What Will The First Steam Locomotive Be?

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by Iskra, Jan 12, 2021.

  1. Iskra

    Iskra Active Member

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    Now steam is announced as coming, what steam locomotive do you think will be the first to be released in TSW2?

    Personally, I think it will be a GWR Pannier on the West Somerset, which would be pretty cool.

    What do you think?

    Do you think a new steam route will be forthcoming, what would you like to see?
     
  2. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    It could literally be anything. I'd personally like to see a large LNER tank engine like a V1, V3 or L1 (though that's because I'm from the NE), although a bit tricky given none of those examples exist today (they were all scrapped). However, I fully expect the first route to just be either a mainline with railtours or a heritage line.
     
  3. Iskra

    Iskra Active Member

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    I do like those LNER tanks!

    I suppose a GWR tender loco could feature on WSR and GWE so could make sense.
    There's also the possibility of a Terrier steam loco for the Isle of Wight line.

    If it's railtour related a Black 5 wouldn't be a bad shout.
     
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  4. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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  5. Kazick

    Kazick Member

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    Well looking at how things are going. None.
     
  6. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    So they're building tech for something everyone wants but when the tech's built they're going to just sweep it under the rug and ignore it?
     
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  7. Kazick

    Kazick Member

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    I doubt they are building the tech in the first place.
     
  8. Blacknred81

    Blacknred81 Well-Known Member

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    Most likely something UK based, since any new references could be done locally with the current pandemic.

    I would like to see something US based, but that may be quite a few years off. (Unless a 3rd party studio steps in)
     
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  9. nwp1

    nwp1 Well-Known Member

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    Great to hear that steam is coming soon to TSW2. Something to drive on West Somerset and Great Western please.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2021
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  10. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Then why is it under "In production" on the roadmap?
     
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  11. a.paice

    a.paice Well-Known Member

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    I’d imagine they’d start somewhere small like a tank engine.

    From a player standpoint it will be easier to drive as the controls & gauges will be closer together, there will be better visibility and for developers it will make modelling the outside valve gear and connecting rods simpler.

    My guess would be something like a Jinty or Pannier tank but I’ll be interested to see.
     
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  12. Kazick

    Kazick Member

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    I see you believe that. When I see a screen shot from a dev of a steam locomotive in TSW then I'll believe it. Until then its just wishful thinking that them "working on it."
     
  13. Jamy

    Jamy Well-Known Member

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    I hope there easier to drive than the ones in train simulator, I could never get the hang of them
     
  14. Mkdog45

    Mkdog45 Well-Known Member

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  15. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Alright, if that's what you think, but I'd highly doubt they'd put something that major on the roadmap (and then go on to publish another article specifically talking about it with a footnote saying they'll be giving updates) if they weren't certain it's happening.

    I'd imagine they'll not be any "easier". The trouble is steam trains in TS1 lack a descent, in depth tutorial on driving them.
     
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  16. JZJ90

    JZJ90 Active Member

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    I agree. I love the look of steam engines, British ones at least, but in TSxxxx my experience with them was usually listening to very loud hissing sounds, managing to occasionally get to about 5mph and having no clue what I was doing!

    My biggest hope for steam will be ease of driving (for those who want it) and a lot of tutorials/information on how to operate the beauties.
     
  17. Kazick

    Kazick Member

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    You must have missed the original TSW1 announcement video where they promised all sorts of things and then didn't deliver. Like when Matt said, and this is a direct quote, "There will absolutely be multiplayer." Or the whole 2 hour live stream showing off the route editor, that they then never delivered on. So they can put it on a road map but until it's DLC I can buy I am not going to hold my breath or get any sort of excited.
     
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  18. Iskra

    Iskra Active Member

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    This article hints, that it won't be a preserved route, but a proper steam era route.

    'When I think about steam trains there's preserved or heritage rail which are superb, but what I really want is steam in its natural environment'

    ...I'm up for that! The Port Road/Western Line of Scotland was one of my favourite routes in Train Simulator
     
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  19. dogeconfirmed113

    dogeconfirmed113 Member

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    In my opinion the pannier tank or black 5 would be the most likely option for the first steam locos, I can imagine dovetail getting out quite a few British steam locos before moving on to European and American locos.
     
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  20. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    If they make a route in the 50s including Crewe hopefully it will use the new GWE tech of having different eras so they can make say that part of the WCML and we can play it in the Steam era and in the modern era.
     
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  21. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    Actually I remember it vividly and I also remember being genuinely red faced and wanting to throttle everyone at the company when Sam said they'll never bring an editor. The fact they're still talking about MP shows to me that they haven't delivered on that announcement yet. There's also no real major licensing limitations to prevent Steam, unlike an editor. DTG also had a very different approach to PR - back then it very much was the case that until it releases it may not be a thing, now Sam's been very adamant that anything DTG says is a guarantee, otherwise what's the point in a roadmap?
     
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  22. Kazick

    Kazick Member

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    Ah the good old licensing argument for why there is no editor, because the ground to copyright protected.

    With how DTG was in the past, I still wont believe the roadmap until I see DLC I can buy. They can put all kinds of things on the roadmap and be like "yes this is 100% in the works." But that could mean anything. Its on the roadmap could mean they talked about it once in a meeting. Its on the roadmap could mean they made some drawings a white board. Its on the roadmap could mean they have someone working on assets. Its on the roadmap could mean they are testing. Its on the roadmap could mean it could release tomorrow.

    Like I said, I wont be holding my breath until I see a steam store page for it.
     
  23. Clumsy Pacer

    Clumsy Pacer Well-Known Member

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    That's not the licensign argument regarding the editor - the license is the one with Epic Games, but whatever. I think we'll have to agree todisagree and I'll quietly leave this thread.
     
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  24. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    I'm inclined to think that Paul's desire for a fullblown steam ecosphere from decades ago is aspirational, a goal to reach for, but DTG is going to start more modestly. To me that implies 1) a UK loco, because it's much easier to go study a real one if it's close to home; 2) a model which is currently operating on a heritage railway or pulling railfan tours, because they would want to study a real one in operation; 3) a relatively small and simple one, a tank shunter most likely; and 4) for the very first release, a loco DLC usable on any existing UK route as a "heritage train," because it would be one hell of a big project to create a whole route with new vintage assets throughout and multiple steam locos all at one go.
     
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  25. spicemaster

    spicemaster Member

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    Pretty sure it will be something on the WSR route.
     
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  26. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    My thoughts are something for WSR, or the Isle of Wight. Although I’m hoping for Bluebell... :)
     
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  27. Rail Runner

    Rail Runner Well-Known Member

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    Something American eventually would be cool to try like a small 2-6-0 tender loco, but I’m personally hoping British.
     
  28. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    I noticed Paul mentioned 'Preserved' fairly early on before "Ideally...". So yeah, wouldn't be surprised if the first one was preserved. I hope we get a new route with it though. (And I hope its not a preserved but the sort of scenario that he described, probably wishful thinking though)
     
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  29. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I am looking forward to any Steam engine to TSW2. Some of my fondest runs in TS20XX were making a run with a heavy freight with the finely detailed FEF over a grade, manually firing and driving. Diesels, and Electrics are fine, but nothing beats the challenge of successfully driving a steam locomotive.
     
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  30. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    My most enjoyable TS time was in the Cab of a Smokebox creation, usually the FEF, but often the Connie as well.

    I hope that TSW can bring the same level of craftsmanship and detail to this steam project. I don’t know if there are plans to involve Smokebox, but with the Big Boy project finishing up, it could be a good time to see if he is willing.
     
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  31. LT586

    LT586 Well-Known Member

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    Flying Rastafarian
     
  32. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    I think a steam gala DLC for West Somerset is extremely likely, would require some reworking I'm sure, but it's the only route that steam locos would make a lot of sense for at the moment. And would be a good way to use that new multi timetable function coming with the GWR pack. Afterwards I suspect a steam era route like Riviera Line in the Fifties will be added. Also if they're gonna put in the effort for steam I imagine they're gonna want to include something with the yearly refresh of TSW2 as it could draw a lot of new people in. So I suspect one of the two will be included with TSW 2022, or whatever it's gonna be called.
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
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  33. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    I also think they will put steam engines into West Somerset first. Also british content is the closest one we have to the steam era so it can be used together in the future, like the MK1 coaches, vans or the diesels. This route has both the turntable and the water tanks already included, which are also important assets for the operation of steam engines. I wouldn't expect any route yet, at least upon initial steam release. If they didn't include it on the roadmap it's not in development nor planned in short time I guess.

    Cheers
     
    Last edited: Jan 13, 2021
  34. Redbus

    Redbus Well-Known Member

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    I do hope it will be possible to separate the roles of driver and fireman. I never really liked the implementation in TS1; no way to learn firing without having to drive at the same time, and firing itself was far from pedagogic. You were never really told what you should be doing or what to look out for.

    I believe a simple engine like a GW pannier tank on WSR will be the first DLC as a test bed.
     
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  35. stijn.claessens

    stijn.claessens Well-Known Member

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  36. Mich

    Mich Well-Known Member

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    I think people are overestimating how much effort it will take to make a steam engine. The difficult part I suspect is doing the engine upgrades, once that's done I reckon they won't be a ton more difficult to make than other type. So I don't expect it to be some small single engine DLC, my guess is it will be launched alongside a full route, or a pack in the lines of the 70's GWR pack, like with the WSR Steam Gala pack I was speculating earlier.

    I don't think whatever loco they do will necessarily be something small like a Pannier, on the contrary I suspect a decent sized tender engine is very likely. From what I can remember I don't think anything they currently have in the sim draws fuel from another railcar like a tender. If I'm correct that might mean they don't currently have support for it, and for steam engines that's something they're gonna need, so I see them developing a tender engine so they can have that functionality for the future. Also smaller engines aren't necessarily easier to operate, on the contrary due to the bigger engines tending to be newer they often were just as easy, if not easier to operate than smaller counterparts.

    One final thing, I'm a tad annoyed that nobody seems to be taking the time to list anything that currently runs on the actual bloody WSR, so I did a quick check. West Somerset seems to have a 0-4-0 tank engine, a GWR 2-6-0, and a GWR 4-6-0 in service on the hand, So assuming this is still up to date I suspect that a steam gala pack would contain the 0-4-0, and one of the GWR engines, as well as a completely new steam gala themed timetable. I doubt anything not owned by them will appear, all the diesels for WSR are ones that they own, and operate on the WSR proper, so I suspect same logic applies with steam. So I don't think any guest engines will appear, nor do I think engines which they do own, but are physically at other railways will appear.
     
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  37. Rudolf

    Rudolf Well-Known Member

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    It should be a Dutch steam engine from UK origin. Maybe the Hoorn-Medemblik route would be nice for a first steam route. It is a fantastic heritage line now, but why not set it in the thirties of last century? Would be awesome and a good demo that there is more in the world of trains outside the UK .... When this is finished, I would love to see US steam routes.
     
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  38. geloxo

    geloxo Well-Known Member

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    Be careful with your dreams as we may end having something not very fancy to drive like the Dewitt. With DTG everthing is possible... Remember TSW2 exe file is still named "prototype" :o:D

    DeWitt_Clinton_(locomotive).jpg

    Cheers
     
  39. theorganist

    theorganist Well-Known Member

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    My money would be on Raveningham Hall. Probably one of the WSR's better known locomotives plus it has been mainline registered in the past.

    Caledonian Works for TS1 have just produced a roadmap for up until 2025! Amongst the dozens of locomotives on the roadmap many are long extinct. There is infact an Thompson L1 on there, obviously some compromise will have to be made with sounds but Steam Sounds Supreme who will be making the sounds always manage to find a way, so it will sound something like if not exact. So, never say never all things are possible.

    I suspect the first steam will be for the WSR and/or mainline railtour. I hope a period steam route, well routes really won't be too far behind. My main interest is UK steam but it would be great to steam from around the world eventually too.
     
  40. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Just to toss in my 2 cents: I think the first one is going to be from Britain. Apart from the upcoming Clinchfield line, we only really have historic stuff from the UK. WSR comes to mind if the first steamer will be a loco dlc without its own route.

    German steam would be a double first. First steam loco and first historic German content (at least if they don‘t do something like the DR Br 18 201 which is technically still running today). I‘d love it, but I highly doubt we‘ll get it.

    I think NA steam locos are more likely than German steam locos for now, but it faces the same issues as Germany. No real historic content yet. I don‘t think Clinchfield had steam locos at the point it‘s set in, right?

    Tldr: We probably all know the first steamer is going to be a British one.
     
  41. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    There have been steam locos alongside diesels in the US as far as the 1930s (iirc, correct me if I was wrong) until the last steam retired before the 1970s. From Clinchfield (from this site), they retired all of their steam locos up to the 1950s. And wouldn't be surprising if none of them survived.
     
  42. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    But my thought on the first steam loco would definitely be somewhere in the UK at first (Since that's the most easy access Dovetail can get right).
    If it does start as a loco add-on, then WSR is a good starting point as it has right now two operational locos at their site, the Odney Manor and a custom-made GWR Mogul (Which both of them are tender engines). And a perfect opportunity to understand how to work with steam (even if it's a short, slow line for sure).
    But if they do start off with having a route, then let's hope It'll be different than what they made from the TS1 list. As much as I would like to see the old GWR in the steam era (Pannier tanks and Hall Classes am I right), but I'm hoping for something a little more from LNER or LMS (Even BR as well) in the steam era. Just to see some action with the A3s or the 8Fs just for fun.
     
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  43. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Steam was gone in the continental US (not counting some narrow-gauge lines and the odd factory-owned switcher) by 1960. The Alaska Railroad held out until 1964.
     
  44. khalidaliishmail

    khalidaliishmail Active Member

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    I would expect the first steam locomotive to be from the UK, in particular a Stanier 5MT 4-6-0 (Black Five) or Gresley A3 - something that will be readily identifiable even among non-steam fans. I'd particularly like to see a period route from the 50s, even if it means it has to be semi-fictional in its exact track layout, as I think it would be more fun and challenging to drive them in anger having to be on time and sticking to stricter timetables rather than casually plodding along at 25 mph along a heritage railway.

    I would really like to see American steam given the large size of the engines as allowed by the larger loading gauge and weight of rail compared to most other countries. I think the first will likely be something Union Pacific given the notoriety of the railroad. However it would be a shame to only focus on the Union Pacific and the Big Boy because there were a lot of other great US railroads that had large impressive steam engines that in ways surpassed the 4-8-8-4 Big Boy. The Northern Pacific Z-5 class (2-8-8-4) and Northern Pacific Z-8 class (4-6-6-4) for instance both had larger boilers and fireboxes than the Big Boy.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
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  45. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Does that mean it‘s time for my obligatory mention of the PRR T1?:D
    83FEC307-7E13-47CA-BAE8-9F8B7E95380F.jpeg
     
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  46. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Ahem.

     
  47. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    The most powerful of them (not counting experimentals) were either the C&O 2-6-6-6 H8s (7500 drawbar horsepower) or the Great Northern 2-8-8-2 R-2s (162k lbs tractive effort). The heaviest IIRC were the 2-8-8-4 Yellowstones.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
  48. Challenger3985

    Challenger3985 Well-Known Member

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    Ok, yes, I see solicitr. But ARR wasn't the last railroad to retired steam locos (Class Is & IIs, yes. But you forgot about shortlines as well). As the last steam loco to retire from was Magma Arizona railroad in 1968. Luckily, I would've said the only steam loco in the US that's still active (still under the original road mark) is UP's 844. But that's still operational instead of retired.
    Other than that, that was the last steam loco to be retired in the US and have the whole country dieselized completely. Need I say more.

    Plus:
    I was referring to the start of diesels (which I know it was a boxcab) in the US, not when the last steam loco was retired. Just for clarity.
     
    Last edited: Jan 14, 2021
  49. tbaac

    tbaac Well-Known Member

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    I noticed that last night Sam said that there are specific steam locos being worked on (which I wasn't sure about, it was possible that steam was still at the "install the plumbing ready to plug something into it" stage).
    But he also said that nothing will be released for a while :(

    Thanks though DTG, great that things are being developed.

    edit: Sam may not have suggested that multiple locos are being worked on, can't remember.
     
  50. Jannerdunk

    Jannerdunk Well-Known Member

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    I would much rather DTG tried something small and simple first, like a tank engine and do it well, rather than try to do something like the Bigboy and do it badly. I would love to see the Corris route in TSW and its a pity the IOW has not got the steam section of track.

    I wouldn't be surprised if steam is the big feature of the next annual release which presumably is due late summer or autumn.
     

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