Lack Of Dynamic World Lighting & Speculation

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by londonmidland, Jan 15, 2021.

  1. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Branching off from another forum I commented in here, I thought I’d create a new, separate thread, to stop it getting clogged up.

    To recap, I compared Fernbus Simulator, which also uses UE4, to see how it copes with its dynamic lighting compared to TSW. Specifically it’s night lighting.

    Long story short, it copes with it a lot better compared to TSW.

    Tinfoil hat time:
    By no means is this correct or reliable, but I’m just putting my two pence in it as to why I believe why we don’t have it in TSW.

    I believe that night time in TSW is artificially made brighter so that the developers don’t have to place down so many lights, as the world is already (unrealistic) partially lit up. The issue with this is that it quite simply looks poor and doesn’t represent the real world lighting environments. Such as light and light pollution in cities and the darkness of countryside areas. This creates the illusion of the world lighting being the ‘same’ looking everywhere as well as being ‘flat’.

    So, how do we fix this issue?
    The only way I believe night lighting can look and feel natural is if it is set up as dark in the first place. Not cutting corners and make it artificially brighter. To do this, we would need a lot more dynamic lights, such as higher intensity street lights, building and house lights, as well as lights from other light sources. By it being naturally dark, this allows places like the countryside to look a lot more darker. If you’ve ever driven through the countryside at night in TSW, you’ll notice how unnaturally light it looks, as if you’re driving through a city.

    Lighting issues below:
    The issue of artificially brightening night time scenes is clearly demonstrated below. The sky may be dark, but the snowy ground still looks like it is being lit by the sun. Also note there is virtually no proper lighting, apart from a few dim street lights. Even more bizarrely there is not one single house which is lit. Are they all abandoned or something?
    upload_2021-1-15_16-30-23.png



    Here are a few screenshots below from Fernbus Simulator to show the differences between countryside and city lighting:
    69486DBF-70F2-46F1-8AF0-9389CE0BC345.jpg D57054AE-9C6B-4340-87CD-F5C1913E3B00.jpg F02E0757-39E7-4609-9516-37038FA30AFB.jpg
     
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  2. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Making it dark like it should be and artificial lights such as house lights, street lights that might be in a route could solve this problem
     
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  3. Snek

    Snek Well-Known Member

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    Wow that sim nailed it pretty well, it actually looks realistic. I'd love to see improvements on this in tsw. I agree, there definitely should be more dynamic lighting and it should load from further away than it does now, but I imagine that would be much more resource demanding and we all know how DTG goes about that.
    But to be fair, nighttime will never look completely realistic as our eyes can't adapt to the screen and notice slight differences (shapes) in the dark.
     
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  4. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I agree that the night lighting is problematic - was even so in the TS- classic to where Armstrong PowerHouse released lighting dlc to make the night darker and then another to add station lights — While it helped - the lack of dynamic lighting other than the stations made the rural areas pitch black - unrealistically so.

    I would like to see the improvements you suggest - just wonder what performance impact, if any, it would add seeing some are having performance problems all ready.
     
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  5. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the performance issues this may cause, however it seems like they’re very reluctant to add anything new in graphical wise. If you don’t try, you don’t get.

    I mean, isn’t that one of the main purposes of UE4, and more specifically upgrading the engine version?
     
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  6. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    It won't be ultra realistic but dtg can get it pretty close. They haven't even addressed or try to fix the night time lighting issues that alot of people have talked about. They should at the very least try. In terms of performance, wasn't the whole point of upgrading the engine is to improve the game performance wise as well so how many more times are we gonna hear the same excuses over and over again if they haven't even addressed this issue
     
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  7. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    Have you done the Heavy Metal scenario on RSN? Black as the abyss, with pouring rain.
     
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  8. BR125

    BR125 Well-Known Member

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    Nighttime could make alot more use of static baked lighting to negate the performance impact.

    I dont imagine they'll do anything about it though.
     
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  9. jörgen Näslund

    jörgen Näslund Well-Known Member

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    Glad you take up this subject. Graphics in day the TSW is stunning. But but it certainly does not apply in the evening night.
    Fernbus have much much better Graphics in night. And I look in headlight in bus and it is so much better than TSW.
    I hope dovetail sees this and tries to fix it. Now we know that it is not Unreal's wrong that it is so.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
  10. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Night time lighting complaints have been talked about many times so there they must know about the complaints
     
  11. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    Not only is it too bright under certain conditions, but it can also literally be pitch black in other situations as well. The issue isn't one or the other, its that it's horribly inconsistent; in fact I remember there being a similar thread from londonmidland that pointed this out.

    [​IMG]
    Station lighting is all fine and well, but the moment you depart, you'd be plunged into complete darkness. It feels unnatural, especially considering that you're driving through the middle of a dense European city. The lights from the buildings and street lights should definitely illuminate the scene a whole lot more, instead of being the dim glowing objects they currently are now.
    I certainly agree with many things on here, TSW could benefit greatly from a lighting overhaul.
     
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  12. hightower

    hightower Guest

    You’re bang on the money with all this. I’m back on TS2021 again, as once more I got frustrated with TSW and it’s issues. I’ve given up with it as there is nothing I can do to make the game visually better. In very specific circumstances TSW can look great, but ‘occasionally’ is not good enough and in all honesty, the way I have TS2021 set up much of the time it looks far far better than TSW. If only it was on a newer version of Direct X it would be streets ahead.

    I just can’t get excited by any new features in TSW (Steam being one of them) because I know, whatever the loco doing whatever the service, I will still be driving it through a dead world full of poorly lit, flickering, cruddy scenery. It goes without saying that the TGV route was the final straw.

    This stuff isn’t important to everyone but it’s important to me. DTG’s relentless reluctance to improve the visuals in this game has finally got the better of me. When the shadows, lighting and distant scenery are better in a game that is over 10 years old (AP weather & lighting with RWEnhancer granted) something is very wrong indeed. But maybe that’s the problem? It’s taken 3rd parties to make TS2021 look great. DTG never did. Do we have faith that they can buck the trend with TSW? I’m afraid I’m not sure.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2021
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  13. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    hightower, while I respect your opinions , we could not be any farther apart over the visuals of TSW vs TS classic. The visuals starting with the scenery itself is much lower quality in classic especially with older content. The excessive stuttering for scenery loads coupled with many less than accurate renderings of landmarks are rampant in TS classic compared to TSW - Graphically, for me, TSW wins hands down.

    However, I do spend about equally amount of time in TS classic because of the. variety of operations, well designed scenarios, abundance of choice of location as well as of equipment. That being said, except for the Pro-line of locomotives, the operations can be quite “Arcady” - physics are all over the place being very dependent on DLC choice. Even with those limitations, I do enjoy that sim. But feel more immersed in driving a locomotive in TSW with the fully modeled cabs, the interaction with the environment, and yes, for me, the much better graphics.

    So each appeal to me for different reasons, but from reading many of your well written posts, I do not seem to be suffering in TSW from many of the graphical glitches you describe. Either way I find both sims fun.

    best
     
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  14. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Ditto. I fully respect we can differ on this but I firmly believe it’s down to the type of content that we would use in TS2021. You’ll notice that I said “in all honesty, the way I have TS2021 set up much of the time it looks far far better than TSW” which was the crux of my point.

    Stock TS2021 (i.e. DTG’s version) looks every bit as dated as it is. However, that’s not the game I play. I fully accept were it not for the 3rd parties that users of UK content re blessed with, TS would have been consigned to the dustbin in favour of TSW a long time ago.

    However, right now I’m playing a 3rd party scenario on DTG’s WCMLS. It has exclusively 3rd party stock, uses both the AP Sky/Weather and Track Enhancement Packs (which transforms how the game is lit, and how it looks) and my own MOD (which I can do because it has an editor) to bring the billboards etc. into the real world. I also have RWEnhancer Pro setup to make the whole game sing.

    The truth is that it looks as good, if not better, than anything in TSW. It has more variety than TSW. It sounds streets ahead of anything in TSW. Crucially, with AP stock it drives better than anything in TSW, Sim-U-Graph or not.

    That’s all I’m looking for in a Train Sim to be honest. For me, the only things TSW has going for it that TS2021 doesn’t, is that it’s cheaper and more accessible to new users (and consoles). As a train simulation, taking everything into account, it’s still a long way behind TS2021.
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2021
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  15. londonmidland

    londonmidland Well-Known Member

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    Day lighting looks decent, bar of few caveats such as over brightness and/or too much bloom but DTG have completely abandoned any effort with night lighting. It’s like they haven’t tested it properly because it’s clear that there aren’t nearly near enough light sources at night. Even on stations, they can be pretty dark when in reality they’re bright at night.

    I don’t see why they haven’t made any effort to improve this, as it isn’t a new complaint or anything. We’ve been facing this issue for years now with TSW.
     
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  16. LeadCatcher

    LeadCatcher Well-Known Member

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    I do agree - TS-classic gives you way more control and is a much better modding platform. I have almost all the AP catalog as well as an ardent supporter of Steam Sounds Supreme. And with a lot of third party add-ons and patient fiddling you can get TS classic near to or equal to what TSW is out of the box. That is why both simulations have a place on my SSDs and are utilized equally..

    And would applaud any efforts DTG would put toward improving the night lighting as well

    Enjoy - off to make a few runs before I must get to the chores and "Honey-do" list
     
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  17. hightower

    hightower Guest

    Ditto. I’m already making the hot drinks!

    You’re absolutely right. To get the best out of TS is to leap into a money-pit. TSW definitely has that as a big positive going for it.

    That scenario was so good I’ve decided to record it for my YT channel. I’ll pop it here when I release it (will likely be a couple of weeks) for context.

    Enjoy your drives :)
     
    Last edited by a moderator: Jan 16, 2021
  18. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    If they do another Q&A, imma ask them that question with regards to the night lighting. It's been reported many times and nothing has been done to at least try to resolve the issue
     

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