Br 101 Cab Car Poll

Discussion in 'TSW General Discussion' started by nberneck99, Jan 15, 2021.

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  1. Yes I’d only buy if it was included

    80 vote(s)
    59.3%
  2. No

    11 vote(s)
    8.1%
  3. I would buy either way

    44 vote(s)
    32.6%
  1. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    Since it’s been said officially on stream, is it a deal breaker for you if the the DB BR 101 does not come with the IC cab car?

    upload_2021-1-15_14-17-56.jpeg
     
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  2. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    It isn't a deal-breaker as Matt said it would be BR 101 both ends, so same effect. But if the cab-car was a separate DLC then it might look a bit steep. I'd prefer to think of it as an oversight that could be corrected in future.
     
  3. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    I’ll be buying it on sale, if they don’t want to put in 100% effort, I will not be buying at 100% cost.
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  4. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

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    It's a shame it won't have a cab car. However if it has top and tail formation then it can run on HMA, and also they are progressing with memory optimizations with layers (Matt mentioned on the stream tonight its in testing and they are waiting for results). So maybe by the time this is released we can see it it Munich-Augsburg (including consoles).

    Hopefully they can add a cab car in the future as part of a separate update.
     
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  5. Richard CZE

    Richard CZE Well-Known Member

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    Without the driver's car, it could be put into 24h mode of moving the locomotive from one end of the train to the other end. I would definitely buy.
     
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  6. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Doesn't make a difference how long it will be, the only route it will be on is the comically short HRR, this loco will only be useful in the scenario planner.
     
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  7. Thorgred

    Thorgred Active Member

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    they can always make the cab car later available as a mastery reward :P
     
  8. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    No way it only runs on HRR... really really sad, what a shame, it should add IC to almost every german route (it was one of the two stock locos in Hagen-Siegen on TS for example) :(

    At least will the 182 from Hamburg-Lubeck be able to substitute it?

    At this point I'll have to wait to get it on sale as well, what a shame, I loved this loco on TS and was really looking forward to having it in TSW.

    How stupid for me to think this loco was going to add IC to (almost) all routes... as usual my expectations are unreasonably high
     
    Last edited: Jan 15, 2021
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  9. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    We don't know that for sure. But I hope so. The new 182 will probably have LZB, so it can run up to 200kmh. When using repaints, out of this stock a normal ÖBB Intercity/Eurocity could be done (either livery designer or smone makes a repaint)
     
  10. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    Yeah but did MRCE ever haul IC-Coaches in Germany? I've only seen MRCE-locos with the n-Wagen for example
     
  11. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    Not regularly, but I think it happened, there are some old YouTube videos of MRCE taurus hauling ICs in germany, maybe with a little more digging I could find something more concrete though
     
  12. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    As the owner of the RT BR182 I am hoping any extra functionality coming with the MRCE version also applies via an update to the RT one.
     
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  13. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Depending on what they do with the new 182, it might not happen if they have to rebuild the DB one.

    I’m not convinced they’ll make significant improvements however, since most their DLC’s now seem to have 1 new train and a previously released one, slightly different, probably for various ‘DTG’ reasons.
     
  14. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    The reason why it will only run on hrr is because it's the only route where the train would run in real life in the game. Personally a cab car wouldn't make me not want to get it but i'll probably get it on a sale
     
  15. JAAK

    JAAK Member

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    I will definitly buy it, if the sound is very good. I love the sound of the Br 101
     
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  16. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    It also runs on HMA in real life
     
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  17. skyMutt

    skyMutt Well-Known Member

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    Is a top and tailed configuration a common use with the IC coaches? I don't think I've seen it used this way, and it baffles me that they couldn't get the cab car modeled. I really hope that this rumor is untrue, and that we'll see the BR101 running on HMA with a frequent service pattern. Otherwise, its increasingly looking like an unconvincing purchase :(
     
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  18. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    Actually the lack of layers on other routes, or at least HMA, is more of a dealbreaker to me right now. Very iconic loco that is used all over Germany and we get to see it on one of the shortest routes only.
    Don't get me startet on scenario planner, it is not User friendly and takes alot of time if you want to build some engaging runs. And then you play it 3 times and it gets boring because you know even before your first run what you are going to experience and when.
    Does not even come remotely close to a random timetable encounter on your journey.
    So:
    Br 101 +
    Coaches +
    No cab car: -
    No layers: - -
    Wich would leave me negative one and makes it highly likely that I won't buy it at full price. And then DTG comes around again to tell us that they usually make few money of loco dlc. Well don't wonder about that if you cut corners. Baby Bullet had a loco, coaches and cab car, heavy freight pack had three locos, br 182 had loco, coaches and cab car (and not 100% recycled ones, they do differ slightly) so for some reason that did work out for these dlc.

    So I don't see the cab car coming even later on. Was it confirmed that it would not include any layers or was that deduced by the lack of cab car?
     
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  19. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    No, it isn’t common, and Matt confirmed no cab car on stream.

    The top and tail 101 is a lazy way of dealing with return journey issues, but if it’s not going to be on any route other than HRR, I personally don’t see the point.

    This whole lunacy is ridiculous, imagine if we had the DoStos without the cab car.
     
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  20. JustWentSouth

    JustWentSouth Well-Known Member

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    I agree with this.

    For me the value of any loco DLC is directly related to whether I can sub it into other routes through service mode. Having it add layers to other routes is even better.

    This is what makes so much of the German content attractive. I can take a favorite loco, such as the 182, and drive it on 6 different routes. Having a loco restricted to a single route makes it much less desirable.

    I understand that adding layers can be problematic, but I hope that future DLC can at least be substituted into other routes.

    Finally, I would like to emphasize that while scenario planner is a nice feature, it is by no means a substitute for being able to place a loco into the service timetable.
     
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  21. Philipp87

    Philipp87 New Member

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    This cabcar is the face of the "Deutsche Bahn". Everywhere you are in Germany you will see it. So DTG build it for us, please.
    At the moment it is like building a route whitout tracks. You know you need it but it's easier not to include them.

    If it will be a higher price, ok. This cabcar is iconic and worth it.
     
  22. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    This is a big letdown. Almost all Br 101 services run with the cab car. Seeing it without one is rare, seeing top and tail is like a lottery ticket. You can't get rid of the feeling we're getting less content for the same price. Locos and cab cars came together many times (SW1000 and Amfleet cab car, MP36 with a complete train). Why are we now getting only a part of the IC train?
     
  23. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Concerning the comparison between the MP36 add-on and the Br 101:
    I think DTG is not anticipating the Br 101 to do well and that's why they don't invest the time for the cab car. It will only run on HRR (from what we know now), which is not a terribly popular route judging by the forum. HRR is short (can't really appreciate the Br 101 going full speed etc.), no LZB, and no layers (currently).
    Compare that to the MP36. SFJ was a quite popular route with a broad user base (SFJ was part of the base package if I recall correctly). They probably anticipated it to do quite well which is why they invested the time.
     
  24. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I can't get behind the thought that a BR 101 would not do well. It's THE modern loco of the DB Fernverkehr (next to the older iconic BR 103 and BR 120). Who with interest in german routes and locos would not buy it?

    But maybe the cabcar will come with a BR 120 loco add on.

    Also I am especially thrilled for the coaches to use them in the livery designer. You could easly create more or less authentic austrian, dutch, polish, czech, swiss, italian (...) passenger cars. Very looking forward to that!!
     
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  25. JonnE

    JonnE Well-Known Member

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    It's a clear deal breaker for me - at the current state with the limited use, lack of gameplay and missing cab car I would go for it only at 80% off (which obviously has never happened on xbox before).

    Scenario planner is no argument for me since its limited use and it's constantly crashing on my console if I try to add some AI services...

    An unfair comparison: I'll be getting the new Corvette C8 in FH4 today. For free, just have to win some races to unlock it...
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  26. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    So the poll here is kinda interesting. Obviously this is nowhere near representative of the player base but let's you have a few thoughts.
    Since right now the balance is almost 50/50. So from roughly 50 people about 25 will by the dlc regardless if there are no layers/cab cars and 25 people would not buy it with no cab car.
    I understand that the poll does not ask if you were interested in the dlc at all, but from what we have right here we can say that from a potential 100% buy rate from people interested in the Loco, DTG has already lost 50% of potential sales by not doing the cab car.
     
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  27. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I agree, it runs for sure on RSN* and HMA. I think it also runs on RRO and a short section of RT, and also on SKA

    *no it doesn't
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  28. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    Sorry, but this is just the wrong way to look at it, if they don’t expect it to do well, they wouldn’t bother, but I guarantee you that it would of done well with proper layering and the cab car, the 101 is just as iconic as the ICE with it’s IC services, pair that with how well the German content sells, and you have a winner here, or you would have if it was done properly.

    It will probably still sell well because like I say, it’s the BR 101, but I can only hope that there are many like me, who will withhold purchasing this DLC, or waiting for a cut price.
     
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  29. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    The poll needed an option for people who would buy on sale, but I think that this issue needs as much exposure as possible so I don’t mind that it doesn’t.

    We’re all used to DTG not going the mile with their content, but this has to be one of the most shameful examples of doing so.
     
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  30. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

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    I mean its kinda the equivalent of if they'd included the Dostos and RE/RB services without including the Dosto cab car, which would be pretty shocking to say the least. It won't be a deal breaker for some but it will be for many. Top and tail services with layers for most of the routes it should be on (HMA, RRO) would be ok. If it comes without these layers then its gonna be a big no from me - I hope by the time it is released the memory optimization updates are out and consoles will have layers then I think we will see them. If there are no layers at release time I probably would never get it until they are added. HRR is just a laughably short route, people talk about how Ruhr-Sieg Nord and Rhein Ruhr Osten should be joined, but there are so few services that use both routes together, HRR should be a priority to be extended, yes its got some parallel running and its kinda busy but the length and choice of ends are just confusing.

    We have already managed to convince them to change it from being on Koln-Aachen (a confusing choice as well) by talking about it here and streams etc, so hopefully we can talk about it enough on here to convince them to build a cab car with it. I'd prefer that (+layers) even if it meant a delay of a month or two. They seem to have a good relationship with Deutsche Bahn so getting plenty of research and references should be no problem even though they can't go to Germany themselves right now. As CK95 says, the DB BR 101 with the intercity services + cab car is almost as iconic as the ICE is, it deserves a proper release.
     
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  31. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    I’m afraid also with the loco being released on HRR that it might not be equipped with LZB:/
     
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  32. nberneck99

    nberneck99 Well-Known Member

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    this sums up all the major issues with this release I think, because with the 101 you think longer fast services in between cities...and HRR just makes me think of short commuter runs. The cab car is as iconic to the IC trains as the loco itself.
     
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  33. mclitke

    mclitke Well-Known Member

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    The core-tech for LZB is done, no reason to not implement it. I would not worry about that.

    From what I understood it was never intended for SKA, it was just a msitake that has been carried over for weeks. DTG has set release windows, I very much doubt they will delay the dlc in order to build the cab car. Apart from the uncertainty regarding propbable layers in sandwich set-up, don't expect to get any more than we know right now for release.
     
  34. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I love HRR, I don't mind the short lenght because IMO it's enough for the kind of services that run there (especially the S-Bahn are long enough for me), but it surely is not long enough for these kind of IC services, which I assume will only be Duigsburg-Essen-Buchum, then the journey times will definitely be too short to be enjoyable, togheter with the fact it won't be usable on any other route, and the lack of a cab car makes this DLC much more unattractive, I am even thinking of skipping it entirely, just like HMA... it's not worth the money because there is not enough content to justify the purchase. As soon as it gets added to longer, more appropriate routes or a cab car will be added I will consider it again.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  35. Mr JMB

    Mr JMB Well-Known Member

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    Currently, a loco DLC that added additional service layer to HMA would only work for people on PC who had bought HMA, so a very small number of people. (less than 30% of the playerbase)

    You have to wonder, - once they are fixed- whether there is even room for anything else given how many layers are added from previous DLCs. I assume the 420 will just substitute for the 423 and/or will be held back until layers are fixed.
     
  36. tubefan1973

    tubefan1973 Well-Known Member

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    I think they should do a Cab Car and sell it with a EuroShed (Class 66 body with different cab and that is it)
     
  37. tubefan1973

    tubefan1973 Well-Known Member

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    does HRR have LZB IRL?
     
  38. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    After watching some of Matt‘s stream, I have to agree with you. Matt specifically said that in addition to the cab car being a lot of work, getting references for it in this time is difficult. I happily admit defeat and put down my tin foil hat.
    New hypothesis: As HRR doesn‘t require you to change ends (as HMA would, for example), the effort of getting references for the cab car in addition to the challenge of then actaually building it was probably not deemed worth the effort. While the cab car is iconic, it‘s not as strongly linked to the Br 101 in my head as it is for others, it would seem. I am biased though as I‘m mainly interested in freight. Maybe DTG saw it more like me and didn‘t see that strong connection?
     
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  39. Monder

    Monder Well-Known Member

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    There are no sections with more than 160 km/h and LZB was very expensive to set up, so no, it isn't anywhere on HRR.
     
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  40. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    AIUI, LZB equipment is one of the requirements for a track to be rated for more than 160- PzB can't handle speeds greater than that.
     
  41. CK95

    CK95 Well-Known Member

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    You almost never see a BR 101 IC service without a cab car, the same way that you don't see dostos without cab cars.

    i'm not saying that Matt is lying about not having enough reference material, but if that is truly the case then they should not of attempted this DLC until they could do so correctly, there has to be virtually no chance that they were not aware they could not make the cab car when they planned this DLC.

    Now we will forever be stuck with the 101 without a cab car, thus making it non usable on almost every German route we have.
     
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  42. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

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    I mean DTG have repeatedly stated in recent streams that getting research and references during the pandemic hasn't been an issue. I would be very surprised if they couldn't get them from Deutsche Bahn (who they seem to have a very good relationship with judging by how they talk about DB drivers helping them with references and sound recording). I'm pretty sure they also have done a DB Cab car for TS classic (I haven't driven it but I've seen it on Koln-Koblenz). So they possibly already have the research. Also if it is coming with the IC passenger cars, not any new freight wagons (which a freight train usually comes with), the whole "they thought about freight" argument doesn't really have a leg to stand on.

    With regards to layers, there's a decent chance the memory optimization may be released by the time the 101 is released, in which case adding the layers wouldn't be an issue.
     
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  43. tallboy7648

    tallboy7648 Well-Known Member

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    Maybe the pandemic made it difficult for them to get references or maybe not
     
  44. matinakbary

    matinakbary Well-Known Member

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    I'm not the "If this and that is not there, I'm not going to buy it and boycott DTG"-type. But if the BR 101 is not equipped with LZB, this would be a dealbreaker even for me. I can't believe this is going to happed because they have the LZB-Tech and all new TSW 2 locos (BR 403, BR 406, BR 423) had PZB were equipped with LZB. But pls DTG, do not make this big mistake.
     
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  45. solicitr

    solicitr Well-Known Member

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    There are no IC services on RSN. The only passenger runs are the RE16 and RB91
     
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  46. Lamplight

    Lamplight Well-Known Member

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    Might be worth trying to get answers on Stream. After Matt already revealed this stuff in a private stream, Sam‘s “we‘re not talking about future releases“ would ring a bit hollow. Don‘t think we‘ll get more details, but may be worth a shot, I mean, the forums are lighting up like a chritmas tree right now as far as I can tell.
     
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  47. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    I never thought DTG was just lazy, I just said that a BR101 that can only do a ~20 minutes run without even a cab car is not worth €13.99 when for the same price I can get a lot more, the same problem as HMA.

    I realize that adding layers can be difficult because of the memory problems, but if they plan to expand the number of routes this loco will add layers to in the future, I'll be happy to buy this DLC as soon as these changes are made.
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
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  48. FD1003

    FD1003 Well-Known Member

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    My source was the fact that this loco was included on the Hagen-Siegen route in TS, so I admit it might have not been the best source, so I checked on the DB website and you are right. Sorry for telling wrong informations, I will edit my comment
     
    Last edited: Jan 16, 2021
  49. Doomotron

    Doomotron Well-Known Member

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    From what I can gather, there isn't a route in TSW2 that the BR101 truly makes sense on. I'd prefer it if they'd delay it for a while, make the cab car and then bundle both with a route they'd be useful on.
     
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  50. Articuno

    Articuno Well-Known Member

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    What does "truly makes sense on" mean? If you mean it does regular services on a route (with a cab car), then Munchen-Augsburg, Rhein-Ruhr Osten and Hauptstrecke Rhein Ruhr do make sense? If you mean without a cab car, then there's nowhere it does this regularly which is kinda the point of this thread.

    I think it's clear people want three things from the DB BR 101 (at least one of which will be a dealbreaker for many):
    1) To have it with the IC Cab car, which it runs almost everywhere with.
    2) To run it on more than the HRR route, which is generally considered much too short (especially for this kind of service).
    3) LZB

    If you want it to come with a new route, maybe something like Koln-Koblenz would be interesting?
     
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