Game Starts To Be Boring. (vote Please,poll Inside!)

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Patrick Kolinski, Nov 29, 2020.

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  1. Definitely YES

    58.9%
  2. What you talking about? NO (We will buying everything they release.)

    41.1%
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  1. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Third party remembrances are usually inaccurate

    Normally people only get kicked from the streams when they spam or get narky, and no matter how well spoken on well meaning, posting the same thing over and over again isn't being that constructive
     
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  2. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    But if it's something new, would it be fair to get kicked from a stream?
     
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  3. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Hi, I've got a problem

    2 mins later
    Hi, I've got a problem

    2 mins later
    Hi, I've got a problem

    2 mins later
    Hi, I've got a problem

    2 mins later
    Hi, I've got a problem

    2 mins later
    Hi, I've got a problem

    2 mins later
    Hi, I've got a problem

    Which of those is the new one?
     
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  4. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That's what happens when dtg releases a products that has many problems. They did that to themselves
     
    Last edited: Dec 6, 2020
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  5. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Facts.
     
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  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    If dtg were to just release their products in a decent state, they wouldn't have so many complaints
     
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  7. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    I think you're missing the point. Spamming on a stream is bad form

    Reporting a problem and banging on about it are two different things

    But yes if they release pristine absolutely true to life everything in one shot nobody would have much to complain about
     
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  8. montes_1234

    montes_1234 Well-Known Member

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    It's ok to release with bugs or should I say it's hard not to, but what is not ok is that if you never even try to aknowledge that bugs or mistakes, that builds on bad reputation.
     
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  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Every game at lauch will have bugs. It's common in the gaming industry but when a company like dovetail has bugs that are clear as day and don't fix them before launch and you don't acknowledge the bugs or don't fix them at all like they have done in the past, there hurting their reputation and making themselves look bad as if they don't care.
     
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  10. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    All games and DLC’s are bound to have some bugs at release, but not an uncountable amount. They acknowledge some stuff, but most of the things just sit there, unfixed, and no one dares to acknowledge it. That is what upsets the customers.

    Edited by DTG Natster - Watch your language
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2020
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  11. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Ever since I started with train simulator classic way back in 2011 - 2012, the forums have always had the protagonists that predict that the company will not survive. Those sooth-sayers are usually pretty vocal and persistent in their predictions and like to support a their theories with all sort of facts. Yet the company remains.... and the trains keep rolling along.

    And over the years that the company has been screwing up by the numbers according to these business experts, the simulations has constantly improved and continues to provide many hours upon hours of entertainment.
     
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  12. treid09

    treid09 Guest

    Couldn't have said it any better LeadCatcher!
     
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  13. krustynuggets

    krustynuggets Well-Known Member

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    I'm still waiting for these people who know best to release their own train sim, because naturally its going to have a whopping fat 0 bugs, run smooth as hell and basically blow our collective brains out the backs of our skulls, I wish they would bloody hurry up, I'm getting old and have been waiting for years........
     
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  14. Callum B.

    Callum B. Well-Known Member

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    Ergo decedo. Please refrain from arguing the legitimacy of criticism on anything other than the basis of the criticism.
     
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  15. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    You know they won’t.
     
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  16. maxipolo12

    maxipolo12 Well-Known Member

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    With the delivered quality at start, we saw fortunately improvement, they only can do better - it easy to say.
    To offer a standard in the simulation world the road is still wayyyy long.

    And please do not compare with other WIP games like OMSI, bus simulator or Fernbus which are worse.
    (i take the UE Engine and think that my game would be the best of the world)

    The best example is still for me ETS / ATS, where the quality (Development, DLCS, features, ideas, Customers feedback, modding, prices, free content etc.) does not need to be justified anymore.
     
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  17. Patrick Kolinski

    Patrick Kolinski Active Member

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    Totally agree...
     
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  18. davidh0501

    davidh0501 Well-Known Member

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    Train enthusiasts are tending to the obsessional :)
    Frankly it’s brave of any software company to risk exposing themselves to our steely gaze.

    But if they don’t get the ohle right for the tgv I’ll throw a hissy fit!
     
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  19. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Agreed, and correspondingly it's OK to raise concerns, report issues and give constructive comment, but what's not OK is to bang your drum every chance you get, flood posts with the same comments or spam comments sections of unrelated videos. That gives those people a bad reputation and stops people listening to their valid concerns (if they have any)
     
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  20. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That's exactly what dtg do at times. The amount of clear bugs that sometimes they don't acknowledge or don't fix at all is what is gonna get some people clearly upset especially when you are paying for that product. Then when some people criticize dtg in a constructive manner for these reasons, they get bashed and pushed down for no reason by some people.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2020
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  21. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    Certain people here seem to think that people here offering criticism or pointing out flaws in TSW2 must somehow hate the game, in my experience it is the opposite. If you buy and enjoy a game and are prepared to go to a forum pointing out the flaws I would say you care about the game more and want it to improve no? Otherwise if you do not point out the flaws how does the game improve? hint: It doesn't.

    I have had TS for years but hardly played it and I recently bought TSW2 thinking it was a totally new game but that was my fault no-one else's but I think they should fix more core issues. Watching some of their livestreams (later on youtube) they have said they have 5 or 6 teams that work on a route, no idea how many is in a team but surely they must have someone dedicated to bugs and that, perhaps not.

    They also mentioned in one video that the best person they had for designing routes etc was the guy that did the GWE preserved route. Someone asked if he could do some foreign ones but was told he only likes to do UK ones but they are working on persuading him to do the foreign ones like there is something wrong with him. Why not put him on another UK route? I'm sure everyone has there favourite routes and the UK is popular.

    What is kind of funny is that with all these video's that frame stutter is in all of them (and has nowt to do with the streaming) but they never acknowledge it. The lack of people on the stations is another one, I've been watching other train simulators upto and over 10 years old and they had more people on the station, I think Run 8 was one. IMO the game needs some serious memory and frame optimisation and then perhaps they could add on more trains and people no?
     
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  22. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree. People who point out flaws don't hate the game because if they did, they wouldn't play the game. If nobody points out flaws, the game won't improve. If there is a guy that only likes developing u.k routes, there is nothing wrong with that. The stuttering in recent streams are apparently because of the streamers pc specs which causes lag and stuttering in the game. You would think the people who stream would have good pc's to handle ts2021 and tsw2.
     
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  23. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    If I hated the game, I wouldn't play it, which also means, I can't point out any valid issues. I actually play the game, like it, and want it to be the best it can be. That is why I report bugs, suggest improvements, and more. People think that means you hate it though...
     
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  24. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    one of the videos featured were playing the game on a new i5 cpu and a 1660 graphics card and the stutter was noticeable whereas I have an old i7 and a 1080 Ti and I do not get as much. I think someone said the CPU is just as important as the GPU if not more but then my head started to hurt, lol.

    I think the stuttering is a problem for many and hasn't really been addressed by DTG which is a shame. imo the less bugs and errors a game has is what attracts new customers and so more revenue for DTG.
     
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  25. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I hope they do address the stuttering issue in the game
     
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  26. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    OMG, it’s so bad on routes like LIRR, BKL, and HMA.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Dec 8, 2020
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  27. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I find it funny how blatantly obvious these performance issues are in the livestreams, yet they never seem to acknowledge it. Always brushing it under the carpet or turning a blind eye to it.

    Ignoring these issues is the WORST thing you could do.
     
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  28. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    For real, it’s almost like they’re showing the community they don’t care about the performance. And I somewhat feel that way. Console has gotten barely any performance enhancements, and even people on PC have been talking about their issues, even with fairly good Graphics Cards like the 1660.
     
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  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Im in the same boat as you bud
     
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  30. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    They don't do streams on consoles to not embarrass themselves I would assume. The fact that they are not even acknowledging these issues with the game and shrug it off like it's nothing shows how careless they are or that they don't care at all. They shouldn't be ignoring these issues because it can hurt their already low reputation of not addressing problems with the game. People with decent spec pc's even have these problems as well. Personally I'm starting to feel as if they don't really care since they seem to shrug the performance problems in the game away. Consoles has barely gotten any performance enhancements and this is supposed to be a "new game" for crying out loud Dovetail
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
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  31. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    I can understand how they don’t want to embarrass themselves, but ignoring these issues the community is reporting is basically slapping us in the face.
     
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  32. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    And yet certain people on these forums do not wish us to complain or let DTG know it needs fixing. I agree with Tallboy for a new game it is embarrassing. There is a thread somewhere where people are trying their own fixes by editing the engine.ini file but they should not have to do this for a new game.

    Yes I know every game gets released with bugs but the good companies out there acknowledge the bugs and try to fix them, DTG don't seem to want to acknowledge the bug. I read it is more a CPU thing and/or possible a frame rate issue with the card and game being out of sync but I would not know for sure but I bet DTG do.
     
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  33. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    It’s poor optimization by DTG. Nothing more, nothing less.
     
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  34. George1862

    George1862 Active Member

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    Even though the Lgv is a half an hour route i am still getting it.
     
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  35. DTG Natster

    DTG Natster Producer Staff Member

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    I understand it can feel frustrating when you are giving feedback and it feels like your concerns are consistently being ignored. They aren't.

    We pay attention to everything you as a community mention. Unfortunately we don't have the ability to respond to every single thread and every comment that follows, and even if we could in many cases we would be repeating ourselves and you would gain little value. We do however read everything you post and we make sure your voices are heard.

    From where you are sitting that probably doesn't fill you with confidence, but any particular problem could have a number of reasons a fix or an update is taking longer than you might like. The issue won't simply be ignored.

    As for why we tend not to stream on console, that is generally to do with us working from home and it is easier for us to stream on our PC's. We can arrange streams on console and we will aim to do more, but it requires a fair amount of forward planning as setting it up can take some time.

    Finally you should absolutely voice your frustrations and disappointments, but I have seen one or two users using colorful language in this thread, please remember to keep it clean and suitable for users of all ages.
     
    Last edited: Dec 8, 2020
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  36. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I get that your team may not be able to respond to every single thread. But the fact that this game was advertised as a "new game" and there are still performance issues that seem to be worse in the "new game" than in the old game, sound issues with a lot of of the preserved collection trains, issues that are clear as day yet the product is still released which begs the question of was the product even tested, (which most likely isn't the devs fault but instead deadlines that are put for a certain product to be released regardless of issues which sounds silly) some players having to go to the ini file to fix the game when they shouldn't have too is simply unacceptable. It seems this game was poorly optimized which doesn't make sense if the new game is supposed to improve from the old game. Not to mention that it takes such a long time to fix these problems with the game (although the reasons I assume are justifiable)
     
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  37. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    It does seem like the game was poorly optimized, and it seems like they rushed some things. I’ve noticed small improvements over the last month though. They’ve been going back and fixing the Preserved stuff, and Munich-Augsburg’s only real issue was the stuttering and lack of layers on console.
     
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  38. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    If you wait a few days for a certain cyberpunk themed game to come out you will see what a much bigger playerbase thinks to a bug-ridden mess. I predict the next week isn't going to be pretty for CDPR.

    I can see DTG have a plan, I don't always agree with the priorities - I asked in a stream last week why don't they focus on working on one thing at a time and do it properly, but at least we have some more visibility of what is going on now.

    As for the engine, I am still not sure they are as up to speed with it as you would expect. I think people underestimate the vast difference in developing for TS and TSW. Otherwise there wouldn't be so many errors and far more people actively developing for the game.
     
  39. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Hmm. Strange considering that the reviewers said the Day 1 Patch will remove majority of the bugs.
     
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  40. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    I think DTG could learn from CDPR in the way it responds to bug. CDPR have already said there is a day one patch and another patch coming on top. No game is perfect, we know that but you can judge where a companies priorities are in the way they address these bugs and errors.

    The way some TSW2 players have resorted to try and fix the game themselves is very telling and just for the record the fixes they do try doesn't work for all which is a shame.
     
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  41. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    DTG takes longer to fix things compared to other companies. We don't get day 1 bug fixes either when something is massively bugged most of the time either
     
    Last edited: Dec 9, 2020
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  42. Patrick Kolinski

    Patrick Kolinski Active Member

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    Work work work....
     
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  43. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    I really love how people still think that working conditions stay the same with Home office. People might forget at times that we live in a global pandemic situation where communication paths changed massively and a lot of companies are not only struggling on keeping up the workflow, they are also struggling on keeping the money running. That doesnt mean that criticism is not allowed anymore but my personal impression is that especially parts of this community lack empathy.
    Imagine you are a developer and suddenly you have to work from home. So all of your work has to be transferred, there is a lot to organize etc. which needs time. Then you need to re-organize the way you work, the communications, how things are updated internally etc. And then you get the feedback from the community "work faster, you are too slow, we want more for less money, give us free fixes instead of new paid content". Come on guys. These people, especially those who are living alone, have a hard time and you dont make it easier by demanding the same standards and time ratios as before the pandemic came.
    Let the devs work. If you have feedback, voice it. But voice it in a proper way. And dont forget that the devs are humans who need to eat and drink.

    And if you are not able to bring up the comprehension for the rather hard times we are in and the fact that things are needing more time now, then I strongly recommend you to change the bakery. Because toxic impatience and the greed for free stuff is not what we need in these times.

    And one or two sentences regarding the topic: Personally I would see improvements for the core game faster coming than new routes but in the end it is probably better when new routes get released. And here is the reason why: Development means that you develop things and developing is, in my eyes, learning by creating new stuff. And new routes, locos are chances for the devs to work on new features etc. Yes, in the first hand, new dlcs are looking like simple content additions. But they also reveal new possibilities to develop new stuff. And I would rather see new stuff than old stuff rebaked all the time.
     
    Last edited: Dec 10, 2020
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  44. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Well they are working as hard as they can I assume
     
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  45. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    I assume that as well.
     
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  46. dhekelian

    dhekelian Well-Known Member

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    doublefine7, No-one is saying it might be awkward but coding at home is not that much different than coding in an office. Yes there are communications obstacles but we do have mobile phones, whattsapp, video conferencing etc. These hurdles can be overcome to some degree.

    People criticise the game because they care (in the main) and the game will never improve if everyone just sat back and said 'Well Done.'
     
    Last edited: Dec 11, 2020
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  47. doublefine7

    doublefine7 Well-Known Member

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    dhekelian As you said: These hurdles can be overcome to some degree but it cant be overcome completely. Yeah, for developing it may be easier to work from home than other professions but you still have the psychological effect. Yes, you have Facetime, Zoom etc. but still: The missing personal contact IS a burden, especially for those who need the direct face-to-face contact to their colleagues in the office.
    And I didnt say that the game or the developer CANT be criticised. It is only the way you do it. Demanding criticism with harsh wording is simply unnecessary. Criticism with proper wording in a friendly way can and will be more helpful. Please stop interpreting my words as "Do never criticise the devs because insert reason here" because this is just wrong. I know there is enough to criticise and people do it more than often. But being harsh or repeating criticism a thousand times does not make the devs work faster.

    Patience and kindness my friends.
     
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  48. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    Have you ever coded or even worked as part of a team? It is a big adjustment to go from popping over to the next cubical to ask a question or bounce an idea off someone to having schedule a zoom call or whatever. Many have untold distractions at home like children, partners etc that draw attention away from concentration, while others may excel at working at home isolated, others do not.

    As one who for the last 23 years has spent 6 - 8 months on the road conducting short term training courses for governments and corporations as part of my consulting and since March having to do all business virtually, I can attest it can be done, but with a lot less effectiveness, especially in the training sector.

    So to insinuate that the global pandemic shouldn’t have affected a companies productivity is rather ingenious in my opinion.
     
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  49. ARuscoe

    ARuscoe Well-Known Member

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    Somewhat true, but there's also the point that you code something and then maybe have to check a minor detail, and rather than having the person with the answer available across a desk or on the phone you might find they're not available (or even furloughed or fired) so it's not totally that easy
    And of course gaining relevant source material such as visuals, sounds and specifics isn't as easy as jumping on a train and going there.
    I know people used to laugh at DTG for literally taking pictures of the platform textures, and that was made impossible/improbable/illegal for some of the last seven months, and given Kent is currently in a tier 3 lockdown nobody should be going out of their door unless its essential, and I doubt that counts
     
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  50. stujoy

    stujoy Well-Known Member

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    Can you hear me? Are you still there? Have you got it on mute? I can see you but I can’t hear you. Oh you’ve gone again. I can’t get that on your screen at the moment. Hang on, there’s someone at the door. Have you spoke to Nigel today, I can’t get hold of him? Yeah, I’m sorry about that, there are builders next door. My WiFi has been off for four hours. We can’t wait any longer, we’ll just start without her. I’ll ring you on my home phone. My headset’s playing up, I’m getting a new one delivered on Monday. Go away Stu, I’m trying to work.

    Just some of the things Mrs. Stujoy has said just in the last four days working from home, swearwords removed for family viewing. And that’s just communication within a small team, with no making of software involved, just wrestling with it daily.
     
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