Anyone else think an opportunity was missed here? There's already a Trent Valley route, so why not link that up with London, and extend it from Stafford to perhaps Crewe? Why Euston to Birmingham? Glasgow to London Pendolinos don't go via Birmingham, so when the WCML is finally all linked up, we'll have an unrealistic representation of it, with all 390s going via Birmingham... which doesn't happen in reality. I know there's a great deal more to the WCML than 390s, but Glasgow to Euston via Stafford kind of IS the WCML so far as anyone who does that journey is concerned, and there is no Avanti 390 service from Glasgow to Euston that goes via Birmingham. And yes, I know DTG aren't obliged to make routes with future 3rd party considerations or merges in mind before anyone says that. I just think doing the above would have been better. I'd rather drive from Euston to Crewe than Euston to Birmingham. Plus, why aren't DTG planning ahead? Even if they won't merge their own routes, people may still want to drive the WCML in stages... but the CORRECT route.
I believe the biggest hurdle here is that WCML TV is NOT a DTG product but a Thomson interactive one, and they won't let people publish their stuff or use it in any way other than what they themselves put out... ATS are doing a good job in getting the whole thing lined up anyway so there WILL be a merge and you intercity people can run five hours of greens all you want
Well that sucks then. Yes, but it will use WCML South, so you'd be driving Glasgow to Euston via Birmingham: No such Glasgow-Euston Pendolino service exists - they all go via Trent Valley. As for 5 hours of greens, that would be down to who creates the scenarios and how boring they are. I don't see why anyone would want to drive the whole WCML when it would not be a real life route.
Phase 1 – Stafford to Liverpool – Release 04 Aug 2019 Phase 2 – Sandwell & Dudley to Wigan Northwestern – Release 04 May 2020 Phase 3 – Extension to Birmingham and Preston – Release 19 Dec 2020 Phase 4 – Stoke Loop Phase 4a – Rugeley Trent Valley to Manchester Piccadilly via Stoke-on-Trent Phase 5 – Rugby – Rugeley Trent Valley Phase 5 is the key, this should mean that a merge with WCML south (either their own version or DTG's) will then be able to go all the way to Preston and link with WCML North, bypassing the Thomson limitation
Have a look at a Timetable before giving out wrong information From Virgin days there has been two Euston Scotland trains each way every hour One, as you say runs non-stop via the Trent Valley between Euston and Preston and stations to Glasgow The second runs via Birmingham New St and on some hours goes to Glasgow and on others to Edinburgh As such they use the same track from Carstairs to Stafford and south of Rugby Peter
I see that improving your inter-personal skills wasn't one of your new year's resolutions then I got the information by going to the Avanti website, and trying to book a train from Glasgow to Euston via Birmingham without changing and it didn't return a single journey. If I'm wrong.. then good actually, I'm glad that I'm wrong, but please just stop being rude.
I’d recommend it if you don’t have it. Phase 3 was recently released and was the catalyst for me finally pulling the trigger on WCMLS. When it is merged it will be merged to the DTG route. With the subscription you’ll also get access to the ECML merge which is due another update that will connect it to Leeds. The guys there are doing good work and deserve support. FWIW I’m of the understanding that the merge is not a million miles away. Not imminent, but not lost over the horizon either.
Yeah.. it's looking worthwhile to subscribe to ATS now. There were things I needed in the AP and DTG sales though, so pretty much cleaned myself out this month, but definitely on next month's list of things to do.
They're not separate routes, they're one big route released as multiple phases, so the route as it stands goes from Birmingham New Street in the south to Preston in the North with lines to Liverpool also included (but very few spurs off to other interesting places to the sides.) Phase 4 will add the route into Stoke, phase 4a to Manchester and 5 the Trent Valley line allowing you to bypass BHM altogether
Ok.. now it makes sense, and why Trent valley is only listed as Rugby to Rugely, because it joins to Phase 1.
Personally I would happily see this is "the way forward" with regards to routes, so rather than everything being a single line they pick one origin point and expand from there, that way you would have EVERYTHING that you could do in that one district, branching out as you develop. As it stands at the moment you're basically limited to passenger runs, and none of them very interesting
...and if you haven’t got it I can heartily recommend their Cambridge - Peterborough route (which again is a first phase). I’m really excited about where that will go in time. It’s effectively 50% off if you hold a subscription.
David, I'm not being rude You posted a Statement as a matter of Fact "....they all go via Trent Valley" I just pointed out you were wrong. https://www.realtimetrains.co.uk/train/Y31239/2021-01-21/detailed is one example There is normally more but due to Covid they have been thinned out but there is normally an hourly service to Carlisle and alternate hours to Edinburgh or Glasgow More timetables on the DPS site Peter
It's not what you say, it's how you say it. You either don't realise it... or maybe you do... (shrug).
The specific comment to you was "Have a look at a Timetable before giving out wrong information" If you are going to tell people something you should check your facts
Any chance you could back date the Edinburgh Glasgow route... PLEEEEEEEEASE...??? With sprinkles on... I'm dying to drive a proper train on it... not the modern day fizz...!!! Eric
By coincidence I've been driving that route today using the AP Mk2 F DBSO for the push pulls with a Class 47 at the other end. I cannot find any references as to how these trains were configured. Being a Southern Region man, (although with Scottish blood) I backdate Southern routes to the 1950/60s era. What era do you have in mind?
Why does a route need to be backdated to drive an older train on it? What does a route have to be up to date to drive a modern train? Have people not heard of special trains?
One word. Realism Some people just prefer to drive period trains on period tracks with period buildings and period signals
From this thread https://www.railforums.co.uk/threads/47-7-push-pulls.129282/#post-2528240 Mark 3 rakes used on the Edinburgh - Glasgow shuttles were typically formed DBSO - CO - 3/4 x TSOs - Class 47 The CO was a Composite Open - Half First Class and Half Second Class I seem to think somebody did a reskin but I cannot find it Peter
The general DBSO / Scotrail era is what I'd like in my little selfish world...!!! Eric Watch out for cows at Polmont though!!!
Thank you for the link Peter, that has now got me interested in the 27 push pull era.. ntypeman, surely the Scotrail era would mean acres of weed grown disused sidings. Would know about signalling, I prefer semaphores. )
Cat... to be honest I've no idea about the weed grown disused sidings, what appeals to me is that I read an article ages ago about the 47/7s and the fact that they were thrashed to the hilt... Flat out acceleration and last second full on braking, not perfect conditions but probably realistic... That's what I'd like to have a crack at but in a scenario situation... Unfortunately making scenarios or route building / amending aren't my strong points... Eric
You can get a free 47/7 here, scroll down the page. It has an easy installer then you can thrash it QD. https://www.vulcanproductions.co.uk/diesel.html#
Only one problem... It needs the VT 1st gen pack which I haven't got and is no longer available... Cue Dunkrez... Eric
The BR Blue 47 Pre 1985 is further down the list and only needs the European Assets and the AP 47 soundpack.
Cheers Cat... I'll have a look at it later... Just having a thrash in a 37 from Great Yarmouth to Lowestoft at the mo... Eric
I think it depends on the route, some routes lend themselves far better than others. I tend to drive older trains on more modern routes but being a purist in general I select the routes carefully. The North Wales Coast and Wherry Lines seem to have not changed too much from the early 90's. The Chatham route has changed quite a lot so that doesn't work well, although I have made a scenario driving a NSE class 415 to Orpington. I recently created a service on WCML over Shap going to Morecombe and thought "Morecombe doesn't look like the photo's I have seen" and on researching found out that a totally new station was built in a different spot in 1994. That is a bit too much of a change really and now my 1988 set scenario seems quite superfluous now! It would be great to see more backdated routes but due to the dearth of BR blue period routes in TS1 you have to improvise a bit with the more modern routes. Often when you populate a route with older trains you can start to immerse yourself in a different era.
Wherry Lines got a huge upgrade in 2020, so all the cute manual levels crossings and I believe analogue signals are now replaced with modern equivalents, but I know what you mean, the more rural routes seem to retain their charm (and thus drivability) for a lot longer than more urban ones where the scenery changes more quickly
Oh yes apologies, I wasn't very clear. I meant the Wherry lines route as built by AP seems suitable for early 90's scenarios, for example, I base them when Norwich had a batch of Regional Railways liveried 101's. Certainly a new version of the Wherry Lines would not be suitable. But yes rural routes are generally better as they haven't changed much although that will change over the next few years sadly I think the Semaphore signalling near me in Worcester and Shrewsbury won't be around for much longer. The Welsh Marches is another example as that still has semaphore signalling around Shrewsbury, although I think Newport station had some alterations in the last few years and I think the signalling on the South Wales mainline is LED where back in the 80's and 90's it was the conventional coloured light. Us BR fans need to use, what I believe is called in the model railway world modellers licence.
I've heard somewhere that due to the complexity of the lines and signals around Shrewsbury that it'll be analogue from the big signal box for a while to come yet
I'm just into Stafford with my Birmingham 2010 freeware route, will be going on to WCML Crewe soon.... WCML I start at Nuneaton train leaving Milford tunnel north portal....
