Bnsf's Seligman Sub

Discussion in 'Suggestions' started by pschlik, Oct 11, 2017.

  1. pschlik

    pschlik Well-Known Member

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    The Seligman Subdivision is another one of those routes that grabs my attention. That's because it is a heavy duty mainline that doesn't fit that stereotype of "slow, boring mountain pass."

    The Seligman Subdivision goes from Needles CA to Winslow AZ (a length of around 300 miles) but many times in the past route creators would do just one side, stopping at Seligman, which acts as the halfway point, putting the typical recreation of the Seligman Sub's length at around 150 miles, and around a 3 hour drive. Which, though long, is a lot of wilderness, and if done later on the lifespan of TSW (no way I expect this now!) could be easily manageable. Unfortunately, there is not much of a reason to do anything shorter than 150 miles due to the infrequent civilized locations.

    For those who don't know, this is part of the very, very popular rail network of the Southwest, as it eventually connects to the well-known Cajon Pass. Theoretical expansions for a Seligman route could get all the way to Barstow, providing more of the fast paced and busy action known of the line.

    Now, I think it should go without saying that TSW should try to represent big deal parts of the transcontinental lines, they are super busy (usually 100 huge trains every day!), feature Amtrak's long distance trains, and it is hard to go wrong with any part of the transcon.
    I think Seligman would be a good portion of the Southern Transcon to model due to the tough and impressive driving it can offer. The scenery might not be much to check out, but the trains are massive, overpowered (often above 3.5 hp/ton), and the route sees freight limits of 70 mph for a lot of the line, while still playing host to some 1% and up grades; which is a really "unusual" combo in the minds of many TS'ers. It would be a great opportunity to get in some real extreme American railroading.

    [​IMG]
    Height map of the line. Whole thing is 293 miles, Seligman is right at the 150 mile mark. The route is a lot of uphill-not the usual "up then down" setup-on the Needles side. The Winslow side is more typical up then down. Despite this, both sides are still quite fast.

    [​IMG]
    Basic overview of the shape of the line-except the line off from Williams Jct, that usually isn't included. But Williams itself is just off the mainline, and would be a worthy expansion. Despite the squiggles, the route is surprisingly fast. The Winslow side has more industry, with more trees and less shrubs, but the Needles side has track setups that are more interesting, and feel like they have a reason to be slower, while also mixing in those high speed segments. (But, Winslow itself is more busy than Needles. Pick a side I guess, it is up to DTG in the end.)

    [​IMG]
    GEs and huge intermodal trains dominate the line, and as such Seligman could is a good opportunity to include BNSF ES44DCs, ES44ACs, [ES44C4s if you are ambitious, but they are all so similar, why not add them all?] and Dash 9s. ET44C4s could be a DLC possibility. Intermodal equipment and containers would be the focus of rolling stock, and with some improvements to what we already have, could make even a typical container train different every time.
    And maybe one road switcher for yard work (GP60s seem to be the ones of choice due to higher speed from more horsepower than SD40s), but the real focus of Seligman is the mainline.

    [​IMG]
    ATSF would be a fantastic DLC opportunity, as it certainly got very little attention in TS1, and just about everything ATSF ran on Seligman, especially notably the superfleet locomotives, like these B40-8Ws here. And there's always the ex-ATSF Dash 9 you'll no doubt see on BNSF lines.

    [​IMG]
    And, of course, the Southwest Chief. Reasonable to include by default, or add as DLC. Lots of 79 mph running, and the potential to be used in other popular routes, if/when they were to get added.

    And a video of the area for viewing pleasure. Hint: it's a lot of GEVOs and containers.

    Some of those other videos are interesting too, worth a check out.
     
    Last edited: Mar 3, 2018
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  2. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    Definitely needs to be done. Kingman, AZ also has an old ATSF 3700 4-8-4. That needs to be included. Maybe the #3751 could be a DLC as well.
     
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  3. BlitzRail

    BlitzRail New Member

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    If they made even half the route it would be incredible! Nothing but immersion for miles. This I could go for definitely. Maybe DTG could plan to introduce the P42DC with a route like this :D. Surprised we didn't see it come with Sand Patch upon CSX heavy haul's release.
     
  4. jedi247

    jedi247 Well-Known Member

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    I agree with the P42DC. We need the SW Chief. For freight action, we need a GE ET44C4 or ES44AC/DC/C4, a GP60 for switching, and maybe the ATSF 4-8-4 #3751 for excursion trains.
     
  5. Rail Master

    Rail Master Active Member

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    A route like CSX: HH , full of Powerful trains? The best route proposal I’ve see!
    I would even see Santa Fe and the old Amtrak at TSW. Great proposal.
     
  6. RailWorkshop

    RailWorkshop Member

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    BNSF have licensing issues to be sold outside USA!
     
  7. Michael Newbury

    Michael Newbury Well-Known Member

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    They could go two different ways with this. the first would be to make a branded for those in the US and a unbranded version for the rest like they did in TS19 with the Raton Pass. The second route would be to just make a unbranded version for all and people can skin the locos themselves.
     
  8. raildan

    raildan Well-Known Member

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    DTG has said a few things that suggest they don't want to bring unbranded content into TSW. I';m not just saying this becasue there hasn't been any- I remember one of them saying something like this earlier. Overall, they feel that no logos detracts too much from the experience in TSW (more so than in tS19), which I can kind of see TBH. Because of that, I wouldn't expect any official BNSF content for TSW for a while... unofficially, though, people have already started doing BNSF skins.
     
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