version as well, but is that update being tied to the extension and not the original? I mean, this would explain why the title is as such: https://steamdb.info/app/376940/ Coincidentally, the North version has not had this change: https://steamdb.info/app/621928/ In my case, I have both halves of South Wales Coastal, and while I know information regarding the much needed North return is not public yet (it's more important than South given other DLC uses the path from Bristol to Cardiff already), the fact that I only own half of the route has me concerned what will happen, or whether I will be able to use my branded loco on scenarios along the full route if and when it returns. This concern may exist for some owners of half of South as well. And the final question is those getting 2017 and 2018 keys. They still get the partial route with the branded locos, obviously. I guess they would still have to buy the full route to get the other half?
That's...not much. LOL But I've been thinking about it, and recall that the smaller route still comes with the package, so it would still be a separate route. As such, the new route's scenarios would use the unmarked model. Purists would have to change out the loco on copies of the scenarios. That said, if the scenarios are the same ones from the original DLC (I assume they would be if existing owners get it as they need to still be able to use future Workshop content), then the point is irrelevant, and the only issue would be what happens to people who try to use a Workshop scenario set for the branded model. I guess someone can always skin it and say that's required in a second version using the otherwise unbranded one so that both appear branded. Here's where the problem exists, though. Look at this scenario pack. This is a paid product at ATS and includes South Wales Coastal scenarios. I know a pack at AP also uses South Wales Coastal for scenarios. Will all such scenarios work on the new version of the route? If not, you are going to cause a lot of work to have to be redone by people to make their content work, and I don't know if people are going to want to go back and revise their work. If, however, the new version of the route uses the original Steam ID, then the question is how the content will adapt to it. The hope, obviously, is that it will adapt nicely. I would then assume the Arriva version then gets moved to a new Steam sub that never gets sold. If the new version instead goes to the new ID, then scenario content will remain unusable for a lot of users coming in from now onwards. I truly hope North Wales Coastal gets a revisit using its original ID, as well, but extended to one of the two new termini I proposed (either to Trent Valley or to Shrewsbury). That would give more value to that re-release. The only issue then is that it would have to go for free to existing owners, so I guess that's not possible. I would thus suggest that extension should still be separate, and the old Holyhead extension be done as a single version that is sold WITH that extension. That way, existing owners get the existing route singled like SWC now will be, and new users get it with the new extension. That would also be a pretty good deal, but would probably be nice to have another new train included with it for the new section if there is something unique on that part. I know some might say that's not fair to existing owners, but again, that's like buying SWC at full price in 2017 and then seeing the Swansea extension later; you could argue that's not fair, as well. Bundling them would sell the much longer route a lot more. And I say this owning what would become the middle portion of the route. A final option is create and sell the longer route with the extension (for example, Shrewsbury to Holyhead), but have the unsold and unbranded version (Crewe to Holyhead) and associated scenarios download with it so you actually get the backdated version for scenario compatibility, which would also help in the Workshop mightily as there are over 150 items in there. It might need a naming clarification to identify which route segments are contained. And of course, not only would you get Holyhead's content, but throwing in the original segment's scenarios would ensure a lot of playability (and prevent people uploading alternate versions themselves that would otherwise use the whole route).
I would assume it's how Welsh Marches did it. I don't think they can use the same Steam ID as it may just push an update and remove the branding for everyone, which DTG has said they do not want to so (you paid for the branded version, therefore you should get & keep the branded version), so will be a completely seperate route with completely seperate assets as far as the game is concerned. I don't own Welsh Marches, so don't know how it effected existing scenarios, but I'd assume it'd mean creators who used SWC prior to it going down will need to modify them if necessary. DTG can't really take responsibility if they push an update (or otherwise do something with the game) and it breaks something they didn't make/publish.
The thing is, if existing owners get to keep the branded version, they would just get the new stub and the old one gets the unbranded instead. That way all route functionality is maintained from scenarios. This could be different because it's now a full route instead of two partials, however, meaning that workshop scenarios might not work anyway if they use the older version of the route. The only way to really test this, assuming all existing owners get it, is to turn off the original and then try loading a scenario from anything that uses the new, unbranded route. If the older scenario does not work, then we know 100% that the items in the workshop or attached to other DLC are useless to newer players of the route. And since there are 892 items for the original version of the route in the workshop alone (and will grow by the time others click that), compatibility must be figured out. It's worth noting this includes items created for the original South Wales Coastal. All of those scenarios go poof immediately unless you own the asset pack section by itself. Which the new version of the DLC really should be tying to the new route to make those playable since they don't use the second half in the map. (An unbranded version, obviously.) Not every designer will go back and revisit their content. Yes. I'm sure people like me could go out there and create new versions of scenarios and post them as updated versions for others to play (two people already permitted me to do this with their content, in fact, outside of the SWC part). But we shouldn't have to do that.
Elsewhere on a related thread, Dunkrez suggested that routes and branding should be decoupled. Can’t help but think that’s going to be the only way around this for future releases. There is the obvious argument that it makes it more complex. But then again I think people choosing TS over TSW are going to be ok with a little more complexity.
That causes a subset of buyers who want branded trains in routes to shy away from getting routes. Granted, there are already routes without trains or even scenarios at all (hello Metropolitan Line), so I guess every change will affect a different subset a different way. .
And we still don't know how the scenarios will work. Both the partial and full versions have different scenarios, so will we get the scenarios for just one version or both? And what about any scenarios from other DLC, like the ATW DMU pack. Will they come back?
I can partially answer that. If you're a new buyer, you will get whatever new versions of the scenarios (or even completely new scenarios, though I doubt it) come with the new version. If you have the branded version already, you get to keep the branded versions, and I suspect the new version would be a new entry on the list (I'd have to see what they did with Welsh Marches to confirm). That's why I wonder if a certain set of, I think, ten scenarios (from SWC Bristol to Cardiff) will be lost forever or if it's fair game for someone to recreate those scenarios accurately (using the unbranded 175) and put them on the Workshop using the full route, perhaps adding AI traffic coming from the other side. There would be no point "branding" the routes beyond the unbranded version, though, since existing owners already have that version. Ironically, those scenarios could even be plotted into Western Mainlines, a Just Trains route, and in some cases could even be extended from there if a path would go past Bristol.
