People Aren't Sticking With Tsw2

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by heyitspopcorn, Oct 11, 2020.

  1. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Pretty much any DTG produced DMU/EMU is rubbish. Bad texturing, lacking in features, poor sounds, terrible physics in a lot of cases - the 166, 158/159, 156, 101, 321, 313, 150/1. The Pendalino is a nice model but beset with problems. It’s a long list, and there are many more examples of it.

    I completely agree with you though. Without those 3rd party providers TS1 would simply not have survived this long. With them it is still a much better game with much more variety and much more replay-ability. I forget that if you go back to stock DTG skies, tracks lighting etc for TS1 it looks awful. Again it’s the 3rd party add-ons that make it what it is.

    But rather than build on the best bits of TS1, DTG have tried to re-invent the wheel with TSW and it’s not really working. As I keep saying, it’s a good game and they are taking steps in the right direction but the steps are too small and they’re too infrequent.
     
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  2. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    Personally and I know I’ll polarise with this statement much as I find the trains enjoyable and fascinating I get bored with the a to b and nothing much happens element. Losing my dlc from tsw (Xbox) to tsw2 on pc I realised I’d lost what I enjoyed, the old British trains. I just don’t want to buy them all again.

    I will likely get tgv as I quite like the fast trains but know it will be as per above. Buying a gaming rig I find myself going to assetto corsa to drift, assetto corsa competizione for online racing and fighting a car or flight sim to see the world.
    I do love all sims but I find the above more engaging to me personally than occasional sifa warning press
     
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  3. hightower

    hightower Guest

    ...and, purely out of interest, what if TSW was much more realistic? Cold starts, driver duty days (chained services etc), variable, dynamic and even real time weather? Decent, proper tutorials and manuals?

    Would that make you more into it?
     
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  4. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Dynamic Events, Delays, Conductor/Guard Services, and real-time/dynamic weather would all be great things to see in the game.
     
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  5. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Partially unrelated but I’ve heard DTG leave third parties on a ‘waiting list’ for months, even if their product is ready to be released. Even responding to a simple query takes them an age to respond to, apparently.

    I think that’s part of the bigger picture - DTG want TSW to be ‘their’ game and are very strict with who can have access to it. The community, unfortunately, is completely locked out of it.

    So it’s a closed game with very little third party input, which results in painfully slow DLC releases.
     
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  6. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    A
    Ahh, damn, that's tuff. WHY! Well, at least it gives the Third Party dev some time to fix the bugs and stuff.

    Seems like they don't want anyone to show them up.
     
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  7. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    So you consider stuff made up to 9 years ago is poor by your standards.
    The 156 from 2016 was made by Oovee - not DTG
    The 313 from 2017 was made by Armstrong Powerhouse - not DTG
    The 158 - Release Date: 16 Aug, 2012
    The 101 - Release Date: 2 May, 2013

    TSW which only a few years old has it's faults - but I presume you ignore those
     
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  8. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    Quite, the 166 dates from 2008 and hasn't had much done to it since, although if he thinks the sounds on it are bad he should have heard them in 2008, it sounded like a clapped out Transit van! You can't really compare something from then with now.

    I think the class 313 is a perfectly good piece of DLC, sounds fine as far as I can tell, looks good and has quite a few features. As you say it isn't even a DTG product. I do have the AP 156 and 158's, but the Oovee 156 has stood up quite well to the test of time, I thought it was from much earlier than 2016 though.

    You are very wrong with your last sentence though!
     
  9. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I have to agree with what your saying. It feels like a game and a sim at the same time and it's hard to know what dtg is trying to market the game as at times. The reason why ts2021 is so successful and is still strong to this day is because of third party and community content. TS2021 is not very restrictive as tsw2 therefore people can make whatever they want in the game. In tsw2, unless you have a deal with dtg, you can't make your own routes or trains in the game

    Another thing that a flight sim and even a truck sim has over tsw2 is how dynamic they are. In flight sim, you go through a checklist, startup of a plane, shutdown of a plane. Truck sims, you start at your base, pick a job you want to do, hook the truck to the trailer and drive off. Along the way in the interstate, highway, motorway or autobahn there may be an accident, construction on the road which means you would have to slow down, dynamic weather which affects how you drive your truck, having to refuel on your trip, having to go to sleep if your doing a long journey because you are tired. Also you earn money in ats and ets which you can use to upgrade your truck, buy new trucks, hire workers and buy trucks for your workers, and the biggest thing about both games is that they you can mod them so you can add whatever you want. That adds to the dynamics of both games. TSW2 on the other hand, most routes are not full line routes so what winds up happening is you can't take trains from depots into service or out of service to depots in some routes which also means you can't start up trains to bring them into service take a train out of service and shut it down. You can't go the full way as well in most routes which causes people to ask for route extensions. You can drive in the middle of the line like in the Koln Aachen route when doing the ICE services but can't do the full line of the route from Frankfurt HBF to Brussles Midi. You don't get random things happening when doing a timetable service such as broken signals, passengers holding doors, doors getting stuck, track maintenance or construction which would require the player to slow down and I feel like these are features that should come to the game because driving from a to b isn't always smooth sailing for train drivers all the time.

    Action Points and medals seem like a gamey thing to add but the problem and I'm sure others may have with the action points system in tsw2 is that you can't use them for anything. There is no incentive to earn action points since you can't use them for anything in the game. DTG can easily make them like the money system in ats and ets where if you have a certain amount of action points, you can use those to buy custom liveries for trains that were made by dtg, or you can use them to get custom backdrops in the main menu, or you can use them to buy trains for a specific route or maybe even use action points to buy routes. (I know using action points to buy routes and trains may be a stretch considering how dtg are compared to scs but it would be a good idea maybe for trains only like how you can buy trucks in ets and ats) Also there has to be rewards when leveling up. Leveling up because you used a horn is so pointless. Maybe if you level up you can get a extra custom scenario made by dtg for a specific route by reaching a certain level in the route. There has to be an incentive to earn action points and leveling up otherwise they are just a pointless thing to have in the game.

    In terms of why players are not sticking to the game, the reasons are infinte. Nobody can really determine why a player is not playing the game as much on pc. It's all maybe this and maybe that but there can be solutions to probably bring back players to tsw2
     
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  10. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    The biggest problem with the second generation (Sprinter type) DMU's in Railworks is that the intermediate throttle notches simply act as a DCC type speed control. You can demonstrate this by coasting downhill, reach a reasonable speed (say 40 MPH), put into light power Notch 2 or Notch 3 and the train will slow down! This has affected all the classes which copy or draw from the original default Turbo DMU in Kuju Rail Simulator.

    Funnily enough this arcade type performance does not appear to have gone through to the 166 in TSW!
     
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  11. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I guess if it takes longer for third parties to release dlcs, they can make sure that they don't have so many bugs
     
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  12. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I was asking hightower but I presume you think TSW does not have any faults?
    I was annoyed with GWE and the Signalling and operating Errors that existed but DTG don't seem to bother.
     
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  13. hightower

    hightower Guest

    When they were released is largely irrelevant in my eyes. If they’re still on sale at full price (which they are) and they’re still being bundled with recent route DLC releases then it is reasonable to compare them against more up-to-date DLC. If they were being sold at 1/3rd their original RRP then I wouldn’t grumble.

    I typed my last message whilst doing other things so granted, the 156 & 313 were not DTG. I got the wrong numbers. My bad. How many more would you like me to list to demonstrate the point though? The DTG voyager, the latest HST, the original HST, the 175, 180, 377, 319, 378, 170, 172, 800, 325, 86, many diesel locos etc. All of them are naff by comparison to 3rd party equivalents and/or enhancement packs. Many of them have at least 1 major flaw (usually the sounds) but a lot of them have 2 or 3. Often that is missing features and poor physics.

    The point i’m making is that had those 3rd parties never been involved in TS people would have got fed up with the above DTG offerings a long long time ago.
     
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  14. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Which is exactly the point I’m making. TS1 is still here in spite of DTG. On the whole, route building aside, many of DTG’s offerings are way below par. With TSW there are no other options. It’s DTG or bust. That has to be a concern for anybody wishing to see this game take the place of the original Train Sim.
     
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  15. chieflongshin

    chieflongshin Well-Known Member

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    i think all these things would take away from the sometimes static element of it absolutely. I like for example the vids you see on YouTube of them starting the old diesels with smoke bellowing. Again may wear off but it’s all immersion creating and giving you more to do. Good suggestions.
     
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  16. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The Kawasaki M8 that was made by dtg for the Metro-North New Haven line sounds woefully unrealistic without a third party mod. A lot of dtg trains don't sound realistic compared to a third party sound mod to actually make them sound realistic
     
  17. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with that. There is no competition for tsw2 on consoles so it's either dtg or bust
     
  18. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    No I think it does have faults, I am just not as vocal about them as some and report ones I think need reporting.

    Overall, whilst I still prefer TS1 and spend more time on it at the moment I still think TSW is overall a good product, but it is different to TS1 and both have good and bad points.
     
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  19. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    Some sort of reward system sounds nice, although none of those suggested appeal to me particularly. We pile up levels for all sorts of thing, some of them fatuous like tooting the horn, others more relevant to the challenges players face. But if DTG were to implement such a system, what do you suggest they do about people who have accumulated significant Levels since 20 August and would most likely consider it a slap in the face to have to start over again?

    A less perfect railway with signal failures, et al. would be realistic and therefore welcome, as long as failures are not overdone or used with excessive frequency. (How often do trees fall on a DB mainline?) How does flight simulator handle unexpected events within an overall context of valuing realism? You suggested broken signals, doors getting stuck and the like. What sort of random failures do flight sims have?

    What do ats, scs, and ets mean?
     
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  20. hightower

    hightower Guest

    FWIW, I’m vocal about things on here because I’ve reported a number of issues over the lifetime of TSW and absolutely nothing has been done about any of them. I’ve waited and waited for things to get better and they don’t. The last DLC was the first sign that there may be light at the end of the tunnel, but whilst these same issues with lighting/sounds/bugs/weather/whatever exist the same problems will still be there. With each DLC release they become more and more time consuming to fix, as each and every DLC has to be done individually.

    So I’ve given up reporting things as it’s a waste of my time. I buy these products in good faith, I’m not a beta tester. Most of what I’ve reported is so flippin’ obvious anyway that even the most rudimentary of testing would have picked them all up.

    ps To neatly illustrate my point I’ve just fired the game up and been asked to sign in to Dovetail Live. Again. That must be roughly 3,577,896 times.
     
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  21. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    That is the problem with dtg. Customers report problems with their products and they don't get resolved at all for a long time which leads to people criticizing the company because of that. The fact that they are so obvious as well is what will annoy some people because it may lead to the question of "was this even tested?" They say they test things but that's not reflected in the final product most of the time unfortunately.
     
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  22. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    ATS means American Truck Simulator. ETS means Euro Truck Simulator and SCS or SCS Software are the game developer and publisher of American Truck Simulator and Euro Truck Simulator
     
  23. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    I agree, but goddamn it's hard to read all this after just waking up.
     
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  24. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Ight, here's where I stand. It's upsetting that most of the issues are never fixed, It's upsetting that the routes actually release with these issues. It's probably not the devs fault, I'd say there's like a 10% chance it actually is the devs fault. Most likely, the reason routes release with so many bugs, is because there are unreasonable time constraints.

    I'm sure they want to fully test things, but they are unable to. I like that they now have a Preserved team, that can go back and review the previous routes to stabilize them and improve them. In order to see if this Preserved Team makes a big difference, we're gonna have to wait a little more time.
     
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  25. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    And that makes me doubt they actually record all the sounds. I think most are artificially generated. The M7 starts to sound like a bullet train over 20 MPH. Since some modders can create better sounds, I wish they would contact some of them and ask if they would like to help out DTG (and get paid for it), to have the more realistic sounds in the game.
     
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  26. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    More time, fewer issues. I like that.
     
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  27. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I wouldn't see the harm in allowing modders to get good sounds so they can use those in the game because it's clear that dtg can't get sounds right in some in a lot of the time in ts2021 and tsw2. The sounds in the M3 for instance like the door closing sounds were recycled from the M7 which makes zero sense because that's so unrealistic
     
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  28. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Lol
     
  29. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Basically dtg's "Realise it now, Fix it Later" policy. The higher ups should give the devs more to make sure things are working properly before release. I don't see the harm in doing that. People would complain less and be happy and they wouldn't have to apologize for something that was clear as day that could've been released before launch. It's a win win
     
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  30. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    The M3!
     
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  31. ZeenozPlays

    ZeenozPlays Well-Known Member

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    Yup.
     
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  32. Iskra

    Iskra Active Member

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    I bought the base game, mainly to play the Preserved Collection. Unfortunately, the two British routes I would like to play most are broken (red lights on Scenario Designer) so I can't play the way I want to.

    I have no interest in the British DLC that was announced, as it's all South East England fairly boring stuff. I prefer locomotives, not units. There isn't much operational interest in these routes and scenically a lot is in tunnels.

    So I bought the base game just to have it and play the Preserved collection routes that I enjoy, which I can't physically do because it's broken, but with no intention of buying the announced forthcoming DLC because it doesn't interest me. When some decent British DLC comes along, I will probably then start playing it...

    Perhaps quite a few people did the same, bought the base game but are waiting some more interesting DLC to appear?
     
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  33. 749006

    749006 Well-Known Member

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    I might get TSW2 if a route with the Class 86 - or other early AC Electric features.
    Units everywhere is boring
     
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  34. Iskra

    Iskra Active Member

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    Totally agree. And this is where DTG have gone wrong by not releasing the editing tools for 3rd party developers to add more interesting content for more people, faster. They are stifling the game and fanbase with very slow growth, as well as their own sales.
     
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  35. Cramnor

    Cramnor Well-Known Member

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    I am not certain how the achievement percentage are calculated, but I have the feeling that every player that has the base game has ALL achievements in his list, even for add-ons the player does not own (I for example see the achievements for Eastcoastway in my steam library, but I do not own the add-on). So especially for add-ons, the percentage might be misleading (i.e. even if every player owning the DLC completed a certain achievement, it could still show something like "10% of players completed it" since the other 90% of TSW players don't own the DLC but are counted as well).
    However, since the stats you are using are quite basic and from the core game, they still seem quite low which is very surprising to me.
     
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  36. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    I agree
     
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  37. IsambardKingdomBrunel

    IsambardKingdomBrunel Well-Known Member

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    I don't do tutorials and get sick to death of TSW2 trying to force me everytime i want to run a route.
    I don't do achievements or collecting rubbish, no interest to me in the slightest.
    I am only really interested in BR and earlier period UK routes. Of which both TSW & TSW2 are lacking, compared to TS20xx, Trainz, Open Rails. So playing TSW2 on a regular basis is not a very appealing, at all. 2 or 3 times a week is enough for me.
     
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  38. pugilist3

    pugilist3 Active Member

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    Lol, you took the thoughts out of my head!
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
  39. Alexandra

    Alexandra Active Member

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    We are a diverse lot, aren't we? I think the Achievements are for the most part fatuous and haven't looked at the list in a long while. But although I don't collect stuff, I've walked several hundred Kilometers exploring the delightful and very well-done surprises the scenery designers have left for us. I enjoy this game a lot and very much appreciate the ongoing efforts the people at DTG have been making to meet the needs of a somewhat diverse, evolving, and often vocal audience. Like many people on the Forums, I probably play most days (I just got my 301st Gold Medal so you could also say I'm more of a fan than some others) even though I drive German routes almost exclusively.

    I'm not sure what to say about evaluation -- that's really a highly individual matter, isn't it? "Did you have fun?" "Was it engrossing?". I certainly am not disparaging the Achievements, but I really don't get what they are about. The medals at least attest to some degree of timeliness and stopping at or near the right place, but that's about it. Myself, I like to arrive precisely on time and within a meter or so of the Haltestelle, all the while providing my imaginary passengers a comfortable ride. But then, I'm an engineer and we like numbers.

    If TSW2 didn't fascinate me, I wouldn't be here either. :o
     
    Last edited: Dec 13, 2020
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