Rhein-ruhr Osten - Petroleum Run Issue

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Reventloff, Dec 23, 2020.

  1. Reventloff

    Reventloff Well-Known Member

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    Hello fellow train drivers! I have a problem on Rhein-Ruhr Osten playing Journey Mode Freight Run: Petroleum – Hagen Freight Yard > Wuppertal-Langerfeld Yard.
    Every time I try this service the train looses speed and stalls on 1.7% grade somewhere at 3.3km to Ennepetal. Sand or no sand - no difference. I cant figure out what Im doing wrong here. Seems the single loco is just underpowered for this consist. Maybe 1800t is too heavy for it on such long 1.7% grade? Or is this run is just bugged?
     
  2. GrayDawg

    GrayDawg Well-Known Member

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    I remember this, and I remember having a really hard time with it before I figured it out...and now I don't remember what I did to fix it. This was back in TSW2020. I'll think about it, and if I remember / figure it out, I'll make another post here. If you figure it out, please post it here. Something in the back of my head tells me there was something I had to do just before that steep uphill start. Something... something... hmm...
     
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  3. praxidike.meng

    praxidike.meng Well-Known Member

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    I tried this service with a BR185.5 and didn't have problems. Ran it with PZB U mode. It's indeed a heavy train for one loco, and I also started to lose speed very slowly on that 1.7% slope to Ennepetal, but not so much that my train would completely stop. I did however had my power handle set almost to the max, around 90% while climbing. Also notice that somewhere in the middle of that climb, the track levels out for a distance. This is the point you should apply power and gain some speed. The trick is to gain enough momentum to overcome the approaching slope. Once you start climbing, apply the power handle almost to the maximum again, so you lose speed as slowly as possible.
     
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  4. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    If you are too slow you won't be able to climb easily with just one engine. What you can try is to apply brakes to hold train at position while you increase power slowly and together with sanding to prevent wheel slip. Then release brakes gradually and increase power, but always leave a small amount of brakes applied to prevent wheels slide. It will take some minutes but you could start from the slope.

    The panic alternative is to let train slide downhill without passing the previous signal for the opposite direction and start from a position where most of the wagons are outside the slope.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2020
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  5. Reventloff

    Reventloff Well-Known Member

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    Well, I did my best maxing out the power where I could and gaining max speed before the cursed climb and.... stalled at 2.9km to Ennepetal this time. Yes, its better result, but still... It cant be that bad!! No way they would send you with no reserve power at your hand with scuh heavy load on such long grade! Its too dangerous. Once stalled in a middle of this climb - the 185.5 just wont move again at all (only down). :D
    Somebody was looking for a challenge - this is it for sure. Impossible!
    Maybe its smth with this Journey mode, I will try to start this same run in service mode next time.
     
  6. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    A few of us tried this service the other day with similar results.

    On TSW2020 you don't have this issue, as there is no variable adhesion (this was introduced in TSW 2).

    The issue also doesn't occur in service mode (there must be some slight difference in the weather), and only occurs when you use the journey mode.

    If you're using PZB, you're unable to hit the second bank at any more than about 75kph, and at this point it's impossible to make the climb. Once stalled it's hopeless, as nothing you do will get you moving.

    I don't think the sand actually helps in this case, as the lever doesn't change the amount of traction you get.

    Can anyone confirm that they've successfully managed to complete this service on TSW 2 in Journey Mode whilst following the speed limits set by PZB?
     
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  7. Reventloff

    Reventloff Well-Known Member

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    Thanks for your feedback! Im glad to get some confirmation that the problem is not my poor driving skills here :D

    And you are right, I just completed this same run in Service mode and its just a cool and easy ride there. No problem at all anywhere, good traction and solid speed gain. Just loosing a bit in speed by the end of the long climb but nothing critical at all.

    Now I can speculate that in Journey mode this run has VERY WET weather preset indeed. So its not the weight of the load (which is nothing too heavy for dry weather) but really BAD TRACTION is what causing the problem here. The wheels start loosing traction at 75-80% throttle even before the climb. Strangely the sand is doing nothing to help with that.

    P.S. I was able to complete this in Journey mode only by cheating now :o Yeah, cheating in simulator game.... smth new, I know. Just uncoupled 3 or 4 cars at the start and.... finished the service no problem. Even got GOLD (!) medal for that! Ridiculous, ha?!!! :D
     
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  8. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    That's actually what I ended up doing too (or rather, I uncouple a few wagons when I stalled). The game doesn't seem to care that you're missing half the train.
     
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  9. praxidike.meng

    praxidike.meng Well-Known Member

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    :D
    Now go back and collect the remaining cars... ;)
     
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  10. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    That is actually what is done was done in real life on North American rails - if the locomotive didn't have enough power to lift the whole train over a rise - they would section the train - drop part in a siding upon cresting - then return back for the rest of the consist.
     
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  11. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    "Doubling the hill." The first example that comes to mind is the 4% grade from Chama to Cumbres pass on the D&RGW narrow gauge. The hill was often doubled and sometimes tripled. During the time constraints of the stock rush, this was avoided where possible with 3 and sometimes 4 locomotives on a single train. Narrow gauge double headed steam up to 10,000 ft Cumbres Pass can still be witnessed today on the Cumbres and Toltec. Sorry for the digression ...

    Happy Holidays, everyone!
     
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  12. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    The normal strategy for this situation:

    - Apply the loco brake
    - Release the train brake and wait till it is fully released
    - Now apply an good amount of power, use sand when needed
    - Gradually and carefully release the loco brake a bit. when the train starts moving, release it further.

    This has a limit of course, there always will be a moment a train can no longer handle the grade.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2023
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  13. LucasLCC

    LucasLCC Well-Known Member

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    Unfortunately in this case the train just doesn't have the power. If you try and hold the train on just the loco brake, you end up sliding back down the hill. Any attempt at putting down some power (sand or otherwise) just speeds up the process of ending up back down the hill.
     
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  14. Reventloff

    Reventloff Well-Known Member

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    Thanks, good to know! And would have been great if that option was in game. Sounds like nice scenario at least.
    In general, we need more free action (and choices of actions) in services - that would make it more realistic and more fun to play in my opinion.
     
  15. OldVern

    OldVern Well-Known Member

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    As a postscript to this thread, it's not just the OP freight activity that suffers from stalling out. The second scenario which I think is called Freight Diversion, has you sit at a signal waiting for a procession of AI trains to go by, then puts you straight into a 1.4% climb and after about 1km just stalled out - impossible to get going again.
     
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  16. Reventloff

    Reventloff Well-Known Member

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    Hm, I had no problems completing Freight Diversion, mate. I guess you mean some other service, cause I met no red signals at all in this particular scenario :D And they give us 2x 185.5 for 1800t consist - solid reserve of power for any climb there.

    P.S. Just finished the whole Freight Journey on Rhein-Ruhr Osten, so the only issue I met was on the mentioned Petroleum service.
     
  17. smokeyloco

    smokeyloco New Member

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    Some services also fail in bad weather, you have no chance to climb those hills. Why did they allow this?
     
  18. OpenMinded

    OpenMinded Well-Known Member

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  19. ryan#1234

    ryan#1234 Member

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    It's February 6, 2023...

    I can confirm that this is still an issue.

    The only way to complete the Journey mode version is to leave 5 cars behind in Hagen.

    It most definitely is a combination of adhesion, 100% wetness, and a single 185 trying to pull 1878t up a 1.9% grade. Someone in this thread: https://forums.dovetailgames.com/threads/rro-petroleum-br185.32320/ did the research about how much the 185 could pull on this route and for sure, this consist is too heavy.

    I would also point out that this will also fail in Service Mode with dynamic weather. I tried it and the randomized wetness was to much and the train couldn't cope at the same point as in the Journey. However, running this in Service Mode with custom 'clear' weather in August does work out, but in reality it'd be a pretty big risk to take. You absolutely need your throttle to work in 8 and 9.
     
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